iceman vs storm

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Superman couldn't even fly when he was conceived. Graviton couldn't create blackholes when he was conceived. Spider-Man can now create organic "

Superman, was the generic Superhero. Every superhero worth their salt had flying ability then.

You're avoiding the point - the point is that you're criticizing Iceman and X-men exceeding their original capabilities as if it's somehow unique to them. Superman started off as a guy who could run faster than a train, and could only jump high. He can now fly at flight speed and move planets. If that's not an example of him exceeding his original potential, then I can't help you.

Gravity is part of black holes.

Spider-Man can create organic webs. Whilst I think that's a BS and don't agree with it really, given the history, I can see why it's done.

You can see how that happened MORE than you can see Iceman going from generating ice to changing temperatures? Ridiculous.

Ice-Man went from throwing snow to freezing blood in veins.

He went from being able to freeze water molecules in the air to create ice objects and to cover himself in ice (which he's always done) to being able to freeze water molecules in things other than the air. Not that much of a stretch.

"Thanos was beaten by Spider-Man and taken away in handcuffs by the police!!! C'mon man...be reasonable."

As proven in the other thread, you obviously feel you have to accept shit writing. I don't.

But it's not shit writing. EVERY Thanos appearance was like that. For YEARS. He just wasn't conceived as a bigwig until the 80s.

"Nothing silly about it at all. People often don't know their potential until they realize it."

Who believed Ice-Man had that power before he actually got it given to him? No one I knew.

It doesn't matter what you believe - it's a sensible progression. If you can freeze water molecules to make ice, you can freeze water molecules to make it cold outside and you can freeze water molecules inside a person's body. Makes sense to me.

iceman is one of the most neglected x-men characters ever... once the giant sized x-men came along he was on the background...

singling out iceman is not fair, jean is a galaxy destroying super b*tch, beast looks like a lion king reject, angel has practically become an actual angel, and cyclops has gone steadily downhill since the 90s...

the original five are barely prominent anymore, the emergence of storm, wolverine, bishop, emma and gambit has pushed the originals to the backjground... read uncanny x-men...

iceman could always lower his own body temperature, isn't as natural an extension (in xmen context) as you can get to have him use that ability on others?

"the point is that you're criticizing Iceman and X-men exceeding their original capabilities as if it's somehow unique to them. "

No, just Ice-Man.

"Changing the temperature is part of making ice"

And? Did I say he shouldn't create ice?

"You can see how that happened MORE than you can see Iceman going from generating ice to changing temperatures? Ridiculous."

Read please. I said I can see why it's done. Not how it happened. I said I don't agree with it. Try again.

"But it's not shit writing. EVERY Thanos appearance was like that. For YEARS. He just wasn't conceived as a bigwig until the 80s."

And remained so into 2005. Ice-Man didn't become a big wig until this year. Majorly. Coz he's shit and they needed an excuse to make him not so.

"It doesn't matter what you believe - it's a sensible progression. If you can freeze water molecules to make ice, you can freeze water molecules to make it cold outside and you can freeze water molecules inside a person's body. Makes sense to me."

This coming from someone who said "If Storm controls the weather she controls the air once it's inside your body". Doesn't make sense to me this vein freezing stuff. Well, if I had been given reason to believe he was capable rather than "I went away and honed by skills", maybe. I wasn't. For 40 years he was nothing.

"iceman could always lower his own body temperature, isn't as natural an extension (in xmen context) as you can get to have him use that ability on others?"

He can lower his, not other peoples. "I was born with the ability to lower my body temperature. I went away, trained, now I can do it to you."

Sounds dumb.

-AC

Back to the topic, people!

Who would win?

I think Storm. For reasons that we got off topic for and because I think she has better powers to get the job done.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"the point is that you're criticizing Iceman and X-men exceeding their original capabilities as if it's somehow unique to them. "

No, just Ice-Man.

I quoted you multiple examples of people who have also exceeded the vision by their creators - including two members of your beloved Fantastic Four. You're singling out Iceman because you're biased. There's no difference between Iceman discovering more about his power and Torch discovering more about his.

"Changing the temperature is part of making ice"

And? Did I say he shouldn't create ice?

Actually, in this same post you said: He can lower his, not other peoples. "I was born with the ability to lower my body temperature. I went away, trained, now I can do it to you."

Obviously, if that was all he could do, he couldn't create ice, right? And if can create ice, that means he has control over temperatures, right? And if he can control temperatures, then he can make people feel cold, right? And if he can make people feel cold...he can FREEZE THEIR BODIES, right?

I'm completely missing why you find this so hard to believe.

"But it's not shit writing. EVERY Thanos appearance was like that. For YEARS. He just wasn't conceived as a bigwig until the 80s."

And remained so into 2005. Ice-Man didn't become a big wig until this year. Majorly. Coz he's shit and they needed an excuse to make him not so.

Wrong, wrong wrong. Iceman was shown as having that potential since X-factor, when he had to wear a special belt to control his power. This isn't a sudden thing - it's been 20+ years in the making.

"It doesn't matter what you believe - it's a sensible progression. If you can freeze water molecules to make ice, you can freeze water molecules to make it cold outside and you can freeze water molecules inside a person's body. Makes sense to me."

This coming from someone who said "If Storm controls the weather she controls the air once it's inside your body". Doesn't make sense to me this vein freezing stuff. Well, if I had been given reason to believe he was capable rather than "I went away and honed by skills", maybe. I wasn't. For 40 years he was nothing.

Nonsense - he was conceived in the 70s, largely disappeared on Claremont's run, re-appeared at the start of X-factor, and almost immediately was shown as having extreme potential, to the point where he couldn't really control his power. This is NOT an all of a sudden thing.

"iceman could always lower his own body temperature, isn't as natural an extension (in xmen context) as you can get to have him use that ability on others?"

He can lower his, not other peoples. "I was born with the ability to lower my body temperature. I went away, trained, now I can do it to you."

He controls temperatures. If you accept that, then you should be able to accept that he can control temperatures of other things - because he controls temperatures.

"I quoted you multiple examples of people who have also exceeded the vision by their creators - including two members of your beloved Fantastic Four. You're singling out Iceman because you're biased. There's no difference between Iceman discovering more about his power and Torch discovering more about his."

Easy tiger. They're not MY Fantastic Four. Nor are they beloved. Stop trying to back yourself up. Secondly, no I'm not biased. I read X-Men for years. Ask PR if you want proof that I don't hate them. I post about X-Men I like and like reading about in the X-Men forum, I'm not biased toward the X-Men. Stop clinging to that.

"Obviously, if that was all he could do, he couldn't create ice, right? And if can create ice, that means he has control over temperatures, right? And if he can control temperatures, then he can make people feel cold, right? And if he can make people feel cold...he can FREEZE THEIR BODIES, right? I'm completely missing why you find this so hard to believe."

There is a difference between controlling something connected to you and something completely independant of you. Like I said to you, if I was given consistant proof over the years of him developing, yes. Even if I didn't agree I'd acknowledge it as credible. He didn't, he went away and came back as some demi-God. No pun intended.

"Wrong, wrong wrong. Iceman was shown as having that potential since X-factor, when he had to wear a special belt to control his power. This isn't a sudden thing - it's been 20+ years in the making."

The belt that was streamlining his powers you mean. Don't confuse control with focus. Ice-Man's power has not been 20 years in the making man, come on.

"Nonsense - he was conceived in the 70s, largely disappeared on Claremont's run, re-appeared at the start of X-factor, and almost immediately was shown as having extreme potential, to the point where he couldn't really control his power. This is NOT an all of a sudden thing."

He wasn't even a focal point in X-Factor, X-Men junior. You're only proving my point that he doesn't really matter much.

"He controls temperatures. If you accept that, then you should be able to accept that he can control temperatures of other things - because he controls temperatures."

Read what I said about "development".

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He can lower his, not other peoples. "I was born with the ability to lower my body temperature. I went away, trained, now I can do it to you."

Sounds dumb.

-AC

its evolution...

and some of us don't think its dumb...

"its evolution... and some of us don't think its dumb..."

You were told it was. I never had any reason to believe so.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"its evolution... and some of us don't think its dumb..."

You were told it was. I never had any reason to believe so.

-AC

there are loads of other heroes you could use that reasoning with...

We're talking about Ice-Man.

If you mean Sue Storm, she always had headaches, mad bursts of unexplainable power. Ice-Man had nothing. Oh, the "belt".

-AC

Look. It's stupid that Iceman, of all characters,should be pumped into some kind of god like being. It's completely insane. Storm should win this, but knowing that Iceman has ultimate powers(suddenly) which even defy scientific logic, Ill say that my homegirl can'twin.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
We're talking about Ice-Man.

If you mean Sue Storm, she always had headaches, mad bursts of unexplainable power. Ice-Man had nothing. Oh, the "belt".

-AC

sue would be low on my list...

iceman started off able to lower his own temperature, then evolved and was able to do it to others, not much of a stretch...

Look. It's stupid that Iceman, of all characters,should be pumped into some kind of god like being. It's completely insane. Storm should win this, but knowing that Iceman has ultimate powers(suddenly) which even defy scientific logic, Ill say that my homegirl can'twin.

of all people? and what makes storm so special?

"iceman started off able to lower his own temperature, then evolved and was able to do it to others, not much of a stretch..."

No. You were told he evolved. If that's "good" enough for you, fine.

-AC

Originally posted by pr1983
sue would be low on my list...

iceman started off able to lower his own temperature, then evolved and was able to do it to others, not much of a stretch...

of all people?

Yes. Why should Iceman become extremely powerful instead of... someone with more origional powers/better stories?? What did Iceman ever do? Nothing. It's just stupid writing that made him so powerful.

and what makes storm so special?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"iceman started off able to lower his own temperature, then evolved and was able to do it to others, not much of a stretch..."

No. You were told he evolved. If that's "good" enough for you, fine.

-AC

no, its been explained pretty well. iceman has gradually eveolved but never tried to expand his abilities, that was until he was possessed by emma frost, who figured out that his powers were more verastile than even she imagined... she trained iceman to use his powers more effectively...

we were told most x-men had evolved... we were also told a lot of things in comics...

What?? So special for what?? You mean special enough to take down God?? Nothing. She's just more powerful.(should be but...)

she has no god given right to be more powerful, just because your a fan, you aint joe quesada...

What????? That makes no sense!! No 'right' tobemore powerful???? Noone has a 'right'tobe more powerful than anybody!! And what makes you any diferrent fromme?? You are obviously an Ice fan. None of us is anything but 'joe quesada' on this site. We can only speculate. So stop with this crappy 'I'm better than you 'cuz I like himand you like him' logic, would ya!!!!!! God. Oh, sorry, Iceman!!!!

did you even read my or your own posts?

you said she should be more powerful, yet you didn't say why...

there are plenty of characters i like more than iceman, including storm...

To call it evolution would be severe retconning in the X-Men case, clearly.

It appears one of the current sacred cows is going to fall either way though.

I would back Ice-Man definitely. Storm has never impressed me at all, and given Ice-Man's current state- questionable or not- he isn't having any trouble with this.

Exactly.

"no, its been explained pretty well. iceman has gradually eveolved but never tried to expand his abilities, that was until he was possessed by emma frost, who figured out that his powers were more verastile than even she imagined... she trained iceman to use his powers more effectively..."

This is what we were told.

-AC