Apocalypse: OH SH!T!
http://img235.exs.cx/img235/3137/namorvsapocalypse014hn.jpg
All seeing Apocalypse
http://img235.exs.cx/img235/3137/namorvsapocalypse014hn.th.jpg
Namor: Eat table!
http://img122.exs.cx/my.phploc=img122&image=namorvsapocalypse034py.jpg
Apocalypse: F#CK THAT, better duck and have the pacific ocean drop on me than have that table hit me.
http://img240.exs.cx/my.phploc=img240&image=namorvsapocalypse045at.jpg
Originally posted by illadelph12
(Just got back from my lunch break. [I'm at work.])Ok.
I'll see if I can find a comic where it says Apocalypse changes into a metal, just to put you guys at ease.
Also, just so you guys know (or you may already know), density is an atomic trait, not a molecular trait.
You can't increase your density by packing more molecules together, you can only increase your mass (weight). You can't make water molecules more dense by adding more water molecules to them, just the mass, you would increase the density by packing the hydrogen and oxygen atoms in the compound more close together to make the compound more stable (in the case of water, by decreasing it's temperature and freezing it), thereby increasing it's density. You can't make skin harder by adding more skin. You can only make it thicker, but it won't increase it's density or change it's matter, just it's mass (thickness).
Also, to add, you can increase your weight without increasing your mass by increasing your density. That's why a 5'x 5' block of wood and 5' x 5' block of steel weigh different amounts, a difference in atomic density, not molecular mass.
Untrue. Density is simply a measurement of mass/volume. It applies to anything - from atomic to molecular to the density of people riding a train. If Apocalypse has a volume of, say, 100 square cm and a mass of 500kg he has a density of 5kg/sq cm. If he wants to increase his density, he would call on his extradimensional source and increase his mass within the same volume. If he wants to double his density, he would increase his mass to 1000kg but keep the same size. Voila - his density is now 10kg/sq cm. Nothing atomic about it.
Untrue. Density is simply a measurement of mass/volume. It applies to anything - from atomic to molecular to the density of people riding a train. If Apocalypse has a volume of, say, 100 square cm and a mass of 500kg he has a density of 5kg/sq cm. If he wants to increase his density, he would call on his extradimensional source and increase his mass within the same volume. If he wants to double his density, he would increase his mass to 1000kg but keep the same size. Voila - his density is now 10kg/sq cm. Nothing atomic about it.
That's scientifically unsound demi. [By the way, this isn't an exchange/debate between us, it's just an intellectual conversation between peers. I've already made my points in the actual debate at hand.]
You can not increase the density of a molecule (compound) by adding more molecules to it. If you have 100 liters of water, adding more water molecules will not make the water thicker to increase the density, it would only increase the volume.
In chemistry, the density of many substances is compared to the density of water. Does an object float on water or sink in the water? If an object such as a piece of wood floats on water it is less dense than water, as opposed to a rock which sinks, due to it being more dense than water.
A rock is obviously more dense than a mass of paper of the same size. A styrofoam cup is less dense than a stainless steel cup of the same size.
Density is a physical property of matter, as each element and compound has a unique density associated with it. Density defined in a qualitative manner as the measure of the relative "heaviness" of objects with a CONSTANT volume.
Therefore, to add more molecules to himself, Apocalypse would alter his volume, not his density, because he would be adding more flesh to flesh. The only way to change his density would be to alter the type of molecules/matter he consisted of, which would mean altering his atomic structure.
Originally posted by illadelph12
That's scientifically unsound demi. [By the way, this isn't an exchange/debate between us, it's just an intellectual conversation between peers. I've already made my points in the actual debate at hand.]
lol. In reference to the debate itself, I mentioned in an earlier post that Thanos has shown high level matter manipulation abilities before, as well as telepathic feats, both of which are Poccy weaknesses.
You can not increase the density of a molecule (compound) by adding more molecules to it. If you have 100 liters of water, adding more water molecules will not make the water thicker to increase the density, it would only increase the volume.
That's frequently true - but not always. You can actually change how closely packed the molecular structure is to increase the density. For example, high-density polyethylene vs. low-density polyethylene. They're both the same molecule, but high-density polyethylene is more closely packed.
In chemistry, the density of many substances is compared to the density of water. Does an object float on water or sink in the water? If an object such as a piece of wood floats on water it is less dense than water, as opposed to a rock which sinks, due to it being more dense than water.
I see what you're saying and I agree with you. I guess the real question, then is, when Apocalypse draws "additional mass" to increase density and all that, what exactly IS this "additional mass"? Are they molecules? Atoms? What are they molecules or atoms of?
Therefore, to add more molecules to himself, Apocalypse would alter his volume, not his density, because he would be adding more flesh to flesh. The only way to change his density would be to alter the type of molecules/matter he consisted of, which would mean altering his atomic structure.
Not exactly. A human can increase his density by working out, adding more muscle mass to replace the fat (since muscle outweights fat). His volume will increase somewhat, but you can double your strength without doubling your size. I imagine a similar principle takes place at will with Poccy, depending on what this "additional mass" is. There have only been two examples of his strength increasing in comics - one was when he turned HUGE, and the other was when he "bulked up" during the X-cutioner storyline. There haven't been any examples of him increasing his strength without physically growing or bulking up. So he can increase his density, but to increase his strength to extreme levels, it would appear that he'd HAVE to alter his size to accommodate. That suggest a molecular, rather than an atomic control, as your own explanations have proven.
Not exactly. A human can increase his density by working out, adding more muscle mass to replace the fat (since muscle outweights fat). His volume will increase somewhat, but you can double your strength without doubling your size. I imagine a similar principle takes place at will with Poccy, depending on what this "additional mass" is. There have only been two examples of his strength increasing in comics - one was when he turned HUGE, and the other was when he "bulked up" during the X-cutioner storyline. There haven't been any examples of him increasing his strength without physically growing or bulking up. So he can increase his density, but to increase his strength to extreme levels, it would appear that he'd HAVE to alter his size to accommodate. That suggest a molecular, rather than an atomic control, as your own explanations have proven.
Interesting point there. The thing in this scenario though is that you aren't actually changing the composition of the actual compounds in the body, just the ratio of the amounts that equal the sum by reducing fat and increasing muscle, and since muscle (protein) is a more dense compound than fat, the same volume of fat molecules and protein molecules have different weight values. You aren't controlling the 'density' of your body, you are controlling the sum of your parts. Like replacing a fiberglass bumper with a steel bumper of the same size on your car. Both have the same size, volume, and dimensions, but the material of the object has changed, and the steel bumper has a higher weight value (and strength) due to the density of the steel, not the amount of steel.
I wish I could have conversations like this with my friends. It gets boring talking about basketball, hip hop, and booty 24/7.
[well, at least hoop and hip hop].
Originally posted by illadelph12
Interesting point there. The thing in this scenario though is that you aren't actually changing the composition of the actual compounds in the body, just the ratio of the amounts that equal the sum by reducing fat and increasing muscle, and since muscle (protein) is a more dense compound than fat, the same volume of fat molecules and protein molecules have different weight values. You aren't controlling the 'density' of your body, you are controlling the sum of your parts. Like replacing a fiberglass bumper with a steel bumper of the same size on your car. Both have the same size, volume, and dimensions, but the material of the object has changed, and the steel bumper has a higher weight value (and strength) due to the density of the steel, not the amount of steel.
I agree. But controlling the sum of your parts, in turn, controls its density. Poccy calling upon this "extradimensional mass" could give him extremely dense...mass that increases durability and strength. That, presumably, would take the place of fat and muscle the way working out replaces fat with muscle. The net effect is the same. Either way, unless we know what this "mass" is, we can only speculate. And unless we know specific instances in which some part of his body changed to another substance (except energy blasts, which are Celestial), we can't assume that he's able to exert atomic control, at least not beyond being able to form molecules and compounds. But the base elements would always be the same.
I wish I could have conversations like this with my friends. It gets boring talking about basketball, hip hop, and booty 24/7.
[well, at least hoop and hip hop].
Oh, believe me - I know. I know. lol.
Not that there's anything wrong with basketball mind you. But my Knicks suck, so there's not much to be happy about other than Kobe getting played every night.
Apocalypse atomic body structure permits vast amounts of power and endurance. making him extremely powerful.
Explain.
sombody please help me this crap is killing me
please help
Try an enema. Or a laxative.
Missed this first time around:
There haven't been any examples of him increasing his strength without physically growing or bulking up. So he can increase his density, but to increase his strength to extreme levels, it would appear that he'd HAVE to alter his size to accommodate. That suggest a molecular, rather than an atomic control, as your own explanations have proven.
Not exactly.
To lift something obviously you need either physical strength or another means of creating a source of directional locomotion. An organic body can only lift what it's muscle mass will allow through strength unless re-inforced by other means (in comics: telekinesis, magnetism, power cosmic, solar powered bio-matrix, etc.). A skinny 4 year old child is not going to lift a car because that's beyond his strength capacity due to inherrent muscle mass. Apocalypse can increase his muscle mass (the amount of his protein molecules) to lift large objects, or, as he has done on occasion, he could morph a portion of himself (usually his arms) into a crane-like robotic arm to strengthen his grip or smack someone up.
Not that there's anything wrong with basketball mind you. But my Knicks suck, so there's not much to be happy about other than Kobe getting played every night.
You're a Knicks fan too? I used to live in NY till I was about 10 (E. 35 & Flatbush, BK). Been down since Starks was rockin the high top fade (and choking). Did you see the way we put it on Boston last night? Jamal Crawford did this sick dunk. If only we were playing for something.
Originally posted by illadelph12
You're a Knicks fan too? I used to live in NY till I was about 10 (E. 35 & Flatbush, BK). Been down since Starks was rockin the high top fade (and choking). Did you see the way we put it on Boston last night? Jamal Crawford did this sick dunk. If only we were playing for something.
If the Knicks fought with that kind of heart every night, they'd be at least fourth seed right now. The fact that they don't (Stephan is OVERRATED) is why they're on the outside looking in.
I miss the old days, when the Knicks would suffocate everybody with defense...then get to the playoffs for their annual steamrolling by the Bulls.
