Uh, I never said Apocalypse would win. Did anyone catch that part or did you just assume since I spoke on Apocalypse's abilities I said he would win? I was just stating the method of combat Apoc has at his disposal to counter Thanos. He doesn't have the means to kill Thanos, he simply has a means to render Thanos's attack useless. Eventually his powers would destroy the body he's in and Thanos could take him. I'm pretty well versed on both characters, that's how I know that under his own power Thanos does not have the electro-magnetic, telekinetic, or psionic manipulation it would take to attack Apoc.
Also, just because Thanos has beaten more 'powerful' characters, you shouldn't assume he'd just crush anyone who doesn't have the same firepower. That's Dragonball logic. You have to go by what the characters abilities allow him to do.
Like, for instance, Cloak vs Hulk.
Hulk can go blow for blow with any character anywhere, and knock a majority out, and he can heal from any wound, Cloak couldn't hope to do any of that. Hulk is infinite times more powerful than Cloak, yet Cloak's abilities, though he's vastly weaker than his opponent, allow him to counter Hulk's attacks or entrap him if he wished. It's not about who you've beaten or how powerful you are, it's about the individual match-up; abilities versus abilities.
Fair enough.
But with regards to...
Originally posted by illadelph12
I'm pretty well versed on both characters, that's how I know that under his own power Thanos does not have the electro-magnetic, telekinetic, or psionic manipulation it would take to attack Apoc.
...you forget that maybe telekinetic or psionic or electro-magnetic
attacks are the best ones to defeat Apocalypse with, from the point
of view of earth heroes, but that doesn't mean that a big blast of
cosmic energy cannot vaporize him.
In other words, earth heroes have to depend on such attacks as the
three you stated, because they don't have access to higher levels
of powers. But Thanos does. Thanos can probably turn an average
US State, or the British Island, into a giant crater. Access to such
levels of power makes Thanos beyond most earth super-beings.
More members of this forum should have your logic and understanding.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Uh, I never said Apocalypse would win. Did anyone catch that part or did you just assume since I spoke on Apocalypse's abilities I said he would win? I was just stating the method of combat Apoc has at his disposal to counter Thanos. He doesn't have the means to kill Thanos, he simply has a means to render Thanos's attack useless. Eventually his powers would destroy the body he's in and Thanos could take him. I'm pretty well versed on both characters, that's how I know that under his own power Thanos does not have the electro-magnetic, telekinetic, or psionic manipulation it would take to attack Apoc.Also, just because Thanos has beaten more 'powerful' characters, you shouldn't assume he'd just crush anyone who doesn't have the same firepower. That's Dragonball logic. You have to go by what the characters abilities allow him to do.
Like, for instance, Cloak vs Hulk.
Hulk can go blow for blow with any character anywhere, and knock a majority out, and he can heal from any wound, Cloak couldn't hope to do any of that. Hulk is infinite times more powerful than Cloak, yet Cloak's abilities, though he's vastly weaker than his opponent, allow him to counter Hulk's attacks or entrap him if he wished. It's not about who you've beaten or how powerful you are, it's about the individual match-up; abilities versus abilities.
...you forget that maybe telekinetic or psionic or electro-magnetic
attacks are the best ones to defeat Apocalypse with, from the point
of view of earth heroes, but that doesn't mean that a big blast of
cosmic energy cannot vaporize him.
I already accounted for that in an earlier post KB. A cosmic energy blast is still kinetic energy. Apocalypse absorbs energy to fuel his powers by design anyway. Augmenting his body to absorb cosmic energy and either re-direct it as a return blast or absorb it as fuel to strengthen himself is not a big feat. Some mutants, like for instance Havok or the Living Monolith, already do that naturally. Apocalypse could as well given his powers to alter his molecular make up.
Besides, I said Thanos would win. I just don't think it would be a massacre.
Ok time to clear up some fallacies and misconceptions...
Originally posted by illadelph12🤨
I do, however, think you bringing me up in that other thread (Hulk/Thanos) where I wasn't even involved in the debate was b*tchmade. No beef, but sh*t like that's not necessary or called for, feel me. You don't agree, prove that Nightcrawler never dismembered someone in the comic books. Don't try to belittle me because you and a few others disagree with what was written.
I don't recall mentioning you at all in that thread. I did voice my opinion that Thanos vs. Hulk was a decent fight, as opposed to Nightcrawler vs. Hulk. Why that hurts your feelings is beyond me.
As far as proving what Marvel says about their own characters, I'm not the writer, so I can only go by what they say about their character. Whether or not they prove to show the characters full abilities in ink is up to them.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I prefer to see powers and abilities exhibited at least a couple of times in realistic situations versus realistic opponents before I choose to accept that the character is capable of wielding said power.
It's a proven fact that Apocalypse can alter his mass, density, matter, and strength, the full extent of which has not been shown as of yet. So one could theorize, as I have, that Apocalypse could pull off the method of counter attack I stated. Would you like book numbers of when Apocalypse has shape shifted or turned himself into various metals, or his arms into various devices.
Key phrase...the full extent of which has not been shown as of yet...so you're choosing to exaggerate. I would like book numbers...especially where Apoc has altered his mass and density to weigh as much as a planet, and his armour to make it as hard as adamantium. Plus I want to see the one where he goes from Class 100 to Class 1,000,000 and becomes as powerful as Celestials...then I might actually start believing some of the tripe that comes off the keyboards of his fanboys. Other than that, I don't need any book numbers. I've seen him grow to fairly large sizes, and alter his armour to create shields, guns, a life supports system in space, etc. Devices that I'm sure Thanos and his cosmic power would have little trouble getting past.
Now to derail the thread a little...
If this is the case, then why are you so vehemenently against the fact that Nightcrawler can teleport limbs and bodyparts off when it has been PROVEN that he can do so.
I am not vehemently against Nightcrawler being able to do that...just not against someone like the Hulk.
Your response to this will be: But he did it against the Magus, who is just as powerful or more than the Hulk
To that I say: That's Dragonball logic.
Sound familiar? They're your words, not mine...and they apply in the case of Nightcrawler...but not in the case of Thanos vs. Apocalypse, cause Thanos is simply on another level...one that Apockie had struggled desperately to achieve before his untimely death. Boo hoo. 😆
So much in fact that you brought it up in a thread that had nothing to do with the thread at hand or me being involved in the thread.
Here's where you're wrong, twinkletoes. You brought it up. All I did was explain to you that I was belittling you because I perceived your credibility to be too microscopic to compute, based on the opinions expressed in the Hulk vs. NC thread. In no way was that an invitation to begin debating that in this thread. You started that all on your own.
Back on track...
I proved that with evidence and you let your own opinion override the facts at hand.
Why?
Matter of fact, forget it. I already made my points, gave my reasons and basis for them. I don't need to go further.
Spoken so 'matter of factly'...yet I'm still at a loss to figure out what 'facts' you presented. I never argued that Apocalypse couldn't alter his size, mass, shapeshift, etc. What you're doing is tainting your 'facts' with opinion based on a hyperbole...I'm simply not believing it.
You've chosen to exaggerate Apoc's abilities...I have not done the same. With Thanos, you don't have to at all. What are you going to tell me next? He's a match for Galactus now?
I too don't believe that Apocalypse will be a pushover...but it won't take hundreds of years either for Thanos to dispose of him.
Moving on to others...
Originally posted by jinzinCan't believe I missed this...I'd hardly say he "took control" of the High Evolutionary...it ended in a stalemate, and the Evo even considered forcing him back to continue after he left, but thought it to be a waste of time. Even if Apoc did come off more powerful than the Evolutionary, who cares? That suddenly means he stands a chance against Thanos? Thanos is not about to take a guy named 'Herbert' seriously. 😆
actually apoc does have those abilities a good number of them can be seen in his little bout with the high evolutianary which he took control of by the way.
Apoc doesn't always get beaten by the x-men apoc himself hardly ever fights the x-men headon or without underlings.......And what it took to beat/kill apoc.......one of the most powerful mutants....ever, magneto. another but one that was bred to kill apoc, stryfe. and uhhh the twelve......Do you even know who are in the freakin twelve.....the pheonix alone would give thanos a run for his money, but the entire twelve,,,,not a group to be taken lightly.
Ooooh, the 'Freakin Twelve'. The only one of which would catch the attention of Thanos would be Nate Grey...Jean does not pose even the smallest of threats to Thanos. Now, wielding the power of the Phoenix Force...well that's a different story...but then if you want to give her that, then give Thanos the Infinity Gauntlet, and he'll cage her like a canary, but that's a whole 'nother thread.
How about if Thanos just turns on the time bomb on his belt just as he did after the IG story... a simple bomb you say? Who was on that hunk of rock with Thanos - Thor, Hulk, Drax, Dr Strange, Surfer, Warlock with the IG no less - all capable of withstanding enormous amounts of cosmic energy, yet they still had to knock Thanos away from that asteroid to stay safe.
yet I'm still at a loss to figure out what 'facts' you presented. I never argued that Apocalypse couldn't alter his size, mass, shapeshift, etc. What you're doing is tainting your 'facts' with opinion based on a hyperbole...I'm simply not believing it.
Key phrase...the full extent of which has not been shown as of yet...so you're choosing to exaggerate.
hyperbole: exaggeration; overstatement
possibilty: The quality or state of being possible; the power of happening, being, or existing.
Semantics.
It's all a matter of opinion and perspective, Lord S.
Also, I won't stoop to the childish name calling such as 'twinkletoes', or assuming you're smoking something potent or question your intelligence due to your differing opinions.
You think it's an exageration that a character with psionic control over his atomic structure, and the ability to control his size, matter, and density, and who has on many documented occasions changed his body to various sizes, metals, substances, and devices, could change himself into adamantium, which IS a metal.
I think it is a possibility.
The fact Marvel never displays this can be for many reasons, like for instance, that it would make Apoc an unbeatable opponent for the X-Men if they used his characters premise to it's full extent. I could speculate, but I don't care to because it would solve nothing. It's their work of fiction, I have no say in the matter. I can simply state possibilities given the premise presented to me.
He's a match for Galactus now?
No. I never said that [exaggerating my statements?]. Galactus has cosmic level control over matter and the atomic structure of matter. He can alter an organism like Norrin Radd from flesh and bone into a being like the Silver Surfer with a thought and his powers. Thanos simply has cosmic energy blasts, he doesn't have the control over matter as Galactus does. He's simply a powerful, augmented, mutant Titanian Eternal who can emit energy blast from absorbed cosmic energy and create forcefields. He's not one of the 3 essential forces in the Marvel Universe. He has to procure artifacts to be on or above that level.
How about if Thanos just turns on the time bomb on his belt just as he did after the IG story... a simple bomb you say? Who was on that hunk of rock with Thanos - Thor, Hulk, Drax, Dr Strange, Surfer, Warlock with the IG no less - all capable of withstanding enormous amounts of cosmic energy, yet they still had to knock Thanos away from that asteroid to stay safe.
Plot device.
I don't recall mentioning you at all in that thread. I did voice my opinion that Thanos vs. Hulk was a decent fight, as opposed to Nightcrawler vs. Hulk. Why that hurts your feelings is beyond me.
I'm not a child. I can interpret insinuation and innuendo. Like in the Apocalypse vs. Surfer thread. My feelings aren't hurt, I simply feel it's unnecessary for you to bring up our differing opinions in a belittling way for a sort of subliminal insult. I feel it's childish.
Now, I've already said what I have to say. I explained my reasoning many times. You choose not to agree, so be it. I don't feel I have to say anything more on this matter, nor will I.
Apoc seems to have the power of Life. He has his energy sleep where whatever he has suffered in the past is deleted.
Thanos draws on stuff, energies and what not. Apoc. generates the stuff all for himself. I think facing Apoc. energies is more deadly than the stuff Thanos can throw at you.
When 2 peps fight and one is throwing stagnant energies around(powerful but plain) and the other is making fresh stuff. I give it to the guy who makes his own.
Thus Apocalypse in 3 rounds.
Originally posted by illadelph12Yes I believe it is a gross exaggeration. Tell me Apocalypse can grow to the size of the Statue of Liberty, I'll believe you. Tell me he can turn his arms into blasters, I'll believe you. Tell me he can create a forcefield, I'll believe you. Tell me he can turn his armour into adamantium...unless he's already incorporated some sort of liquid version of it into his armour, I'll tell you you're insane. Tell me he can weigh as much as a freaking planet...I'll tell you that you need your head examined. If you were half as intelligent and mature as you try to push on everyone, you'd see it.
You think it's an exageration that a character with psionic control over his atomic structure, and the ability to control his size, matter, and density, and who has on many documented occasions changed his body to various sizes, metals, substances, and devices, could change himself into adamantium, which IS a metal.
The fact Marvel never displays this can be for many reasons, like for instance, that it would make Apoc an unbeatable opponent for the X-Men if they used his characters premise to it's full extent. I could speculate, but I don't care to because it would solve nothing. It's their work of fiction, I have no say in the matter. I can simply state possibilities given the premise presented to me.
The problem I have is with this whole "grant himself ANY power he chooses" and "unlimited strength". I know you have a problem with the latter as it applies to the Hulk. I don't mind a slight exaggeration, but going from class 100 to class 1,000,000 and weighing as much as a planet is going a little over the top, wouldn't you agree?
No. I never said that [exaggerating my statements?]. Galactus has cosmic level control over matter and the atomic structure of matter. He can alter an organism like Norrin Radd from flesh and bone into a being like the Silver Surfer with a thought and his powers. Thanos simply has cosmic energy blasts, he doesn't have the control over matter as Galactus does. He's simply a powerful, augmented, mutant Titanian Eternal who can emit energy blast from absorbed cosmic energy and create forcefields. He's not one of the 3 essential forces in the Marvel Universe. He has to procure artifacts to be on or above that level.
Thank you for the lesson...Galactus 101. I am forever indebted to you! 😆 The reason I brought it up was because many Apoc fanboys claim that he is on par with Galactus, and was just checking if you, due to your recent vacuous comments, would go down that slippery slope as well. It's refreshing to see you don't hold that opinion. My respect for you has increased by 1%.
I'm not a child. I can interpret insinuation and innuendo. Like in the Apocalypse vs. Surfer thread. My feelings aren't hurt, I simply feel it's unnecessary for you to bring up our differing opinions in a belittling way for a sort of subliminal insult. I feel it's childish.
😆
Waaah...here's the box of tissues you ordered. Please...you've been no less flippant yourself.
hyperbole: exaggeration; overstatement
possibilty: The quality or state of being possible; the power of happening, being, or existing.
opinion: to opine; Favorable estimation; hence, consideration; reputation; fame; public sentiment or esteem; The judgment or sentiment which the mind forms of persons, concepts or things; personal estimation.
Semantics.
density: combination of how compressed a material is to how much its atoms or molecules weigh per unit volume.
All it would take is knowledge of the atomic structure of adamantium (which Apocalypse has) and a thought, since his control of his atomic structure is psionic. Adamantium is a type of metal that is extremely dense. Apocalypse can alter his atomic structure and density, and can change from flesh to any type of matter, metal included, altering his structure, size and density (weight), with his power, and has changed his body into metals on numerous occasions.
You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to mine. I've rehashed my reasoning on this topic many times. In your opinion, it's an exageration. I feel given the premise that it's a possibility in my opinion.
As I said before, I will go no further. If you do not believe he can change into metals and alter his density and atomic structure, though he has been displayed to do so, so be it.