Originally posted by King Burger
You really don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you?The Quran has "exact verses" dealing with homosexuality and
what is to be done with it? The Bible isn't as detailed as the Quran
on homosexuality? And how many times have you read the
Quran, I wonder?
I read the Quran and I read the Hadith, and I know the Shaira law. How many times have you read the Hadith, Sunna, Quran and Sharia Law, if you're gonna preach to me.
Originally posted by King Burger
Most of the references to homosexuality in the Quran are like
those of the Bible, ones relating to the story of Lot.
http://www.geocities.com/IslamAwareness/Homo/homo.htmlAnd who says the jewish Torah has nothing on homosexuality?
Where the hell do you think the story of Lot came from?Go and read Genesis Chapter 19, about the story of Sodom and
Gamorrah.Go read Leviticus Ch.20, V.13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as
he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:
they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them."
(Sounds pretty "precise" to me).That's the Hebrew Old Testament, not the Christian New one.
Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all pretty much the same in theology - newsflash! many stories of those in Hadith resemble those in Torah and Bible - read. The sharia law has a strict law...actually, go look up what Sharia is, then come back.
Originally posted by King Burger
As for Homosexuality outlawed in Muslim lands, and not in
the US and Europe. First of all, it's interesting that in the links
you provided about Egypt, it says that there are no official laws
against homosexuality.But regardless, the reason why homosexuality isn't outlawed in
the US or Europe has nothing to do with Christianity, but rather
with the fact that these countries are secular. Muslim nations
are not (atleast not to the extent of the West). If the US or
western Europe wasn't secular, if they brought Christianity into
their laws like muslim countries do, then there homosexuality
would've been illegal there too.
And again, ignorance to what Sharia law is makes you say things like above. Google it or petes sake!
Originally posted by King Burger
That was a stupid comparison you made. It is akin to me comparing
the Pope with porn actor Ron Jeremy, and concluding that while
Christianity is a moral faith (because the christian Pope is a moral
man), Judaism is a completely immoral religion (because Ron
Jeremy,who is jewish, is immoral). That's nonesense.
Stupidity!
Please provide me with the quote at where I have suggested Christianity is a moral religon at all!
Originally posted by King Burger
Finally, it is none of your concern to judge these far older nations
and cultures on their views of morality. If they see homosexuality
as immoral, then that's their business. It's not for anyone to
push their moral (or immoral) views on them. They happen to see
polygamy as perfectly okay, but I'm thinking you wouldn't want
polygamy to be legalized in the West, would you?
At least my consernes are for human rights, unlike American consern witch is for money and oil.
And would you be happy if polyandry was legalized in the west? Not only is it unsafe but its a risk but a financial burden. But if many peple in the west thought they could afford to keep 4 or more wifes then by all means - legalize it.
So, yes im waiting for you to pin point as to where i have said Christianity was a moral religon.
Originally posted by Adam_PoEI understand.
Clearly, laws [b]have been passed which make homosexuality illegal and take away the human rights of homosexuals, including in America, to the contrary of your previous statement.Do not state that Christians, particularly those in America, are judgemental of homosexuality but have not passed laws which make homosexuality illegal or take away the rights of homosexuals, and then get upset when it is proven that you are wrong. [/B]
The point is - while most of the organized religions are trying to preach ''acceptance'' and ''tolerance'' they're doing the exact oposite.
In fact, such word as ''tolerance of homosexuals'' shouldnt be even spoken. Tolerance? We're tolerating each other? It should be acceptance and co-existance not 'tolerance'...tolerating means putting up with something...how...wrong.
And PS!!
Before my posts get misunderstood some more my very first post in this thread meant this -
Christians and Jews do not have an equivelent of Islamic Sharia Law.
Sharia in Arabic means ''the way'' and its the set of rules and laws (from economic to social) which tell Muslims how to live. Drwan upon Quran and Sunnah I think and its all about how Mohammed lived his life. It has things like dress code and domestic treatment and roles of women, homosexuals, jihad...etc.
So for example Saudi Arabia has the Sharia courts - their country is pretty much run on those laws - for example adultary is punishable by death (stoning I think)...etc.
That was my point - while Christians and Jews have no such equivelent, or to that extent. (although they could in theory have it, but they dont)
Originally posted by finti
so in other words the christians and jews have no reason whatsoever to act the way they do towards the gay then
WTF? In the bible which you said millison o times it is stated that homosexuality is wrong! Its in their HOLY book! Sheesh!
Please stop putting words in my mouth and read what i wrote. Christians have a bible in which clearly states homosexuality is wrong.
Jews have Torah which state homosexuals are wrong, Muslims have Quran which states homosexuality is wrong, and Sharia which is a series of Islamic LAWS which state homosexuality is wrong and how it is to be dealth with it.
Islamic states implement Sharia as their countrys laws. Christians and Jews do not have to that extent.
They have an actual rules - the laws. Christians and Jews have the holy books and they dont have an equivelent to Islamic Sharia which was what I was stating in the first post, and if people warent so egar to bash one or the other religon you would have seen pass what you want to see.
Please stop putting words in my mouth and read what i wrote. Christians have a bible in which clearly states homosexuality is wrongchristians also have a thing in their book that clearly say they shall not pass judgment, they clearly dont follow this one so why should they pay more attention to that homosexuality is wrong than that of passing judgment?
Even if muslim countries have laws toward homosexuality in a indirect way so do some countries with a vast majority of christians. At least the muslim under shariah comes straight forward in their views unlike the christians ones. So in a way they are equivalent it is just one of them has it written while the other has it as subconscious moral rug.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I read the Quran and I read the Hadith, and I know the Shaira law. How many times have you read the Hadith, Sunna, Quran and Sharia Law, if you're gonna preach to me.Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all pretty much the same in theology - newsflash! many stories of those in Hadith resemble those in Torah and Bible - read. The sharia law has a strict law...actually, go look up what Sharia is, then come back.
I too am familar with the Quran and Hadith. And if you were
indeed knowledgable of them, then you would know that there
is no text called "Sunna" or "Sharia".
"Sunna" is just arabic for "tradition".
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Stupidity!Please provide me with the quote at where I have suggested Christianity is a moral religon at all!
The point I was trying to make was that you were using the
fact that homosexuals aren't persecuted in the West as proof
that islam is worse than christianity on this issue (your quotes
"Christians follow not so persise rules - the bible isnt as
detailed as Quran on homosexuality and whats to be done with
offenders and such - and its not illegal in Christian countries.";
"I see. But they dont treat gays any more harshly then Muslims
or Jews do. In fact, as I mentioned homosexuality is illegal in
Islamic countries - as a homosexual you lose human rights.";
"And Christians although being judgemental towards homosexuals
as well as discriminative and prejudice particulary in America
(although Europe aint that great either), have not passed the laws
which take away human rights of homosexuals or made homosexuality
illegal."; "Uuum, I know the history - much more the Europien
and what had happened to people who did practice homosexuality.
Homosexuality is not illegal - the marrage is, the act is not punishable
by death."). I pointed out that that moronic, since these
countries would likely also outlaw homosexuality if they followed
christian laws. That they don't is due to their not following
christian laws because they are secular. Same with Israel, if the
government there followed the advice of their orthodox rabbis,
then they'd be just intolerate of any homosexuals in their country
as well. Understand?
You insist people re-read your posts. Maybe you should take your
own advice as well.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
At least my consernes are for human rights, unlike American consern witch is for money and oil.
Yes, ofcourse, compare your own individual point of view with
the supposed view of a whole nation of 290 million.
I personally doubt you ever did read the Quran or the Hadiths,
unless ofcourse you are were raised a muslim, in which case
your opiions would show you to be an apostate, and apostates
are usually filled with too much hatred of their fomrer religion to
see straight.
You assume way too much, put words in my mouth and read what you feel like.
I made my point already - it had nothing to do with one religion being better than worse than the other, since they are all a lot of bullshit - islam and christianity.
I read the Quran and the Ahadith, hence I know the massive bullshit they both say.
Same goes for bible, although i have never fully read the bible - from what i have - its about as full of crap and hateret as Quran.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You assume way too much, put words in my mouth and read what you feel like.I made my point already - it had nothing to do with one religion being better than worse than the other, since they are all a lot of bullshit - islam and christianity.
I read the Quran and the Ahadith, hence I know the massive bullshit they both say.
Same goes for bible, although i have never fully read the bible - from what i have - its about as full of crap and hateret as Quran.
Whatever you say.
As for the "crap" and "hatred" in the religions, well nobody's forcing
you to join them.
Originally posted by King BurgerYep, whatever I say indeed.
Whatever you say.As for the "crap" and "hatred" in the religions, well nobody's forcing
you to join them.
And nope, noone can possibly make me join any of the above religions. I have a religion, its called Buddhism.
Any holy book, which claims that is holy, yet have contradictions in it - is not from any God - how can a god that is almighty possibly write a book then make clear contradictions.
And Bible, Torah and Quran are full of contradictions. Lets not even talk about absurdities.
Originally posted by finti
some might debate whether buddhism is counted as a religion or not..............well wouldn't count out buddhism when it came to absurdities though
Buddhism IS counted as a religion. Ask a Tibetien or any other Monk.
I count it as a philosophy of life, and I argued agains it being a religion - like 10 times now.
Which part of Buddhism do you count as absurdity?
Maybe. Maybe not.
I think thats down to a core of belief, by absurdities, I was more talking of absurdities like this - in the bible some people had an incredile life spans -
''5:11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.''
Thats a LONG life... reeve
Or like when god made the light and the darkness on earth on the day one, but he didnt make light producing objects till the day four.
Ok, and then theres a verse about ehoram who was 32 years old when he began to reign and he reigned for eight years and then died, so he was 40 years old. After his death, his youngest son Ahaziah began to reign at the age of 42 (22:1-2). So the son (Ahaziah) was two years older than his father. reeve
And then Quran says
Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers. reeve
Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the sister of Aaron. (Apparently, Muhammad confused Mary with Miriam.)
Then If you get dirty (by touching a woman or something), and can't find any clean water around at prayer time, you can clean up by rubbing your face and hands in some clean dirt. reeve
But then at night the sun sets in a muddy spring.
reeve eeh?
Buddhist have scriptures - they're called Sutra. They all deal with different things. They dont have one main book, like other religions have...Tiptaka, as many may know is the largest one.
I've never read it - I dont speak the language it is originaly writen in, and the English translation of it takes up 42 volumes.
Many of those scriptures are chanted in the Monistaries - its not something one keeps besides the bed. hehe
They are about self discipline and conduct. How to avoid greed, hate and deliusions of life.
The Kalama Sutra is rather important one, because it has the advice the Buddha gives about what person chooses to believe in and what they don't.
Buddha says that perspon shouldn't follow anything blindly if they think that what is being taught is unwholesome, would be censured by the wise and which leads to harm and suffering, which is what buddhism is trying to avoid.
^^ 👆 That is from the scroles (obviously not quoted, but its what it says)