I wish people wouldn't say that gays should disassociate themselves from religion and form their own. There's no reason for that. The anti-gay people are the ones who should disassociate themselves from Christianity. I am a devout Christian and am planning to become a priest. I feel that the Lord created and loves gay people.
It is true that the more research that is done on homosexuality, the more proof we are seeing that its causes are biological rather than environmental. Even if this were not true, I don't feel that it makes sense theologically to say that homosexuality is wrong or un-Christian just because it is in the Bible -- Bible quotations have been used to support such concepts as slavery and the idea that women are inferior to men. The fact is that the Bible is a book that was written by real people who lived in a different time and in a different culture -- it is a book produced by humans, it is not God's diary.
Originally posted by Echuu
the whole premise that god actually created gays is a debatable topic it selfMost religious people have a higher stance of morality than any non religious person and are less likely to kill, steal, cheat, etc...
what so i'm more likely to kill someone? more likely to steal? more likely to cheat??????? Eh don't think so buddy, i have morals, and am just as likely i'd say as any religous person. Thats quite an insulting statement.
Originally posted by Tex
I love how religious people own morality. Suggesting that if your not a religious person you have no morals.
Morals/ethics come from religion. To accept morality and in the same breath condemn religion as the scourge of humanity is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Tex
I stumbled upon this beautiful quote, its uncredited."Morality is doing what's right regardless of what you're told. Religion is doing what you're told regardless of what's right."
"Beautiful?" 😘 🙄
Religion is living by the morals, that are right, as your lifestyle, as told to you by the God who gave them to you.
Originally posted by Tex
Current scientific research strongly suggests that sexuality is determined by genetics as opposed to environment. The research suggesting its environmental is minute compared to the genetic.Besides, how exactly does a little penguin turn gay from living in his environment?
You know they have gay penguins dont you? They live together and have sex and they sit on little round rocks trying to hatch them.
There's dolphins and cats and dogs, baboons, gorillas, giraffes, elephants, birds you name it and homosexuality exists.If animals are instinct their sexuality is determined by genetics. Humans are no different, we're all created from the same building blocks. God loves his gays! 😍
It's pretty clear that homosexuality is a genetic defect in some cases and social/environmental in most others. It's possible that our processed food diet contributes in some way.
Originally posted by MRasheed
Morals/ethics come from religion. To accept morality and in the same breath condemn religion as the scourge of humanity is ridiculous."Beautiful?" 😘 🙄
Religion is living by the morals, that are right, as your lifestyle, as told to you by the God who gave them to you.
It's pretty clear that homosexuality is a genetic defect in some cases and social/environmental in most others. It's possible that our processed food diet contributes in some way.
How would you explain a moral atheist then, if a fear and/or love of God is needed for people to have morals?
Which religion then?
In the cases of being born gay (you call it a defect), how can the homosexual be held accountable in the eyes of God? Pretty sure their were plenty of gays frolicking about before Campbell started putting chicken soup in a can.
Originally posted by Robtard
How would you explain a moral atheist then, if a fear and/or love of God is needed for people to have morals? Which religion then?
I said it comes from religion, as in that's the very the origin of the concept.
Originally posted by Robtard
In the cases of being born gay (you call it a defect), how can the homosexual be held accountable in the eyes of God?
The same way we all are. Each of us has his/her own particular sin that is that person's special vice that they struggle with over all others. It's part of the Game... overcoming temptation and sin and doing good and believing in the One who made you so that ye may prosper.
It's why we're here.
Originally posted by MRasheed
I said it comes from religion, as in that's the very the origin of the concept.The same way we all are. Each of us has his/her own particular sin that is that person's special vice that they struggle with over all others. It's part of the Game... overcoming temptation and sin and doing good and believing in the One who made you so that ye may prosper.
It's why we're here.
And before religion? People were simply with morals?
Which religion is needed to be moral though? Or simply being religious equates morality?
Yeah, doesn't really compare. Guess those born gay (aka defective sinners?) just got a raw deal.
Originally posted by Robtard
And before religion? People were simply with morals?
Adam was the prophet of God. The first one. There was always religion. God was with us from the beginning.
Originally posted by Robtard
Which religion is needed to be moral though?
Whichever ones that lists mandatory moral tenants in the faith. I know the three Abrahamic ones do.
Originally posted by Robtard
Or simply being religious equates morality?
Only if the religion in question lists the moral tenants as part of the faith.
Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, doesn't really compare.
*snort* Why not?
Originally posted by Robtard
[B]Guess those born gay (aka defective sinners?) just got a raw deal.
All sinners are born with their own pet temptation to overcome. All of us. It's a weakness inherent in the Flesh. The homosexual doesn't have it any worse than the fornicator, the adulterer, the thief, etc.
Originally posted by MRasheed
Adam was the prophet of God. The first one. There was always religion. God was with us from the beginning.Whichever ones that lists mandatory moral tenants in the faith. I know the three Abrahamic ones do.
Only if the religion in question lists the moral tenants as part of the faith.
*snort* Why not?
All sinners are born with their own pet temptation to overcome. All of us. It's a weakness inherent in the Flesh. The homosexual doesn't have it any worse than the fornicator, the adulterer, the thief, etc.
That answers my question, 'man started with Adam and the magical garden; nothing came before.' I obviously don't believe this story.
As a Muslim, wouldn't not submitted to the will of God via Mohammad's writings/teachings/morals be an affront to God? My Qur'an reading is rusty though.
Snort? Because they're still born gay, it wasn't their choice; it's part of who they are. It's not like you or I choosing to steal that lollipop. Apples to oranges.
And you know people are natural born adulterers and thieves and this is who they are how? The urge to ****, sure, that's natural. But going back to being born gay, it would be a double-whammy, not only were you born with the urge to ****, but to **** the wrong sex.
Originally posted by Robtard
That answers my question, 'man started with Adam and the magical garden; nothing came before.' I obviously don't believe this story.
And I obviously do. How did you think I was going to recieve your "And before religion?" line?
Originally posted by Robtard
As a Muslim, wouldn't not submitted to the will of God via Mohammad's writings/teachings/morals be an affront to God? My Qur'an reading is rusty though.
What are you talking about now, Robtard? Did you ask me what religion has morals in it, or did you ask me what religion do I subscribe to?
Originally posted by Robtard
Snort? Because they're still born gay, it wasn't their choice; it's part of who they are. It's not like you or I choosing to steal that lollipop. Apples to oranges.
Just because you and I weren't born with a natural tendency towards theft making it an especially difficult temptation for us doesn't mean other people aren't experiencing this.
Originally posted by Robtard
And you know people are natural born adulterers and thieves and this is who they are how? The urge to ****, sure, that's natural. But going back to being born gay, it would be a double-whammy, not only were you born with the urge to ****, but to **** the wrong sex.
I suspect that the guy born to stalk and kill hookers and throw their chopped up bits in a plastic garbage bag that he tosses off the bridge has it worse.
Originally posted by MRasheed
And I obviously do. How did you think I was going to recieve your "And before religion?" line?What are you talking about now, Robtard? Did you ask me what religion has morals in it, or did you ask me what religion do I subscribe to?
Just because you and I weren't born with a natural tendency towards theft making it an especially difficult temptation for us doesn't mean other people aren't experiencing this.
I suspect that the guy born to stalk and kill hookers and throw their chopped up bits in a plastic garbage bag that he tosses off the bridge has it worse.
I didn't want to assume, hence the question.
You've said Islam. Am curious as you seem to think that Christians and Jews are okay in the eyes of God, despite not subscribing to Islam.
And I asked in the question after, how do you know people are born thieves and adulterers?
Don't know, sin is sin in the eyes of God, no? John had something that might disagree though.
Originally posted by Robtard
You've said Islam. Am curious as you seem to think that Christians and Jews are okay in the eyes of God, despite not subscribing to Islam.
The Holy Qur'an 2: 62
(1) Those who believe in the Qur'an, and those who follow the Jewish scriptures, and the christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Originally posted by Robtard
And I asked in the question after, how do you know people are born thieves and adulterers?
How do you know they aren't?
I know based on how temptation/sin functions in the world.
Originally posted by Robtard
Don't know, sin is sin in the eyes of God, no?
There are certain sins that are VERY serious and are actually unforgivable to God. But that post was in reference to you saying how hard homosexuals had it (presumably as far as control is concerned). The serial killer would seem to have it harder to me.
Originally posted by MRasheed
[b]The Holy Qur'an 2: 62
(1) Those who believe in the Qur'an, and those who follow the Jewish scriptures, and the christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.How do you know they aren't?
I know based on how temptation/sin functions in the world.
There are certain sins that are VERY serious and are actually unforgivable to God. But that post was in reference to you saying how hard homosexuals had it (presumably as far as control is concerned). The serial killer would seem to have it harder to me. [/B]
Isn't that a reference to those non Muslims that still follow the principles of the Qur'an? IE who are essentially like Muslims in certain regards.
I don't know with 100% certainty that being a thief isn't something genetic; it does seem to be a learned social behavior though.
How does do they function in the real world?
Yeah, I'd have to look it up in John(?) as it's hazy. But also recall sin being equal.
Originally posted by Robtard
Isn't that a reference to those non Muslims that still follow the principles of the Qur'an? IE who are essentially like Muslims in certain regards.
Yup. Believe in God, avoid evil, do good. That's the message of God.
Originally posted by Robtard
I don't know with 100% certainty that being a thief isn't something genetic; it does seem to be a learned social behavior though.
Just like homosexuality, theft can be both a genetic anomaly as well as an appetite cultivated through learned behavior.
Originally posted by Robtard
How does do they function in the real world?
We already talked about that. Everybody has their pet temptation that they struggle with over most or all others. For the one person, his biggest temptation is sex with other women other than his wife; for the other it is theft, for the other it is intercourse with people of his same gender. Everybody comes here with their very own special temptation on a scantron sheet and a No. 2 pencil they must get through life with.
Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, I'd have to look it up in John(?) as it's hazy. But also recall sin being equal.
There are sins He will not forgive.