Originally posted by peejayd
* Violent Ken is much quicker and more brutal than normal Ken... Evil Ryu may have more energy because of Dark Hadou but he will go down with V. Ken's flurry of kicks and punches... 🙂
And find that he can't even hurt Ryu, when he can ever land one... thanks to the Ashura Senkuu
Evil Ryu in the game is stronger than Akuma, the guy kills'im in his endin and takes'is title as Supreme Master Of The Fist...he destroys ALL OF SHADOWLOO too.
V.Ken is just a Bison pawn made by SNK to match R.Iori. They shoulda made the Satsui No Hadou Ken, that woulda been like 10X more bad ass, yo.
It's sux that Ryu gets all this ultimate evil power and when Ken turns evil, he's gotta be some Bison experiment.
I think it's a combo of both
Originally posted by peejaydGameplay-wise, he beats the shit outta E.Ryu & he gives normal Gouki an EXTREMELY difficult time if he doesn't beat him.
* Violent Ken deserves to be at the level of Evil Ryu and Gouki [b]gameplay-wise, but not story-wise because it is not canon... 😉 [/B]
Originally posted by peejayd
* Violent Ken is fast and flashy [b]and damaging... 🙂 [/B]
Ah, no. Shinbu messatsu being the only exeption, whereas Ryu is built to outlast, heavy durability, and counter attacks. Ryu is geared for the patient player, Ken is for the fast and furious type, in many ways similar to Akuma.
Each has their strengths and weaknesses, Ryu is hard hitting single hits and defense. Ken and V.Ken is combos jump-ins and speed.
Sorry, but the more intelligent and patient fighter would win out.
as for E.Ryu... well my thoughts on him have already been stated, it'
s Ryu with more power and speed.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ah, no. Shinbu messatsu being the only exeption, whereas Ryu is built to outlast, heavy durability, and counter attacks.
* only Shinbu Messatsu as an exception? gameplay-wise, Ken's Shinryuken can par with Ryu's Shinkuu Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku... Ken's Shoryureppa can par with Ryu's Shinkuu Hadouken...
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ryu is geared for the patient player, Ken is for the fast and furious type, in many ways similar to Akuma.
* maybe... but you chose the right word - "geared"... because good players can be also play defensive as Ken and offensive as Ryu...
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Each has their strengths and weaknesses, Ryu is hard hitting single hits and defense. Ken and V.Ken is combos jump-ins and speed.Sorry, but the more intelligent and patient fighter would win out.
* nope, it depends on how good the player is... good offensive players can always find ways to defeat defensive players, and vice-versa... and of course, patient players main weakness is the time, unless the time is off...
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
as for E.Ryu... well my thoughts on him have already been stated, it'
s Ryu with more power and speed.
* gameplay-wise, Ken is already slightly quicker than Ryu but slightly slower than Gouki... Violent Ken can par with Evil Ryu and Gouki in power and speed, gameplay-wise... 🙂
* as for story-wise, if you saw Street Fighter Alpha movie: (borrowed from brainchild81) "Normal Ken punches E.Ryu in the gut & E.Ryu collapses. V.Ken punches E.Ryu THROUGH the gut & E.Ryu dies"-argument stands very firmly... in that movie, you can also witness Ken's durability... although i doubt that would really happen because of the mere fact that Ryu is the main protagonist of the story... 🙂
Ken's high damage soak is hinted at in every form of animation I've seen him in.
SFV: Knocks Vega the fvck out despite being stabbed & many times. (Ken used no visible chi moves back then)
SFII movie: After being engulfed in a pissed off Bison's Psycho power & thrown a vast distance, Ken realises his legs don't work.......Recovers. W/Ryu's help, fights & eventually defeats Bison despite being elbowed & punched in the face multiple times & thrown into Ryu.
SF:USA Cartoon: Takes damage from Akuma & keeps getting up.
Akuma tells him It appears you still have some fight left in you. You really are tough. Ken gets up & proceeds to beat Akuma's @ss. This is now canon because I said so.
Dark Ryu (Not Evil Ryu, stupid English translations) would utterly destroy Violent Ken with ease.
Dark Ryu would be ridiculously powerful, he would nearly be on par with someone like Gouki (Akuma) in abilities, which would push him well beyond the boundaries of even Violent Ken.
Not to mention, canon-storyline wise, Ryu is a far more powerful character then even Ken.
Throughout their entire time of training, Ken was never as good as Ryu, thus the reason why Ken started to wear his Red Gi, so he could stand out from Ryu.
The only times that Ken ever won against a match up with Ryu was during Alpha when Ryu was clouded by the Dark-Hadou and confused, thus he wasn't mentally into his matchup with Ken and lost.
The other time was most likely in SFII where Ken would've won, however outside of those two matchup's, Ryu has been the victor as stated by his comments "I have the better win record" to Ken in SFIII.
Ken is not as powerful as Ryu, fighting ability wise, or Ki-Channeling wise, especially that, considering Ken has been stated to not focus so much upon ki-channeling, and more upong being flashy.
Violent Ken would lose out to Ryu, I'm sorry.
In Game Wise, Ryu has overall been the better character...here let me list to all of you...
Street Fighter II: WW - (Tie) Ryu and Ken where both at the button, and where both horrible characters, due to Shoryuken not knocking down while standing, horrible Hadouken, and hurricane kick was completely garbage.
Street Fighter II: CE - (Ryu) Ryu was the 4th best overall character in this game, due to his much faster Hadouken, and far more powerful zoning game. Ken was very strong, but wasn't as good as Ryu overall, due to his weaker zoning game, however he was slightly stronger then Ryu in overall damage. Still Ryu was the better character in this Champion Edition.
Street Fighter II: HF - (Ryu) Ryu is the BEST character in Hyper Fighting, hands down, no if's and's or but's. With the greater speed, it made his Hadouken game even better, and made Ryu the most powerful overall character in the game. Ken's position is debated, however most top players will say he was the 5th best character in the game, he had crazy aerial hurricane kick setups, and a solid Hadouken, however nowhere near as good as Ryu was.
Super Street Fighter II: NW - (Ryu) Although Ryu got nerfed alot from his beastly Hyper Fighting counterpart, he was still a better character then Ken in here.
Super Street Fighter II: Turbo - (Ryu) Ryu was definetly a much stronger character then Ken in here. Faster and strong projectile game, far more useful Super Special with Shinkuu-Hadouken, in fact one of the best in the game. Putting him as Upper-Tier while Ken was in Middle Tier.
Street Fighter Alpha 1 - (Ken) Ken was arguably one of the best characters in the game, either 2nd or 3rd, only outclassed by the beastly Guy and "maybe" Akuma. Ryu was however, was one of the best in here as, although not as good overall as Ken though.
Street Fighter Alpha 2 - (Ken) Ken was a wrecking machine in Alpha2, he can be argued with Chunli as the Best Character in Alpha 2. Level 1 Custom Combo with Ken did stupid damage, and he had the BEST Alpha Counter in the game, with great damage off of a regulars, however his CC's pushed him to the brink of Top Dog. Ryu was very, very, very good in here, just not Ken Good.
Street Fighter Alpha 3 - (Ryu) Ryu easily is a far better character then Ken in here, because with V-Ism, Ryu has one of the most powerful gameplay's in Alpha 3, with only a few small openings in the chink of the armor. Ken sadly dropped down to the lower end of the Tier Listing.
Street Fighter II New Generation - (Ken) Ken was better then Ryu in here, 2-Stock Shinryuken was far too beastly, had huge suck power range, and ridiculous damage potential as well as dizzy. Ryu was okay in this version, although he had some 100% damage combos at the corner...but easier said then done though.
Street Fighter III 2nd Impact - (Ryu) Ryu was the 5th best character in 2I. He vastly improved from his NG counterpart, with a much, much faster Shinkuu-Hadouken, 2-Hit Shoryuken, and most deadly of them all, 2-Stock Denjin Hadouken with a bar as small as Ken's SAIII! Ken was almost like his 3S counterpart but slightly weaker, he was only middle-tier.
Street Fighter III 3rd Strike - (Ken) Ken obviously is the 3rd best character in 3S, and much better then Ryu in here, due to the fact that Ryu was so powerful in 2I, he had to get nerfed in this version. Ken in here is like a slightly more powerful version of his 2I version, with better cross ups, Kara-Shoryu's and he still had SAIII goodness.
So let's look at the outcome now...
Ryu - 6 Ken - 4 Tied - 1
So look at it here, overall within the original True Series of Street Fighter (Not including Spinoff's like VS, because if we did, Ryu would still overall be the better character regardless) Ryu has been for the most, the overall better character in game wise then Ken has.
Storyline wise and Gameplay Wise Overall, it's been Ryu>>>Ken.
Originally posted by JustFrameI wouldn't go that far. Ryu's never had an easy time beating Ken. EVER. Considering that Ryu trains AND fights way harder AND way more often, that fact that he doesn't flat out own Ken points to Ken's amazing natural talent. If I was far better than someone, I wouldn't just have a better record against him. I'd have a PERFECT record against him & I wouldn't even consider them a rival. Ryu is said to be = E.Ryu now anyway & he still can't fvck w/Gouki in a real fight. E.Ryu would get speedbeat & impaled by V.Ken. Also, normal versions of these 2 have no bearing on this fight....especially in Ken's case.
Dark Ryu (Not Evil Ryu, stupid English translations) would utterly destroy Violent Ken with ease.Dark Ryu would be ridiculously powerful, he would nearly be on par with someone like Gouki (Akuma) in abilities, which would push him well beyond the boundaries of even Violent Ken.
Not to mention, canon-storyline wise, Ryu is a far more powerful character then even Ken.
Originally posted by brainchild81
I wouldn't go that far. Ryu's never had an easy time beating Ken. EVER. Considering that Ryu trains AND fights way harder AND way more often, that fact that he doesn't flat out own Ken points to Ken's amazing natural talent. If I was far better than someone, I wouldn't just have a better record against him. I'd have a PERFECT record against him & I wouldn't even consider them a rival. Ryu is said to be = E.Ryu now anyway & he still can't fvck w/Gouki in a real fight. E.Ryu would get speedbeat & impaled by V.Ken. Also, normal versions of these 2 have no bearing on this fight....especially in Ken's case.
Umm, NO, maybe you haven't read the canon guide of the Street Fighter Storyline but Ryu is One Tier Higher then Ken.
The only characters considered more powerful then Ryu are Gouki, Gill, Oro, Alpha 3 M. Bison, and Ingrid.
Some are on par with Ryu or else, are under Ryu, such as Ken. E. Ryu would've been almost nearly equivelant to Alpha Gouki, and Alpha Gouki is nowhere near as powerful as the Present Day Gouki mind you.
It makes absolute sense.
Also, let me put this straight, Ryu and Ken have fought, countless, and I mean countless times, period.
Ryu was owning Ken before the events of Street Fighter 1, so Pre-SF1, Ryu was dominating over Ken. Thus the reason why Ken chose to wear a Red Gi.
Secondly, there has been only TWO confirmed Match up's of Ken winning. One was with Ryu being clouded in the mind during Alpha in which Ken won...if you even call that a win that is.
SFII would've been the only time Ken would've fought and beaten Ryu, simply because during SFII, Ken would only marry Eliza if he had beaten Ryu.
By the time SFIII comes around, we know that Ken is married with Eliza and that they have a kid named Mel. So Ken must have beaten Ryu during SFII.
However, look at the whole picture, Ryu beat Ken when they used to train together, and Ryu fought Ken in a match before Street Fighter 1 to prove his skills.
Which Ryu won, and he then entered in the SF1 tournament and defeated Sagat.
However, there fights between SFA-SF2 only have two matches between them. Ryu however defeats Ken not within the SFIII tournament but within a match up that they have by themselves, in which Ryu wins.
To say that Ken is naturally talented although he doesn't train as much is completely false.
Ken trained just as much as Ryu back in the day, however Ryu was just a better fighter then Ken was.
There is, or should not be any debate upon this. Ryu is the more dedicated and stronger individual, he even channels his ki-energy on a level that Ken could only dream of.
Not to mention if Ken was as "gifted" as you claim, then why is it, that during Alpha 3, Bison wanted only Ryu's body, simply because it was the perfect host to contain his Psycho Power.
Or why is it that Gouki only wants to confront Ryu in the ultimate match up. Why don't we throw in the fact that Ryu has inspired a whole new generation of fighters, such as Alex, Sakura, and Makoto who all know him from his status and his abilities.
More water to add, Oro chose Ryu as his pupil, because Oro saw that Ryu was the only one with potential to learn under him.
Again, how can this be argued, clearly in the storyline, Ryu is the stronger individual over Ken. The reason why Ken does well against Ryu in bouts is simply because Ken and Ryu have been training since childhood.
Simply because Ken can fight well against Ryu, doesn't mean he'll be able to contend with someone like Sagat. No offense to Ken, but if he had fought Sagat, he would've gotten destroyed.
Lastly, it's Dark Ryu, not Evil Ryu, Capcom has even stated that it was the American Translations, simply because when Ryu goes into Satsu-No-Hadou Ryu, he is not Evil whatsoever, or possessed by some devil or whatever.
That is absolutely not True, Dark Ryu is simply Ryu utilizing the full potential of Ansatsuken, because Ryu and Ken where trained with a toned down version of Ansatsuken, or the non-killing version.
Satsu-No-Hadou Ryu would be fully unleashed, and No, Violent Ken would absolutely lose to Satsu-No-Hadou Ryu.
Just think, a Shungokusatsu from Dark Ryu would send V. Ken to oblivion.