Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Does it really matter which version? Seriously, there IS only one version of Violent Ken
i know but i said the version of E. Ryu. What version of E Ryu is used not the version of V Ken
in my eyes E. Ryu was more crappy then V. Ken, he was ko'd by Shin Gouki with 2 fingers
besides of that , you were talking about Chaos copy's , can you give some more info about that?
Originally posted by peejayd
* who's attacking who? you're the one who gets so touchy when i say something negative about Ryu... i reiterated that i might be picking on Ryu but i'm not picking on you... this debate (if you can call it a debate) will not be personal if you had not been so touchy when it comes to your god, Ryu...
Ryu>Ken, case and point, canon-wise, Ryu is better...we've been through this. You failed, I've proven to you Ryu was the superior fighter, that he has more knowledge, more dedication and has proven his worth storyline wise then Ken has.
Case closed.
Originally posted by peejayd
* Capcom officially stated that gameplay-wise, they have made Ryu slightly stronger than Ken and Ken slightly quicker than Ryu...
Ken is only slightly faster, and by that, I mean, he walks slightly faster only. Also, you are absolutely wrong, Ken from CE/HF was a vastly more powerful character hit for hit then Ryu actually was.
However, Capcom's statements mean little in the notion of tiering a character. Considering that, in Alpha2, did they know that Ken had one of the most powerful Lvl CC's in the entire game, and that his AC was one of the best, if not the BEST in the game?
Did they know that Ryu with 2-stock Denjin in 2nd Impact with a bar no bigger then Ken's SAIII would make him a walking phenom monster that he was in 2I?
The answer is NO, Capcom only modifys a few things here and there, however the players themselves will play the game, and break it down, and find out advantages and disadvantages about characters.
Ryu has the better placement record tier-wise in the SF games over Ken.
Originally posted by peejayd
* you know what? the Canon guide never mentions anything like that...
He's fought over 10,000 battles, Bison tried to steal his body, he's recognized by Gouki, he's being taught by Oro because Oro believe's he's that gifted to be taught by him?
Can Ken claim anything remotely close to that???
The Canon Guide doesn't need to say Ryu>>>>Ken, it's written all over it with the storyline. Not to mention Tier wise, Ryu is above Ken.
Originally posted by peejayd
* don't give me that crap... i've seen how players from tourneys fight... do not compare yourself with them, they're good but i've seen better... not all who participated or even won there are the best of the best... it's psychological, actually... everyone is afraid to lose because it's very humiliating... i've seen better players in local arcades with nothing to lose but a single coin token...
Where are these players then? Why aren't they playing in tournaments? Are you just full of it with these remarks?
Are you to tell me that they are better then guys like Alex Valle? Who has played competition since the mid 90's to the present day against the best in ALL the world?
Are you telling me that there's better 3S players then guys like K.O. and Nuki???
Seriously...who are these guys that make the claim about, and like I said, I'm calling you out. I ain't even half as good as guys like K.O. but I guarantee these so called "unknown" players would get a stomp by me, and this is me, a long retired competitor of fighting games.
These players ain't absolutely nothing if they don't go up against the best of the games today. Like I said, if they are as good as you claim, then prove it, otherwise your talking out of your head.
Being "locally" good means absolute jack, how so? Let me tell you a story.
I went to a tournament back in the mid 90's in Chicago, I was top 3 in my Local Area for Super Street Fighter II. However, getting there, I realized how insignificant my skills where, especially up against the best players at the time, like guys like Watson, who was top 5 in the nation in the US.
He schooled everyone and showed us just how horrible we where at the game of SSFII.
Case and point, go out and prove your case before making the claim "I know guys who are better" yet they've done nothing to stake that claim...absolutely ridiculous.
Originally posted by peejayd
* you really have reading comprehension problems... where did i say that the toned down Ansatsuken was weaker? quote me... the full potential of Ansatsuken includes killing techniques, without it, it is not full, intiende? Ken & Ryu was taught without it, so it's not full... about the Metsu Shoryuken, it was one time only, it's only a fraction... the full Ansatsuken is only being witnessed in Gouki who embraced Dark Hadou...
Read again, Ryu utilizing Full Ansatsuken is a Ryu willing to KILL at all cost. Ryu utilizing the Mestu-Shoryuken is an absolute testament to my statements before.
Do not try to debunk the notion of that, Ryu was NEVER EVER taught that, and yet he unleashed it on call.
Not to mention that Gouki has even mentioned during Alpha 2, that Ryu would need to unleash his "potential" meaning fighting with the Killing Intent in order to contest Gouki.
Dark Ryu would have been a Beast period, case and point, more beastly then even V. Ken.
Originally posted by peejayd
* the statement is idiotic, not you... but if you want to be an idiot, report yourself, not me... maybe, i should be the one to report you...
Keep it about the debate and hand, and it will be cool. Calling me out a Fanboy when you have done absolutely nothing but post up comics and animes and then saying that they are "canon" as your claim...well, all I've gotta say is, who is the real fanboy then?
Originally posted by peejayd
* stop trying to put words in my mouth... quote me, i dare you... i know what i said: "Ryu is not fighting back, true, but you can see that he is trying to block Ken's attacks... Ken had broken Ryu's defense"... (http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=334270&pagenumber=7)
Do you lack common sense or what?
The simple fact is, RYU WAS NOT TRYING TO FIGHT BACK, OR WAS NOT TRYING TO BEAT KEN.
That alone tells you everything, my goodness, you make absolutely no sense at all. Your telling me, this was a "legit" battle, when Ryu didn't even fight back.
Not to mention again, that during the Ryu/Ken vs Bison...Ryu was the ONLY one to score a succession of hits on Bison, NOT Ken mind you.
Even in the anime it's Ryu>Ken.
Originally posted by peejayd
* the only thing you have is Ryu up one tier higher than Ken... everything else is exaggerated and does not have any proofs at all... reread your Canon Guide, there's nowhere that states what you blab about...
Gouki's ultimate fight is with Ryu
Ryu's body was the ONLY body able to contain the full abilities of Psycho Power in which was the reason why Bison wanted to take over Ryu's body.
Oro is now training Ryu, because Oro believes that Ryu has the most potential.
Exaggerations? Hardly? Have you even bothered to read the canon?
I guess not.
Originally posted by peejayd
* i believe you are talking about this: http://fightingstreet.com/folders/variousinfofolder/variousinfopages/streetfighterplotguide.txt* but try to scan also Wikipedia... i believe they will never load something non-canon...
Maybe you could learn a thing or two, about why Ryu>Ken storyline wise. Denial is such a painful thing, until you learn to turn a new leaf.
Tiamit's CanonGuide>>>>Wikipedia.
Originally posted by peejayd
*More crying about Ryu beating Sagat*
I won't even bother with this anymore, simply because I've told you 10,000 times already.
Let's just say Ryu "cheated" against Sagat. Does that still make Ken a better fighter then Ryu? NO Case Closed.
Originally posted by peejayd
* still as stubborn as before...
Don't make me quote you with bold underlines, SF Tournament is the #1 tournament in the SF World, no comparisons period.
Originally posted by peejayd
* this is really lame... SNK vs Capcom does not have same features with SF Alpha games...
However, that would be the only real way that they would qualify to work right? Am I right? Yes Indeed, because if I remember correctly, D. Ryu is not even in SnkvsCapcom.
The only way you could do that would be to place both of them from each of their respective appearances and compare the two.
D.Ryu>>>>V.Ken gameplay wise period. A2 CC's with D.Ryu would own V.Ken like a hot knife through butter.
What's more lame is how you still try to argue Ken being as good as Ryu.
Originally posted by peejayd
* yeah, i remember someone here saying this: "if Ken throws a Hadouken even outside sweep range, Ryu can fly right through it and punish Ken for it."... you call this knowledge? anyone can punish anyone with a mistake like that... even Dan can punish Gouki if Gouki throws a Hadouken and Dan jumps over it, leaving Gouki open for punishment... you call yourself someone who participated tourneys and give stupid scenarios like that?
Considering the invincibility frame for that Hurricane kick is only 1-FRAME...remember 1-FRAME of invincibility. It takes tons of practice to get it down correctly. Let's see if you can punish a Hadouken from outside sweep range with Ryu's Hurricane Kick without getting punished 90% of the time.
Even the BEST of the BEST during the height of CE/HF days only utilized it at the crucial and most likely effective scenarios and moments.
Your statement above tells me everything, about your lack of knowledge for the game of SF.
Jumping over a Hadouken against a good Shoto player is a super high risk move, considering that can be easily AA. Play against a good Ryu player and see how many times you can jump in for free on them.
That "stupid scenario" that call is one of the reasons why Ryu>Ken in HF. Yes...it must be so stupid...considering the BEST PLAYER in the 90's a.k.a. Tomo the Legend Ohira utilized this to full effect.
Do not talk to me about how Street Fighter is played, it's clear that I know more about it's game mechanics then you do.
I'm betting you don't even know what low, low, s.fp, QCFxxP works with which character.
Originally posted by peejayd
* according to Canon guide, it's either "Satsui no Hadou ni Mezameta Ryu" or just plain "Ryu"... Evil Ryu is never named "Evil Ryu" in the Japanese versions of the games, just "Ryu"... but the term "Evil Ryu" is too damn popular... whereas [b]your term "Dark Ryu" was nowhere found in the Canon guide... [/B]
Pmed Tiamit about Dark Ryu, and he's updating it. However, even though it's currently not in their, why does that matter, when Capcom of Japan has already officially stated that it's Dark Ryu, not Evil Ryu 🙄 .
Ryu storyline wise is better then Ken.
Ryu gameplay wise overall has been the better character over Ken.
I do not want to argue this case again, considering canon-wise and gameplay wise, it's been proven.
Originally posted by shin_remy
i know but i said the version of E. Ryu. What version of E Ryu is used not the version of V Ken
And like I said before, it's irrelevant... The differences are so minute that it doesn't bear thinking about.
Originally posted by shin_remy
in my eyes E. Ryu was more crappy then V. Ken, he was ko'd by Shin Gouki with 2 fingers
... While moving at lightspeed, meanwhile V.Ken gets DESTROYED by an overhead chop... Then E.Ryu goes on to beat S.Mr K and Godess Athena... I'm sorry, but to even damage S.Gouki, Ken had to give up his life force, while Ryu outright punches .S Mr Karate through the chest FTW. And then defeats a Goddess... More Crappy? I think not.
Originally posted by shin_remy
besides of that , you were talking about Chaos copy's , can you give some more info about that?
The version of Ryu that defeated Geese was a Cosmos copy, As was the yellow Chun Li that destroyed Demitri This Cosmos force is made up of Shin and Cap, and it was this force that merged with Gouki and transformed him into Shin Gouki.
Chaos incarnated itself first as the purple haired Iori that killed Ryu and Ryo. Then as the grey uniformed Geese who was flogging Bison until Gouki appeared. After that it appeared as the black uniformed V.Ken and killed Bison during his and Gouki's battle. the Chaos Force is made up of Dr. Jones and Proff. Chisan, and when Gouki's body rejected the Chaos force, they them merged with Mr. Karate, making him Serious Mr Karate.
Essentially the Chaos and Cosmos copies are superpowered variants of the original.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
And like I said before, it's irrelevant... The differences are so minute that it doesn't bear thinking about.... While moving at lightspeed, meanwhile V.Ken gets DESTROYED by an overhead chop... Then E.Ryu goes on to beat S.Mr K and Godess Athena... I'm sorry, but to even damage S.Gouki, Ken had to give up his life force, while Ryu outright punches .S Mr Karate through the chest FTW. And then defeats a Goddess... More Crappy? I think not.
E. Ryu is Ko'd by Shin Gouki with two fingers, that's way worser then what happend to V.Ken.
Lame argument to say, while moving at lightspeed,
it is the same when i say, he counterd V. Ken with a lightspeed attack
And it was normal Ryu that defeated the Goddes. The ending was the stupid. didn't make sense at all, you know it, i know it, we all know it
And he still didn't beat V. Ken in the comics...hhmmm
Originally posted by JustFrame
Ryu>Ken, case and point, canon-wise, Ryu is better...we've been through this. You failed, I've proven to you Ryu was the superior fighter,
* you've proven nothing but run your mouth...
Originally posted by JustFrame
that he has more knowledge,
* Ryu might have more knowledge because of experience... but they are equal at first...
Originally posted by JustFrame
more dedication
* he should be... he's a bachelor...
Originally posted by JustFrame
and has proven his worth storyline wise then Ken has.
* because Ryu is the main character of Street Fighter, don't you know that? 😐
Originally posted by JustFrame
Ken is only slightly faster, and by that, I mean, he walks slightly faster only.
* yeah, right... 😐 am i supposed to laugh now?
Originally posted by JustFrame
He's fought over 10,000 battles, Bison tried to steal his body, he's recognized by Gouki, he's being taught by Oro because Oro believe's he's that gifted to be taught by him?Can Ken claim anything remotely close to that???
* Ken defeated Ryu, it's more than enough...
Originally posted by JustFrame
The Canon Guide doesn't need to say Ryu>>>>Ken, it's written all over it with the storyline.
* if the Guide does not say so, you don't have any basis at all, mr.canonguide-knows-it all...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Not to mention Tier wise, Ryu is above Ken.
* according to the Guide, Ken's tier level also had Gen, SFZ Gouki, Rose, Nash, Urien, Cody, Guy, Cammy, Kyle and Haggar... with the exception of Gen and SFZ Gouki, Ken can beat all the others... logic - if you have one - dictates that Ken, Gen and SFZ Gouki should be on a higher tier level...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Where are these players then?
* in my country...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Why aren't they playing in tournaments?
* there's a difference between fame, money and just plainly enjoying the game...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Are you just full of it with these remarks?
* no... you are full of it... you're just all talk, but no sense at all...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Are you to tell me that they are better then guys like Alex Valle? Who has played competition since the mid 90's to the present day against the best in ALL the world?
* it is wrong to say that he had competed against the best in all of the world...
Originally posted by JustFrame
These players ain't absolutely nothing if they don't go up against the best of the games today. Like I said, if they are as good as you claim, then prove it, otherwise your talking out of your head.
* in that case, you have just proven how you suck in Street Fighter by giving stupid scenarios...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Case and point, go out and prove your case before making the claim "I know guys who are better" yet they've done nothing to stake that claim...absolutely ridiculous.
* you and your statements are ridiculous...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Read again, Ryu utilizing Full Ansatsuken is a Ryu willing to KILL at all cost.
* it is not in Ryu's character to kill at all cost... that's the reason why Capcom retconned that Ryu was seduced by Dark Hadou in that fateful match with Sagat... review the Street Fighter history...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Keep it about the debate and hand, and it will be cool. Calling me out a Fanboy when you have done absolutely nothing but post up comics and animes and then saying that they are "canon" as your claim...well, all I've gotta say is, who is the real fanboy then?
* at first, i was using comics and animes because i thought this was a friendly debate like i had with the others... lately, i was using official Capcom statement which you cannot refute up until now... and yes, you really are a Ryu-fanboy... you can deny it though...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Do you lack common sense or what?The simple fact is, [B]RYU WAS NOT TRYING TO FIGHT BACK, OR WAS NOT TRYING TO BEAT KEN.
That alone tells you everything, my goodness, you make absolutely no sense at all. Your telling me, this was a "legit" battle, when Ryu didn't even fight back.[/B]
* you really have poor reading comprehension... i did agree Ryu was not fighting back... what i was saying was, eventhough Ryu was not fighting back, he was still trying to defend himself, but the bloodlusted Ken destroyed Ryu's defense... or you can just admit you cannot understand what i'm saying...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Not to mention again, that during the Ryu/Ken vs Bison...Ryu was the ONLY one to score a succession of hits on Bison, NOT Ken mind you.
* what i know is, Ryu should have been choked to death if Ken did not arrive in time... both cannot defeat Bison one-on-one in that particular scenario...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Tiamit's CanonGuide>>>>Wikipedia.
* i haven't read anything in Wikipedia which is against the Canon Guide... it's Canon Guide = Wikipedia... the problem is your interpretation...
Originally posted by JustFrame
I won't even bother with this anymore, simply because I've told you 10,000 times already.Let's just say Ryu "cheated" against Sagat. Does that still make Ken a better fighter then Ryu? [B]NO
Case Closed.[/B]
* of course not... you just missed the point... Ryu did cheat Sagat because of a cheapshot, official Capcom stated Ryu did not won fairly against Sagat... it means, you cannot use Ryu-Sagat argument to prove Ryu's superiority on Ken... on the other hand, it was Ken who defeated Ryu without cheating, without cheapshots...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Don't make me quote you with bold underlines, SF Tournament is the #1 tournament in the SF World, no comparisons period.
* i dare you to quote me... prove how poor your reading comprehension is... i did not compare SF and US Tournaments... i just said there are also good fighters in US Tournament... Nash/Charlie is also in there, is he a good fighter or not?
Originally posted by JustFrame
However, that would be the only real way that they would qualify to work right? Am I right? Yes Indeed, because if I remember correctly, D. Ryu is not even in SnkvsCapcom.The only way you could do that would be to place both of them from each of their respective appearances and compare the two.
* you're very biased... all you're trying to do is to put all glory on Evil Ryu and discredit the power displayed by Violent Ken...
Originally posted by JustFrame
What's more lame is how you still try to argue Ken being as good as Ryu.
* what's lame is that you're denying Ken can equal Ryu...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Considering the invincibility frame for that Hurricane kick is only 1-FRAME...remember 1-FRAME of invincibility. It takes tons of practice to get it down correctly. Let's see if you can punish a Hadouken from outside sweep range with Ryu's Hurricane Kick without getting punished 90% of the time.
* you are now changing your scenario...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Your statement above tells me everything, about your lack of knowledge for the game of SF.
* look who's talking...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Jumping over a Hadouken against a good Shoto player is a super high risk move, considering that can be easily AA. Play against a good Ryu player and see how many times you can jump in for free on them.
* haven't heard of recovery time? any Shoto player cannot execute another move immediately after firing a Hadouken, not unless the game has Cancels, but even if the game has Cancels, you cannot execute another move immediately... another proof of your stupid scenarios...
Originally posted by JustFrame
Do not talk to me about how Street Fighter is played, it's clear that I know more about it's game mechanics then you do.
* yeah right, wise guy... 😐
Originally posted by JustFrame
Pmed Tiamit about Dark Ryu, and he's updating it. However, even though it's currently not in their, why does that matter, when Capcom of Japan has already officially stated that it's Dark Ryu, not Evil Ryu 🙄
* enlighten me, Ryu-fanboy... give me the website...
Originally posted by JustFrame
I do not want to argue this case again, considering canon-wise and gameplay wise, it's been proven.
* if you don't want to argue, shut the hell up... 😉
Okay, let me clear up some things here. JustFrame please read this:
Originally posted by peejayd
* that "mere puppet" kicked Ryu's a$$ as far as i remember... Ryu is not fighting back, true, but you can see that he is trying to block Ken's attacks... Ken had broken Ryu's defense...
peejayd's not saying Ryu's fighting back and he even admits it too. He's just saying Ryu was trying to defend himself. That's all he's saying. He never said Ryu was fighting back, just defending himself and Ken just simply broke through his defense. That's what he was pointing out.
And another thing, he also just simply said that the US Tournament had good fighters, he's NOT saying they're some Gens or Akumas or something, he's just saying that they are some good fighters in the tournament as there's plenty of good fighters in the Street Fighter world that aren't seen in the series.
Originally posted by shin_remy
E. Ryu is Ko'd by Shin Gouki with two fingers, that's way worser then what happend to V.Ken.
A two finger while moving at lightspeed is a much more powerful attack than it sounds Shin... You know that
Originally posted by shin_remy
Lame argument to say, while moving at lightspeed,
it is the same when i say, he counterd V. Ken with a lightspeed attack
He didn't couldter V.Ken with a lightspeed attack though, he completely neutralised the Shinbu Messatsu, then simply struck him over the head with a chop... Not the Misogi, Not even the Tenma Shurettou, but a overhead chop...
Originally posted by shin_remy
And it was normal Ryu that defeated the Goddes. The ending was the stupid. didn't make sense at all, you know it, i know it, we all know it
You wanted to use the comics, non-canon as they are, as proof of V.Ken's awsomeness... I'm sorry to say, that despite every effort, I can use the comics just as easily to prove E.Ryu is in every way better than V.Ken... 😕
Originally posted by shin_remyThe vice versa also applies, V.Ken didn't defeat E.Ryu either 💃
And he still didn't beat V. Ken in the comics...hhmmm
Originally posted by shin_remy
sorry, i have to disagree with youin my eyes; Ryu sucked in the comics even the fact he won the tournament
there were plenty fighters who were better or did better then him in my eyes.
sorry
I didn't disagree with that, but in the end, Ryu beat the unbeatable...
he felled a guy who killed the previously undefeated Genjuro, Genjuro, up until the last volume was unstoppable, yet he was killed in one move by Serious Mr. K, whom was then defeated by Ryu. it's ABC logic, but when your overpowered in one move by a super powered guy, and then that same guy gets toasted by another... it makes you think.
[hr]
Who are you calling a fanboy mr sodomy!?
j/k