Originally posted by kevdude
and The Spectre is equal to LT, one time Lucifer was moving the moon and Spectre showed up asking him why he was moving it and Lucifer told him to go away and Spectre hung his head down and left without saying anything back to him....... lol, so Lucifer wins ez.
I don't think Spectre is equal to LT.
No basically at the time of the crosovers, Living Tribunal was at the spectre's power level, however it was only after that that LT was given the kind of powers he has now, hes wayyyyy above the spectre now. however, best LT can do is destroy 1 universe at 1 time, however lucifer has 50% of the power needed to actually create his own multiverse, which makes lucifer the winner.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
No basically at the time of the crosovers, Living Tribunal was at the spectre's power level, however it was only after that that LT was given the kind of powers he has now, hes wayyyyy above the spectre now. however, best LT can do is destroy 1 universe at 1 time, however lucifer has 50% of the power needed to actually create his own multiverse, which makes lucifer the winner.
Wasn't The Infinity Saga before DC vs Marvel? LT was always at that level, more powerful than Spectre. Just cause they we're paired together does not mean their equals. Ex: Lobo Vs. Wolverine, Flash Vs. Quick Silver, Aquaman Vs. Namor, Superman Vs. Hulk, DARKSEID VS. THANOS - and we all know that Darkseid ain't no Thanos...level.
Xplosive LT judgemetn wouldn't affect on Lucifer, since Lucifer and Micheal are first son of God and LT is limited with this almighty judgesagainst Lucifer, you cannot judge God firs son.
😂 I guess someone forgot to send a memo to Fenris about 1] taking control of Lucifer and 2] killing GOD's other son Michael.
eleveninches I say lucifer would win.LT is just a servent. Lucifer is able to do whatever he wants.
He is the first son of god, and the first creation.
He created time.
How does that bare anything? God creates angels and men. Angel's servant of God, and men have free will. Yet Angels > men.
Just 'cause Lucifer has free will doesn't make him more powerful than LT. And since Lucifer doesn't work for God, and LT does - guess why God would favor? When you get down to it, both are creations of God. So why would a servant of God not be more powerful than a free willed creation? And no, free will does not equal power. I have no doubt that Presence could've killed Lucifer or force Lucifer to be his servant if he wanted.
Originally posted by Beyonder
😂 I guess someone forgot to send a memo to Fenris about 1] taking control of Lucifer and 2] killing GOD's other son Michael.
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I guess someone has forgot to mention that *BOTH* Lucifer and Michael were royally ****ed up by the creation shattering force released by the Fenris wolf BEFORE Lucifer was possessed by him and killed Michael.
Originally posted by Beyonder 😂 I guess someone forgot to send a memo to Fenris about 1] taking control of Lucifer and 2] killing GOD's other son Michael
As I remember, Fenris was only able to control Lucifer, because he has prepared for it for ages AND Lucifer was already very weakened prior to the confrontation because of the poison cherub that had him reeling.
Originally posted by BeyonderHow does that bare anything? God creates angels and men. Angel's servant of God, and men have free will. Yet Angels > men.Just 'cause Lucifer has free will doesn't make him more powerful than LT. And since Lucifer doesn't work for God, and LT does - guess why God would favor? When you get down to it, both are creations of God. So why would a servant of God not be more powerful than a free willed creation? And no, free will does not equal power. I have no doubt that Presence could've killed Lucifer or force Lucifer to be his servant if he wanted.
Ok, lets say that the Presence and TOAA are really one for arguments sake(because obviously, I dont agree with them being one).
Now, to the business at hand. I disagree with the notion of God's servants being more powerful than the "free willed creations", because, first of all, Lucifer is not just a free willed creation. He, along with Mikey, are the most powerful beings next to God, which means that God specifically created them as next to him in power WHATEVER happens to the three of them. I mean you didnt see the Angels(serving God) became more powerful than Lucifer when he stop serving God, do you?
Now this battle is a good one, and if we actually stop basing our aguments on their status as blah, blah, blah for God, and actually start basing on the things that theyve ACCOMPLISHED, then this battle wouldnt be more confusing. And as for me, Ill give this to Lucifer, because he has atleast shown his powers to be above the multiverse level(eg. the demiurgic explosion). I have yet to see LT accomplish a feat like that. But then again, Im not a keen follower of LT, so LT fans are welcome to point me out on a feat he accomplished that can rival Lucifer's, and will discuss about it.
Basically, for me, I think that TOAA and The Presence have nothing in relation to each other, save for them being the all knowing, all powerful creators of their respective multiverses, thats it. Ill just post here what I posted before on another thread as to why I dont think theyre one.
The Presence and TOAA are equal, but Ive always had my doubts about this idea of the Presence and TOAA being one because of the reason that there should only be one God. I mean ofcourse here in our real world(or in the christian faith), there should only be one God. But this is only comics, it isnt real. How can you incorporate our beliefs into this piece of paper? Its concepts doesnt even apply to our world(e.g humans with superpowers), so who's to say that the concept of God in comics is different to our world(e.g The Presence and TOAA are not one but two separate Supreme Beings).Another reason is.... Ive seen people here say that because the Presence and TOAA are one, then that means that the Living Tribunal is above all the beings in the multiverse, including Lucifer and Michael, because "God"(the supposed Presence and TOAA) made him in charge of it.
Well, that reasoning is wrong, because your only looking at what TOAA did. If your going to make this 2 beings into one, then you also should consider what the Presence did: Creating Michael and Lucifer as having NO equal and only God as above them.
Having said all that, if we link it all up, then the result will be: God created LT, Michael and Lucifer, with LT being above the 2 but at the same time the brothers are above LT.
Confusing isnt it? That is another reason why I disagree about The Presence and TOAA as being one.
Now ofcourse, this is only my own humble opinion. Im not trying to force somebody to believe in what I believe in. Thats just the way I see it. Now if anybody disagrees, thats cool with me. If anybody wants to refute my statement, then state you reasons and Ill gladly discuss it with you.