Originally posted by SynchroAnd yes Lucifer and Michael are next to The Presence. Go read the entire Lucifer Comic Book, before you start saying things.
Next to GOD? Guess what? So is LT.
Yes, LT is the will of God, but guess what? that will can only be exercised against those who exist IN THE MULTIVERSE. And guess what again? Lucifer and Michael existed BEFORE the multiverse.I will be waiting for your reply. [/B]
Yes, as lackeys created by the Presence to bring forth the Multiverse. And Lucifer needed his brother to create the entire Multiverse. And age does NOT equal power. So what if there created before the Multiverse? Does that prove that there going to be more powerful than someone came later into the Multiverse? Furthermore, can you prove that LT was created after the Multiverse was created?
And guess what? Lucifer has been weakened or hurt from beings existing in the Multiverse.
Your underestimating Fenris here. Fenris is the embodiment of Destruction and Chaos. In Norse Mythology, Fenris the Wolf, son of Loki, was said to bring about the end of the world(or in the Lucifer story, the end of the universe): Ragnarok. So going by his status how can you expect a very weakened Lucifer to beat or even avoid being controlled by him? Fenris is not just "another god".
Destruction and Chaos are below LT. Eternity/Infinity/Death/Oblivion/Choas/Order are all below the Infinity Gautlet. All of them including the IG is below LT. Fenris is still a planetary threat. Ragnorak happens to the Norse Gods. Not any other pantheon. Eternity is above such pantheons. LT is above Eternity.
If Lucifer is so powerful, why is he constantly having to deal with beings lower in the totem pole than him? The fact that he's can be weakened or hurt says alot about his vulnerability to LT. As for LT only operating in the Multiverse and Lucifer exist before or outside, it isn't much of an argument since beings lower in power than LT who also exist in the Multiverse can and have effected Lucifer.
[quote]eleveninches
God gave lucifer and michael (and hence, elaine) powers that equalled his own. The only others to have power equal to god are the prescence, and genesis.[quote]
They're equal to the Presence? Is that why they (Lucifer and Michael) needed each other to create the Multiverse? Is that why Lucifer occasionally weakened or hurt by lower beings?
Originally posted by Xplosive
I give more chance to Lucifer, why would God give more power to LT, servant than to his own son. Yes this son rebbeled, but God has nothing to worry about, God is still above anything or anyone.
Why not? LT didn't create himself. God did. Therefore, LT is also God's son.
Why would God give Lucifer more power than someone he expects to protect all his creation? Lucifer isn't the guardian and protect of the Multiverse, why should he have more power than someone who works on behalf of God to protect all creation?
LT is below lucifer in power in every way, living tribunal only has enough power to destroy one universe at a time, he can not create a universe. lucifer can create universes as he pleases and has slightly more than half of the power needed to actually create an entire multiverse. tribunal has nowhere near that much power. plus tribunal was destroyed once when thanos destroyed the entire multivrese with the heart of the universe but when lucifer killed micheal, the entire dc multiverse was destroyed and lucifer, who stood at ground zero of the demiurgic explosion, didnt so much as get a tan. lucifer can also create the other endless as he sees fit in his universe or multiverse from scratch, so now tell me, who is stronger?
Originally posted by leonheartmmDo you have proof of any of that?
LT is below lucifer in power in every way, living tribunal only has enough power to destroy one universe at a time, he can not create a universe...tribunal has nowhere near that much power.
plus tribunal was destroyed once when thanos destroyed the entire multivrese with the heart of the universe but when lucifer killed micheal, the entire dc multiverse was destroyed and lucifer, who stood at ground zero of the demiurgic explosion, didnt so much as get a tan. lucifer can also create the other endless as he sees fit in his universe or multiverse from scratch, so now tell me, who is stronger?
That's sooo different and you know it.
its not different at all, infact i forgot to mention that marvel has only 1 multiverse but DC has more than one, n lucifer was 50% responsible for creatin both, n lets not forget that the marvel MULTIVERSE was never destroyed exept for that one time with the heart of the universe, n in that the tribunal died, so when the DC multiverse was destroyed, howcome lucifer did not even get a tan? he stood right at ground zero of the demiurgic explosion that destroyed the enitre multiverse, ill tell u y, cause hes above the tribinal, and all other endless, abstracts and concepts of nature, even beyond the concept of existance and time{which he can create as he pleases from scratch by the way, sumthin the tribunal can never do} so therefore i see no differencce between the destructions of both ,multiverses.
Originally posted by leonheartmmCould it be that it wasn't just "boom, multiverse sploded" but Thanos unmade everything because he had the power to do so? I'm sure Thanos with THOTU would have no problem unmaking Lucy and Mike with a power second to no one.
[B]lets not forget that the marvel MULTIVERSE was never destroyed exept for that one time with the heart of the universe, n in that the tribunal died, so when the DC multiverse was destroyed, howcome lucifer did not even get a tan?[B]
thas just ur OPPINION, the heart of the universe just gives u power over the SINGLE MARVEL MULTIVERSE, it has no power over the beyond realm or over the one above all. lucifre is beyond the multiverse or the endless, hes had more than 50% of a hand in creatin MORE THAN ONE MULTIVERSES, hes also stood at the point where a WHOLE MULTIVERSE WAS DESTROYED and escaped without a tan{THIS is in my oppinion, every bit as equal as the destruction of the marvel multiverse at the hands of thanos with the heart of the universe}, and later he CREATED ANOTHER MULTIVERSE{givin him power over more than one multiverse as opposed to the heart of the universe which had power over just ONE MULTIVERSE}
Uhmm... I thought The Living Tribunal was second to god?
Are you people stating Lucifer is as powerful as god? Because you would have to be god to be over second to god... youd have to be first to god... which is god... or... TOAA...
Im going on another vacation... this forum seems to be... drooping...
no u dont swanky tuna, cause all u do is destroy, and put down a SINGLE multiverse, u still have no power over the beyond realm{and the one above all is supposed to have power over that too, secondly living tribunal is not as powerful as the beyonders or as powerful as the full potential franklin richards, remember, he can only destroy one universe at a time, not even 2 at a time and certainly not the entire multiverse, his judgement has been escaped before by korvac,
n i say it again n again that the destruction of the multiverse meant the end for Tribunal but it didnt even affect lucifer who the CREATED another MULTIVERSE, and theoretically, he can create as many MULTIVERSES as he wants with the help from micheal or elaine, meaning that he has the power of atleast as many HEARTS OF THE UNIVERSE as the amount of multiverses that he creates. secondly the heart is not seen to have CREATED a multiverse, it just DESTROYED THAT "ONE SINGLE MULTIVERSE" and that was the extent of its power.
thanos DESTROYED THE MULTIVERSE, not the universe, at such large scales theres no difference between unmaking and destroying, but for perspectives sake, ill tell u that that "DESTRUCTION" or unmaking, whatever it was destroyed every abstract includin infinity, eternity , n death, hey did i mention that it was the only time when THE ALMIGHTY LIVING TRIBUNAL WAS "KILLED" TOO!, so whatever it was, u can judge it by seein its affects on these ultra powerful entities.