Originally posted by TheKahn
People have shown multiple scans of people getting through the forcefield so the contention that its in inpentrable just convincing. Secondly, Superspeed is a stated superman power. However, it has NEVER been stated by Marvel or in any comic that Magneto's field is inpentrable (as Wolverine has nearly sliced him to death on more than one ocassion and a sentinel managed to wrap his body in non-metallic bindings) or that while he is in his force feild he is immovable.
Correction...nobody has shown ANY scans of the forcefield being up and Magneto being hit.
I repeat...nobody has shown ANY scans of the forcefield being up and Magneto being hit.
Magneto's forcefield is a bubble that come out of his body. In the earlier comics it looks like multiple waves forming a bubble. In the more recent comics, it's an energized bubble. If you want to know what it looks like, look at MY scans - you know, the ones where he's blocking Thor and She-Hulk attacking him at once.
So I repeat...NOBODY has proved that Magneto can be hurt or moved when his forcefield is up.
I see lots of people posting scans showing Magneto being cut, slashed, and blasted with his forcefield DOWN. Why? His forcefield is down...what was the point in doing that?
How about I start posting scans of Superman being punched by people who don't have superspeed? How about I start posting scans of Superman being taken by surprise by non-speedsters? How about I start posting scans of Superman NOT speedblitzing people and say, "See, you say Superman has superspeed, but if he didn't, wouldn't it have come in handy here? Huh? Guess he doesn't have it, does he?"
See, I can do it too. But I don't. Do you know why? Because I recognize PIS for what it is....it's done for the sake of dramatic effect.
So all those scans of Wolverine gutting Magneto because his forcefield is down? Worthless.
Magneto's forcefield has NEVER been broken. There are no scans of it being broken or penetrated. Even if we were to assume that Leo's scans showed his forcefield...it's still not been penetrated otherwise he would have been KO'ed according to him, right? So there have been NO scans shown of his forcefield being penetrated? Why? Because it's never happened.
Remember - Magneto has three levels of protection:
His EM-enhanced physiology (which grants him increased strength, durability, etc.)
His body armor, which allowed him to withstand unprotected shots to the face by the likes of Namor (thanks Darkcrawler), Colossus, and lots and lots of mutants
And THEN his forcefield...which eminates from his body in a circular/bubble pattern.
So posting scans of him getting hit when he's not using his forcefield doesn't do you any good when I'm saying that in this fight...he's using his forcefield. It's as fair as YOU all saying for this fight...Superman is using his superspeed, despite him not doing it for every fight against every opponent.
Is Magneto's forcefield utterly unbreakable? Remember it repels any energy or object directed towards it at an atomic level, thus rendering the amount of force it contains irrelevant. It would basically require a manipulation of its EM energies to disrupt it, something Superman is incapable of doing.
And that's my point....it's not that Superman isn't strong or fast - so stop posting scans of strength and speed feats. We KNOW he's stronger and faster than anybody. My point is that it's just not within Superman's POWERSET, to penetrate the forcefield, regardless of his impressive POWER LEVEL.
And none of you have proven otherwise. And until an upper limit to what his forcefield can take is shown, it's ridiculous to just *assume* that Superman can do what Galactus, Phoenix, Thor/She-Hulk, Hulk, a nuclear weapon, etc. could NOT. Could Magneto with his forcefield take two shots from Galactus? Three? Four? Until the day comes when it's broken, we don't know, and guessing a measurement is just stupid.
On the offensive...even the Superman fanboys own scans have shown Superman weakened by various draining techniques and EM-manipulators. Coldcast KO'ed Superman, Black Rock nearly killed Superman, Superman said that absorbing guy was going to kill him, Ruin made Superman so weak he could barely go hypersonic, an insane Polaris who was beating himself up weakened Superman, Manchester Black gave Superman a stroke by manipulating his blood flow to his brain (sound familiar?) And none of these guys have the three pronged attack that Magneto has of absorbing his solar energy, denying him more solar energy to recharge, and raining red solar energy on him, regardless of how fast Superman goes or where he is. Again, nobody has disproved this point. And I've posted scans of Magneto attacking people dispite there being no line of sight contact with them, and despite not even knowing where they are. Magneto had no clue where the Leningrad was when he sank it...he just envisioned it and it happened. He had no clue where Xavier was when he was attacking him. He just envisioned Xavier, wrapped him up in his own chair and sent him off. He was on the other side of the planet when he activated a volcano. I've posted scans of this. Again...it goes unrefuted by any of the angry mob. So Superman flying far and fast away doesn't matter - Magneto need only envision Superman and affects him. Magneto could be at home washing his shorts and fighting Superman. And my scans SHOW it.
So stop insulting me, whining about how I'm overpowering Magneto despite using strategies that violate Superman's own code of conduct (tossing Magneto into the sun? seriously?), stop copying and pasting from the Superman respect thread and ACKNOWLEDGE my points for once. Debate like men. There are a dozen of you and just me. Do it.
No individual responses necessary. This is addressed to all.
Originally posted by demigawd
Correction...nobody has shown ANY scans of the forcefield being up and Magneto being hit........No individual responses necessary. This is addressed to all.
Nice post man.
Mag's shield is until further comics prove... indestructible.
Superman could only win this if a) He managed to get Mag's with his shield down, or b) pulled off a cheesey super-vibration move or somesuch.
Well done for holding in there mate.
🙂
I can totally accept that Superman could beat Magneto if not for Magneto's forcefield. In an actual comic, if Magneto were written without his forcefield and Superman were written with his superspeed, Superman would win. If Magneto were written without his forcefield and Superman were written without his superspeed, it would probably be a tossup - either Superman gets to Magneto before Magneto drains him or Magneto successfully drains him an KO's him. Magneto and Superman are both portrayed without the forcefield/superspeed quite often because of PIS.
In any comic scenario in which Magneto uses his forcefield, Superman will look like Thor and She-Hulk did in that scan I posted. Then the draining begins.
That's how I ultimately see it.
Going against DC characters is a pain in the ass....and they say MAGNETO is overpowered? On one thread we have an opponent who can punch through planets at FTL speeds a billion times before a human can process a thought. On another thread we have an opponent who can evolve past ANYTHING on the fly, and on another thread we have an opponent who can turn you into a flower or manipulate your DNA so that you don't have your powers anymore.
And people complain that I'm overpowering MAGNETO because he has a really powerful forcefield and can manipulate EM energy sources?
Originally posted by demigawd
Correction...nobody has shown ANY scans of the forcefield being up and Magneto being hit.I repeat...nobody has shown ANY scans of the forcefield being up and Magneto being hit.
Magneto's forcefield is a bubble that come out of his body. In the earlier comics it looks like multiple waves forming a bubble. In the more recent comics, it's an energized bubble. If you want to know what it looks like, look at MY scans - you know, the ones where he's blocking Thor and She-Hulk attacking him at once.
So I repeat...NOBODY has proved that Magneto can be hurt or moved when his forcefield is up.
I see lots of people posting scans showing Magneto being cut, slashed, and blasted with his forcefield DOWN. Why? His forcefield is down...what was the point in doing that?
How about I start posting scans of Superman being punched by people who don't have superspeed? How about I start posting scans of Superman being taken by surprise by non-speedsters? How about I start posting scans of Superman NOT speedblitzing people and say, "See, you say Superman has superspeed, but if he didn't, wouldn't it have come in handy here? Huh? Guess he doesn't have it, does he?"
See, I can do it too. But I don't. Do you know why? Because I recognize PIS for what it is....it's done for the sake of dramatic effect.
So all those scans of Wolverine gutting Magneto because his forcefield is down? Worthless.
Magneto's forcefield has NEVER been broken. There are no scans of it being broken or penetrated. Even if we were to assume that Leo's scans showed his forcefield...it's still not been penetrated otherwise he would have been KO'ed according to him, right? So there have been NO scans shown of his forcefield being penetrated? Why? Because it's never happened.
Remember - Magneto has three levels of protection:
His EM-enhanced physiology (which grants him increased strength, durability, etc.)
His body armor, which allowed him to withstand unprotected shots to the face by the likes of Namor (thanks Darkcrawler), Colossus, and lots and lots of mutants
And THEN his forcefield...which eminates from his body in a circular/bubble pattern.So posting scans of him getting hit when he's not using his forcefield doesn't do you any good when I'm saying that in this fight...he's using his forcefield. It's as fair as YOU all saying for this fight...Superman is using his superspeed, despite him not doing it for every fight against every opponent.
Is Magneto's forcefield utterly unbreakable? Remember it repels any energy or object directed towards it at an atomic level, thus rendering the amount of force it contains irrelevant. It would basically require a manipulation of its EM energies to disrupt it, something Superman is incapable of doing.
And that's my point....it's not that Superman isn't strong or fast - so stop posting scans of strength and speed feats. We KNOW he's stronger and faster than anybody. My point is that it's just not within Superman's POWERSET, to penetrate the forcefield, regardless of his impressive POWER LEVEL.
And none of you have proven otherwise. And until an upper limit to what his forcefield can take is shown, it's ridiculous to just *assume* that Superman can do what Galactus, Phoenix, Thor/She-Hulk, Hulk, a nuclear weapon, etc. could NOT. Could Magneto with his forcefield take two shots from Galactus? Three? Four? Until the day comes when it's broken, we don't know, and guessing a measurement is just stupid.
On the offensive...even the Superman fanboys own scans have shown Superman weakened by various draining techniques and EM-manipulators. Coldcast KO'ed Superman, Black Rock nearly killed Superman, Superman said that absorbing guy was going to kill him, Ruin made Superman so weak he could barely go hypersonic, an insane Polaris who was beating himself up weakened Superman, Manchester Black gave Superman a stroke by manipulating his blood flow to his brain (sound familiar?) And none of these guys have the three pronged attack that Magneto has of absorbing his solar energy, denying him more solar energy to recharge, and raining red solar energy on him, regardless of how fast Superman goes or where he is. Again, nobody has disproved this point. And I've posted scans of Magneto attacking people dispite there being no line of sight contact with them, and despite not even knowing where they are. Magneto had no clue where the Leningrad was when he sank it...he just envisioned it and it happened. He had no clue where Xavier was when he was attacking him. He just envisioned Xavier, wrapped him up in his own chair and sent him off. He was on the other side of the planet when he activated a volcano. I've posted scans of this. Again...it goes unrefuted by any of the angry mob. So Superman flying far and fast away doesn't matter - Magneto need only envision Superman and affects him. Magneto could be at home washing his shorts and fighting Superman. And my scans SHOW it.
So stop insulting me, whining about how I'm overpowering Magneto despite using strategies that violate Superman's own code of conduct (tossing Magneto into the sun? seriously?), stop copying and pasting from the Superman respect thread and ACKNOWLEDGE my points for once. Debate like men. There are a dozen of you and just me. Do it.
No individual responses necessary. This is addressed to all.
the role of martyr doesn't suit you, demi 😉
and as much as you keep telling supes' people to stop posting scans of how strong and fast he is, you keep harping on mag's shield. i already outlined several ways that supes could win even without getting through his shield. torquasm vo and thunderclap -- shield lets in sound and tp power -- are 2 ways, ambient stellar level heat would bake him inside his shield without ever contacting the shield and it could be, blasted at mags from the moon where mags can't even affect him. even whirly's idea -- outrageous as it sounds, is a viable tactic for this forum.
in a comic this is a great fight and the edge may go to mags. but here, you seem to be disallowing the possibility that supes has options available to him beyond his speed and strength, options NOT dependent on whether mags shield is up or not.
What the hell is up with that dog? lol that's wierd... Actually I think whirly's idea is pretty dam acceptible. If supes were not in Earth, Magneto's control over Earth's electromagnetic spectrum would not affect him, and he could honestly throw rocks at him(his accuracy from distances like that is amazing) until mags got hungry and had to leave his shield. Well if mags started flying toward supes with his shield, would he have his powers in space anymore? Well, if he did, supes could just supposedly go ftl speeds and phase through his shield, since matter supposedly has no mass at ftl speeds, and once he is phased in the middle of magneto's shield he would stop moving at ftl speeds. This would work because if his matter was phased into having no mass, than his shield would have no mass to repel on the atomic level. So if Supes put his head to work he cold definately pull this off. If not, Mags would drain him and give him a stroke, then wrap him up in a ball and throw it to the moon. Or , hopefully, the sun 😛 . So I give it to superman 6/10
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Supes flies into space way beyond magnetos ability to touch him and stats tossing asteroids at almost the speed of light. Supes does not need to eat or sleep. Magneto does. The Shield stays up a couple of days. Then magneto gets squashed.
hahaha...I knew you weirdos were going to say that.
But I refer you again to the thread starter:
Magneto is recking [sic] a city and Superman comes to the rescue.....who would win the man of steel or the man who can bend steel????
Is Superman honestly going to LEAVE the battlefield and start throwing asteroids to earth IN A POPULATED CITY for DAYS to KILL an opponent?
Grow up.
No, I actually don't think he would leave the battlefield, but if superman has no mass while going ftl speeds, without an infinite source of enrgy, while magneto is already draining his energy, than wouldn't he phase through his shield since he has no mass for the shield to repel at the atomic level? Once inside it could be over in seconds
Originally posted by leonidas
the role of martyr doesn't suit you, demi 😉
??? What is that supposed to mean?
and as much as you keep telling supes' people to stop posting scans of how strong and fast he is, you keep harping on mag's shield.
Because it applies AND because it counters all of the stength/speed feats. If people are going to sit there and tell me crap about how Superman has planet-destroying power and can hit with planet destroying power a million times a picosecond, you're damn right I'm going to harp on Magneto's forcefield....who wouldn't?
i already outlined several ways that supes could win even without getting through his shield. torquasm vo and thunderclap -- shield lets in sound and tp power -- are 2 ways, ambient stellar level heat would bake him inside his shield without ever contacting the shield and it could be, blasted at mags from the moon where mags can't even affect him. even whirly's idea -- outrageous as it sounds, is a viable tactic for this forum.
Torqusm Vo is useless against Magneto, who has one of the most powerful wills in the Marvel Universe. Xavier is the premier telepath of the Marvel Universe - he couldn't put down Magneto mentally without having a whole team to help him. Read my scans. Superman doesn't even begin to have the mental feats to even make that a remotely viable option.
So that goes out the window.
Thunderclap. I think I posted a scan of Magneto warping sound and countering Banshee, whose very power is to create soundwaves. That's out too.
I refer again to the thread starter:
Magneto is recking [sic] a city and Superman comes to the rescue.....who would win the man of steel or the man who can bend steel????
So Superman is going to LEAVE the city (BFR disqualification), go to the moon and start shooting Magneto with heat vision?
See, that's the difference between me and them. THEY complain about ME because I talk about the strength of his forcefield. Meanwhile THEY come up with tactics like you and Whirly and Avalon. Throwing people into the sun? Throwing asteroids to earth? SUPERMAN?
Why resort to just juvenile techniques? Whirly and the Supes fanboys I understand, but YOU Leonidas? I expect better.
It wouldn't work anyway, because I can play that game too and just say that Magneto opens a wormhole to another dimension to escape and re-pen it on the moon and proceed to drain - or to be even more efficient and destroy Superman's nervous system. But do you REALLY need to pull out the desperation tactics and threaten to destroy the entire planet Superman is trying to protect just to beat me? Seriously?
in a comic this is a great fight and the edge may go to mags. but here, you seem to be disallowing the possibility that supes has options available to him beyond his speed and strength, options NOT dependent on whether mags shield is up or not.
Not at all....I countered them both right here. Supeman fanboys (and speedster fanboys in particular) harp on the very cheesy and annoying technique of "____ destroys the opponent before he forms a thought", thus disallowing a real and intelligent discussion of powers, battle scenarios and strategies. And it's not just this thread- it's an abused tactic on TONS of threads involving people like Superman, Flash, Silver Surfer, Gladiator, even Wonder Woman, on TONS of boards and it ruins the fun of coming to a battle board in the first place. I'm personally fed up with it and I'll be damned if, on top of all of that, the Superman supporters have to stack the deck further by saying that Magneto can't even use his forcefield.
No, not gonna happen. Not on my watch.
Originally posted by superman420sexy
No, I actually don't think he would leave the battlefield, but if superman has no mass while going ftl speeds, without an infinite source of enrgy, while magneto is already draining his energy, than wouldn't he phase through his shield since he has no mass for the shield to repel at the atomic level? Once inside it could be over in seconds
That's essentially how teleportation powers work. And in Excalibur #12, iirc, Hub tried to teleport into Magneto's forcefield and was rejected. So no, it wouldn't work.
Besides, everyone is convinced that Superman still retains his mass while going at FTL speeds. Despite the dubiousness of their science, that's the canon of it, so that's what I am (and you are) stuck with.
Originally posted by demigawd
??? What is that supposed to mean?Because it applies AND because it counters all of the stength/speed feats. If people are going to sit there and tell me crap about how Superman has planet-destroying power and can hit with planet destroying power a million times a picosecond, you're damn right I'm going to harp on Magneto's forcefield....who wouldn't?
Torqusm Vo is useless against Magneto, who has one of the most powerful wills in the Marvel Universe. Xavier is the premier telepath of the Marvel Universe - he couldn't put down Magneto mentally without having a whole team to help him. Read my scans. Superman doesn't even begin to have the mental feats to even make that a remotely viable option.
So that goes out the window.
Thunderclap. I think I posted a scan of Magneto warping sound and countering Banshee, whose very power is to create soundwaves. That's out too.
I refer again to the thread starter:
So Superman is going to LEAVE the city (BFR disqualification), go to the moon and start shooting Magneto with heat vision?
See, that's the difference between me and them. THEY complain about ME because I talk about the strength of his forcefield. Meanwhile THEY come up with tactics like you and Whirly and Avalon. Throwing people into the sun? Throwing asteroids to earth? SUPERMAN?
Why resort to just juvenile techniques? Whirly and the Supes fanboys I understand, but YOU Leonidas? I expect better.
It wouldn't work anyway, because I can play that game too and just say that Magneto opens a wormhole to another dimension to escape and re-pen it on the moon and proceed to drain - or to be even more efficient and destroy Superman's nervous system. But do you REALLY need to pull out the desperation tactics and threaten to destroy the entire planet Superman is trying to protect just to beat me? Seriously?
Not at all....I countered them both right here. Supeman fanboys (and speedster fanboys in particular) harp on the very cheesy and annoying technique of "____ destroys the opponent before he forms a thought", just disallowing a real and intelligent discussion of powers, battle scenarios and strategies. And it's not just this - it's an abused tactic on TONS of threads on TONS of boards and it ruins the fun of coming to a battle board in the first place. I'm personally fed up with it and I'll be damned if, on top of all of that, the Superman supporters have to stack the deck further by saying that Magneto can't even use his forcefield.
No, not gonna happen. Not on my watch.
Well I never said he can't use his forcefield. I just meant it shouldn't be totally indestructible, by any means. It's tyte and all he's got this badass forcefield, but I'm sure it has some weakness. Even if it doesn't, you never acknowledged my point about superman, and how you said he ahs no mass at ftl speeds, so he could just phase through it since there is no mass or energy for the shield to repel on an atomic level. And I have a tip for you as a friend. If you hate speedsters than just don't go to threads with speedsters in them becuse you already know what's going to happen. You don't need to go there because you know they are going to harp about speed speed speed. So yeah. I give it to superman 6/10 because he could possibly phase through his shield at ftl speeds, because there is no mass to repel on an atomic level. Do you think this is possible demi?
Originally posted by superman420sexy
Well I never said he can't use his forcefield. I just meant it shouldn't be totally indestructible, by any means. It's tyte and all he's got this badass forcefield, but I'm sure it has some weakness. Even if it doesn't, you never acknowledged my point about superman, and how you said he ahs no mass at ftl speeds, so he could just phase through it since there is no mass or energy for the shield to repel on an atomic level. And I have a tip for you as a friend. If you hate speedsters than just don't go to threads with speedsters in them becuse you already know what's going to happen. You don't need to go there because you know they are going to harp about speed speed speed. So yeah. I give it to superman 6/10 because he could possibly phase through his shield at ftl speeds, because there is no mass to repel on an atomic level. Do you think this is possible demi?
You probably missed it writing this post, I but responded to that already in the post above.
I also addressed the question about whether the forcefield is totally indestructable several posts ago. I said that it can be penetrated by magic, which circumvents the laws of the universe, disrupted by an disruptive energy source that would scramble the forcefield (like someone with even greater EM control, such as Silver Surfer), or the use of a top end psychic attack that Magneto isn't specifically prepared for (and no longer has his helmet). So it's not this "OOOOH SO INDESTRUCTABLE MAGNETO PWNZ ALL" forcefield that you tried horribly to make me out to saying it was. I'm just saying that none of these techniques are options for Superman, who, as my recurring and unchallenged theme goes, does not have the power SET to defeat Magneto, regardless of his higher power LEVELS.
If you're Water Man and your power over water is unlimited and you can control every once of water in the universe - your power level is unmatched. Nobody controls as much water as you do.
But if you're going against Water Destroying Man, you're fuked. No matter how powerful you are with your water.