Magneto vs Superman

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Actually, Shadowcat phased into him causing him pain. He reacted violently sending a jolt of electromagnetic energy into her.

She didn't phase through his forcefield. He was at his computer and didn't have it on. She did, however, phase through the EM field his body naturally emits (the one I said grants him enhanced durability and strength), which is what caused the feedback. And he reacted violently and hurt her while she was phased.

I didn't say she phased through his forcefield, I said she phased into him. Although having the ability to accomplish the latter should mean being able to achieve the former, as this "EM field" and his forcefield would be technically composed of the same thing.

Where has it been stated that he has enhanced durability due to an EM field?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I didn't say she phased through his forcefield, I said she phased into him. Although having the ability to accomplish the latter should mean being able to achieve the former, as this "EM field" and his forcefield would be technically composed of the same thing.

Where has it been stated that he has enhanced durability due to an EM field?

They aren't really composed of the same thing. Magneto's cells naturally eminate EM energy. It doesn't affect anybody who touches it anymore so than a giant electromagnet would. It does, however, degrade nearby electronics after long periods, which is why everything in Genosha stopped working. It also explains why Shadowcat was able to hurt him that way.

The way magneto explained it in his one shot was that the EM energy creates a stronger bond between his cells, physically making him denser than a normal human and less prone to damage, and it cut to him being punched in the face by Colossus (a feat I remember from an early X-men). It also gives him enhanced strength, and it showed him KO'ing Beast with just a punch (a feat I don't remember reading, but I'm sure happened).

His forcefield, on the other hand, works much differently. It's actually designed to interact with objects at an atomic level - something his natural EM field doesn't do.

Where does it say all this though? 😕

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Where does it say all this though? 😕

Oh, it was from the Magneto One Shot. It was released in conjunction with a few other Magneto-related comics as a lead up to his big return in Fatal Attractions. I don't remember the exact title or number since i last read it about 10 years ago, but I DO remember that it finally answered my questions about how his forcefield worked and why someone can't just throw a wooden chair through it and knock him out.

Originally posted by demigawd
[B]Ah, but see, if you're going to introduce the whole "electrons aren't faster than light" concept, then you'd have to acknowledge the idea that Superman wouldn't be able to see when he's flying FTL because his sight, even when enhanced, is based on EM. If he's attacking at FTL speeds, his attacks would have zero mass and thus wouldn't even harm an opponent.

False. Since, for these battles, Feats trump Scientific Fact.
So long as we have Superman feats to prove FTL abilities, perception, and attacks, science doesn't enter into it. Meanwhile, UNLESS Magneto PROVES via feats, FTL speeds, his plum screwed, because at that point, science restrains him.

For example, I can't use science to disprove an infinte-energy force field after feats exhibit it, but I can't use the absence of feats to start claiming Magneto has FTL reflexes/abilities. That's wishful nonsense.

Magneto gets vaporized in a fine red spray before his mind or his powers can react, period.

Originally posted by Demas
False. Since, for these battles, Feats trump Scientific Fact.
So long as we have Superman feats to prove FTL abilities, perception, and attacks, science doesn't enter into it. Meanwhile, UNLESS Magneto PROVES via feats, FTL speeds, his plum screwed, because at that point, science restrains him.

For example, I can't use science to disprove an infinte-energy force field after feats exhibit it, but I can't use the absence of feats to start claiming Magneto has FTL reflexes/abilities. That's wishful nonsense.

Magneto gets vaporized in a fine red spray before his mind or his powers can react, period.

Since we don't know the rules governing FTL movement, you can't conclusively say that FTL attacks (which wouldn't happen anyway because Superman still needs to acccelerate to FTL speeds - he's not The Runner) would automatically overwhelm an electron-based forcefield. Ignoring the science and looking at the feats - given that Superman still has to fly around stuff no matter how fast he travels, it stands to reason that he very much still interacts with sub-luminal objects with sub-luminal molecular motion.

In other words: If Superman can crash into an asteroid at FTL speeds...he can crash into a forcefield. The difference being that he'd get repelled to the next solar system in the process.

Either way...Magneto takes this.

Magneto takes it???? what the ****!

One punch from superman would move him and the earth around him sending him up his own ass, magneto is not on the same level of power here.

Read the thread.

Originally posted by demigawd
In other words: If Superman can crash into an asteroid at FTL speeds...he can crash into a forcefield. The difference being that he'd get repelled to the next solar system in the process.

The difference being that an asteroid is persistent and the force field, by your own admission, reactive. The asteroid is always there for Superman to crash into, regardless of speed. The force field only raises due to interaction and absent any Magneto FTL feats, raises at the speed of electrons- slower than c.

Leaving Magneto a fine red mist.

Originally posted by Demas
The difference being that an asteroid is persistent and the force field, by your own admission, reactive. The asteroid is always there for Superman to crash into, regardless of speed. The force field only raises due to interaction and absent any Magneto FTL feats, raises at the speed of electrons- slower than c.

Leaving Magneto a fine red mist.

You misunderstood. The forcefield isn't reactive, it doesn't go from not being there to being there when he's attacked. When it's up, it's up, but any object that comes in contact with it gets repelled at the atomic level.

You misunderstood. In a fight, absent a scenario by the OP with prep or existing conditions, Magneto starts this fight with his shields down. There's no question that Superman would vaporize Magneto before Magneto could react, raising the shields on his own. However you introduced a mechanism by which Magneto's shields raise on their own- one that you have yet to substantiate, mind you- but playing along, even those fail to raise faster than Superman.

Originally posted by Demas
You misunderstood. In a fight, absent a scenario by the OP with prep or existing conditions, Magneto starts this fight with his shields down. There's no question that Superman would vaporize Magneto before Magneto could react, raising the shields on his own. However you introduced a mechanism by which Magneto's shields raise on their own- one that you have yet to substantiate, mind you- but playing along, even those fail to raise faster than Superman.

You haven't been on a thread in a couple of days, so you missed that part of the discussion - the thread starter stipulated on page 1 that the battle starts with Magneto tearing up the city and Superman arrives on the scene. that means Magneto is already battle-ready...including the forcefield.

There's not a whole lot of reason to debate this. If magneto controls superman's bioelectric aura, then he wins. If he doesn't, then he loses.

In terms of power and feats, however, superman is FAR superior.

x sayeth:

<<BTW in this scan Magneto is not neutralizing anyone's powers. Inhibition of Cyclops powers is technological, there is an inhibitor field on the isle that affects others but not Magneto, his machine is smashed and the X-Men regain their abilities.>>

then x sayeth again:

<<Actually, Shadowcat phased into him causing him pain. He reacted violently sending a jolt of electromagnetic energy into her.>>

so she never did try to get through his field, which means it MAY be possible for supes to do something similar . . .

hmmmm . . .

seems you better watch out for x, demi. he's tripped you up a couple times . . . 😉

Originally posted by leonidas
<<BTW in this scan Magneto is not neutralizing anyone's powers. Inhibition of Cyclops powers is technological, there is an inhibitor field on the isle that affects others but not Magneto, his machine is smashed and the X-Men regain their abilities.>>

Acknowledged, though Magneto also said he had a field around Cyclops that prevented him from using his powers, so the scene itself was a bit inconsistent.

then x sayeth again:

<<Actually, Shadowcat phased into him causing him pain. He reacted violently sending a jolt of electromagnetic energy into her.>>

so she never did try to get through his field, which means it MAY be possible for supes to do something similar . . .

hmmmm . . .

I never said she did try. But I did say that Magneto's powers were able to affect her even while she was phased, as he nearly killed her. And again, because of the science of the forcefield, it would affect any object with any kind of mass that came in contact with it. Hell, even without mass, as Hub couldn't even teleport into the forcefield.

But I responded that way already, so I don't get where the "trip up" was.

Instigator. 😄

moi? 😕

😄

Originally posted by demigawd
Oh, it was from the Magneto One Shot. It was released in conjunction with a few other Magneto-related comics as a lead up to his big return in Fatal Attractions. I don't remember the exact title or number since i last read it about 10 years ago, but I DO remember that it finally answered my questions about how his forcefield worked and why someone can't just throw a wooden chair through it and knock him out.

Originally posted by demigawd
Since we don't know the rules governing FTL movement, you can't conclusively say that FTL attacks (which wouldn't happen anyway because Superman still needs to acccelerate to FTL speeds - he's not The Runner) would automatically overwhelm an electron-based forcefield. Ignoring the science and looking at the feats - given that Superman still has to fly around stuff no matter how fast he travels, it stands to reason that he very much still interacts with sub-luminal objects with sub-luminal molecular motion.

Anyways, it's been 39 pages of back and forth, and there's still only 1 vote for Magneto. I'll give you 2 guesses who, and the first don't count.