u have a point swanky tuna, but the thing is that people should realize that THOTU is "NOT" equal to THE ONE ABOVE ALL, and TOAA is the TRUE "GOD" if lucifer or micheal went up against him, they would surely fail, but THOTU is not equal to TOAA, it is only= the complete power over "1" "SINGLE" multiverse, NOT ANYTHING "BEYOND THE MULTIVERSE" eg, the beyond realm.
i say it because there is only "1" multiverse that we know of in marvel comics, secondly BEYOND THE MULTIVERSE means the BEYOND REALM, where beyinders come from and from where the energy from cosmic cubes comes from, its not part of the multiverse at all, its BEYOND IT, but im pretty sure that it is not above TOAA, or beyond TOAA
it hasent been established if the one above all has total control over all things inside the MULTIVERSE so while beyonder inside the multiverse he is below TOAA but when he is in his own realm beyond the multiverse...thats a different story.how do we know that TOAA has power over that realm......unless its a part of a larger omniverse......which tOAA controls.....
no 1 really knows anything for sure in any comic, marvel or dc, but the generally accepted storyine is this, TOAA is above anything and everything, he created 2 things in the beginning, the beyond realm and the infinite being, both completely seperate of each other, the infinte being was complete in itself and needed nothing, but in time{note that th normal TIME or existance did not exist yet as concepts, the infinte being came in touch with the emotion of loneliness and sadness because it was all alone, it then commited suicide and created the marvel multiverse that exists now, now with the creation of the multiverse, all the abstracts were created and TOAA made the living tribunal to keep the multiverse in harmony etc etc, but the beyond realm was never part o the multiverse, and was unlimited in size, THOTU is the complete power over the marvel multiverse, but logically it should not have power over anything BEYOND THE MULTIVERSE, so it has no connection with the beyond realm, it is because the beyond realm is above all the concepts and boundries of the multiverse that true beyonders have such unbelievable omnipotent powers and even the smallest leak of energy from the beyond realm in the marvel multiverse makes powerful beings like cosmic cubes.
Originally posted by eleveninches
In the 'mansions of silence' storyline, around the time when the nalfagar was being shipwrecked, michael and lucifer were talking to each other, and lucifer says 'God gave us power equal to his own, and then forbid us to use it'
It doesnt make any sense at all but Im gonna take your word for it. Although it may take me a long time for me to get the issue. But I wont forget what you said.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
lucifer HAS outsmarted BOTH GOD, AND THE PRESENCE and made their schemes FAIL, even WITHOUT HIS POWERS{when lucifer was no more powerful than a human} using ONLY HIS WIT AND MIND, it doesnt matter if the presence is completely omnipotent or not, LUCIFER "HAS" OUTSMARTED IT.
When did Lucifer outsmarted The Presence? Did The Presence made a scheme that actually failed against Lucifer? I missed that.
Lucifer has ESCAPED the Presence's omniscience though if your referring to the creation of Lucy's multiverse, because the Presence had no idea that Lucifer planned to create a multiverse of his own. The Presence only knew of it after Lucy's multiverse was created. But, as far as Im concerned, thats not outwitting the Presence because in that whole arc, the Presence didnt made any move or planned anything against Lucifer, I can even argue that Presence didnt even bother to figure out whats on Lucifer's mind at all. Lucifer was the one who made a move and LUCKILY he escaped the all-knowing Presence(I seriously doubt he could do it a second time though).
Other than that, I dont remember anything of The Presence actually making a scheme against Lucifer and failed. So can you enlighten me on that?
TOAA can controll only one Multiverse just like the DCU has its own ruler and not all of dimensions can be unmade if youve read Thanos: The End Adam Warlock survived cause He was in a place outside the multiverse at the time Lucifer Morningstar also traveld beyond the Multiverse when He wanted to make His own universe to rule outside of the multiverse beyond the DC gods controll and anyway Lucifer Morningstar also servived and explosion able to destroy a multiverse i think that they really are that powerful Archangel Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar i think they really are that powerful enough to servive THOTU maybe not on one on one battle but i dont think it has enough power to totally whipe out such powerful entities i think after a while they could eventually take THOTU down if they teamed up. But since this is just Micheal i guess it would take all He had to win.
well since God has given Lucifer and Michael power that can equal his own, then I would say Michael would win if God let him use his full power, if he didn't then I would say anyone with the HOTU would win, (but seeing that they both are his 2 favorites he would prob let Michael use his full power).
on another note their is 2 beings that qualify as God, it is The Source and The Presence and since The Presence has something that predates himself then The Source must be GOD. The Source is all and beyond all. When ppl talk about The Presence they are talking about the Light and Hope a aspect of The Source (God) , and when ppl talk about The Great Evil Beast they are talking about the Darkness and Sin. At the beginning GOD separated the Darkness from The Light and saw that it was good, this is the very first Big Bang, The Presence received the greatest portion of that energy, The Great Beast on the other hand was not allowed in creation because it was made to be The Presence only equal and opposite. The ONLY thing that can pre-date The Presence is someone that came from God himself, this matches The First of the Fallen storyline and he IS Satan. i believe that The Presence proceeds from the Father, he is a being of Light and Hope. When Lucifer fell from Heaven he met Sin (Satan) and after a bit Lucifer told Sin to get out of his way or he would destroy him. so after all that I myself would put Michael above anyone with THOTU, NOBODY can compare with God's most favorite and best created sons.
This is how I would rate the most powerful:
1. God the Father (The Source).
2. Lucifer/Michael/Jesus.
3. TOAA/"The Presence"/The Great Evil Beast.
4. Living Tribunal/The Spectre/The Word.
TOAA and The Presence are at 3 because they are pretty much the rulers of their multiverse's, but make no mistake about it God (Yahweh/The Source) is the 1 on the thrown in Heaven, the reason the DCU is falling apart is because Yahweh has left and of course when he left there was nothing holding the Light and Darkness apart so everything is beginning to come down around everyone. If anyone wants sites to go to that i have found i can give u them but i gotta get to bed lol. lataz
ps.... Michael WINS 😉
I don't see how you can be "God", TOAA, and not be at the top of the list with the "God" of other companies. Just because other multiverses aren't mentioned, that doesn't mean they don't exsist. Or exsist at all since we don't really know if Marvel uses the multiple-multiverse system do we? Or because Thanos didn't get the "beyond realms", TOAA doesn't have power over them. There are many explanations for that.
Each multiverse has its own top dog i mean DC and Marvel are two sepreate companies they have the right to do that its there creations. Now if you thought of it who ever was the boss of the Omniverse would be the true top dog of all since the Omniverse has every single bit of reality in it from DCU to MU to even the real world so they say.
Originally posted by Mider
Each multiverse has its own top dog i mean DC and Marvel are two sepreate companies they have the right to do that its there creations. Now if you thought of it who ever was the boss of the Omniverse would be the true top dog of all since the Omniverse has every single bit of reality in it from DCU to MU to even the real world so they say.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
other than that, micheal or mucifer alone can actually CREAT all the endless from SCRATCH, and can also RULE with complete onmnipotence any 1 multiverse that they have created,and XPLOSIVE, before u say that i said "DISGUSTING THINGS" maybe u should actually READ any god damn lucifer comics, lucifer HAS outsmarted BOTH GOD, AND THE PRESENCE and made their schemes FAIL, even WITHOUT HIS POWERS{when lucifer was no more powerful than a human} using ONLY HIS WIT AND MIND, it doesnt matter if the presence is completely omnipotent or not, LUCIFER "HAS" OUTSMARTED IT.
Again disgusting, The Presence is immesurably more pwoerful and intellgient. Kevdude, giving Lucifer above TOAA or Presence, LOL, above the one who created Lucifer, lol. Lucifer created own Multiverse, you do realize that TOAA could end that Lucifer Multiverse with blink of an eye, I mean, sorry, but you do relaize that this is one of the most stupid thing anyone coul ever say.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I don't see how you can be "God", TOAA, and not be at the top of the list with the "God" of other companies. Just because other multiverses aren't mentioned, that doesn't mean they don't exsist. Or exsist at all since we don't really know if Marvel uses the multiple-multiverse system do we? Or because Thanos didn't get the "beyond realms", TOAA doesn't have power over them. There are many explanations for that.
TOAA has power over then, TOAA is above all mulitversese, above anything and has pwoer above anything.
For clarification purposes, what is everyone's definition of "multiverse"?
For me, multiverse reminds me of Sliders with each alternate reality being part of a multiverse but existing in its own universe. The Ultimates books said to be in a completely different continuity on their own and not just another universe or alternate reality like AoA and the like are they not?
So it would look like this little tree I cobbled up: A Each branch off Tribunal would equal a multiverse. I only used two for simplicity's sake. Each Earth representing a separate "continuity". Each continuity having its own alternate realities. Each reality having it's own Odins, Watoombs, and Mephistos. Each Odin, Watoomb, and Mephisto having their own dimension linked to their universe.
So in essence, 616's continuity would be like Sliders. Infinite alternate realities. A multiverse.
Ultimates would be an entirely different Sliders with its own infinite alternate realities. Another multiverse.
Unless of course it turns out the Ultimates are an alternate reality. Then everything I said and cobbled is bunk.
swanky tuna, the multiverse is an infinite number of universes connected end on end in a sort of loop, that goes on forever, now there can be more than 1 loop or multiverse, completely seperate of one another's reality, but the realms of mephisto etc, are just slightly different parts of universes{not multiverses, they r not that significant}.
xplosive, now UR STARTIN TO "DISGUST" NO, "REVOLT" ME, did u even read my posts, i never said that the presence was not more powerful than lucifer, even god{which is a small face of the presence } is generally thought to have more power than lucifer, but in terms of intelligence, lucifer has beaten them n its not sumthing that u can reason with, its happened in the comics many times n u cant change that, secondly people seem to think tht THOTU, gives the posessor the same power as that of TOAA, but infact the only power that the holder of THOTU has is the power over the entire{singular} marvel multiverse, nothing beyond that, so even though THEY ARE EFFECTIVELY MADE "GOD" inside the multiverse, the power does not extend to anything other than the multiverse or beyond it. i have no problem accepting the fact that TOAA could kick micheal and lucifer's ass any given day, but i do not accept that THOTU is equal to TOAA, and hence i do not accept that it can harm lucifer at all,
now TOAA has power over the beyond realm too, n thas sumthing that THOTU does not have power over,
and lucifer and micheal are not governed by the will of god, meaning that their powers are not dependant on what god wills them to have, {thats spectar, whose powers are given by god}, actually lucifer and micheal have power that rival that of GOD {but is probably slightly lesser than his in terms of raw amounts of power}
Originally posted by leonheartmmThat's basically what I said.
swanky tuna, the multiverse is an infinite number of universes connected end on end in a sort of loop, that goes on forever, now there can be more than 1 loop or multiverse, completely seperate of one another's reality, but the realms of mephisto etc, are just slightly different parts of universes{not multiverses, they r not that significant}.
If Thanos didn't take out the other multiverses and all the beyond realms, it could quite possibly be because he didn't know about them or couldn't comprehend them.
