Galactus W/HOTU VS. Archangel Michael

lucifer was mind controlled by fenris, one of the most powerful, smart and dangerous threats to all of creation, ur makin it sound like some regular ****in telepath took control of lucifer's mind.

"HOTU is bound by nothing, it’s a force with no equal"

prove it

"That alone says he can do what he likes."

thas the stupidest n most childish way of sayin that u dont wanna accept anythin other than what u want to believe.

"And recreating is different from creating
Flawed logic"

so far i havent seen u or any1 else give any better logic

"How many multiverse etc doesn’t mean jack shit."

n why doesnt it mean "JACK SHIT" do u have any back to ur stupid claims?

It really doesn't matter how many multiverses there are. There could be one or a trillion, it wouldn't change a thing.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lucifer was mind controlled by fenris, one of the most powerful, smart and dangerous threats to all of creation, ur makin it sound like some regular ****in telepath took control of lucifer's mind.

"HOTU is bound by nothing, it’s a force with no equal"

prove it

"That alone says he can do what he likes."

thas the stupidest n most childish way of sayin that u dont wanna accept anythin other than what u want to believe.

"And recreating is different from creating
Flawed logic"

so far i havent seen u or any1 else give any better logic

"How many multiverse etc doesn’t mean jack shit."

n why doesnt it mean "JACK SHIT" do u have any back to ur stupid claims?

He showed that LT was no match for him

LT -- Power over Mulitiverse.

The fact is Lucifer was mind controlled that says a lot.

I already showed you that Thanos is everything , everywhere , everyone.

If Lucifer was in marvel --- Lucifer will be part of HOTU that’s just how it goes.

Read “The end “if you did read it read it again.

- Defeated LT(power over multiverse)
- He destroyed everything , Remade it(now that’s different from creating wow every logical)
- The fact is HOTU was everything in the marvel universe so if Lucifer and M are also part of HOTU.

Lucifer was mind controlled (wow that multiverse he created really showed that he was all that? Like I said if someone can mind control his ass it shows he is not supreme)

Thanos = God’s power
Lucifer = god’s creation (Fraction of God’s power)

You make it seem that Lucifer is all that because he created a multiverse.

What was in this multiverse. (Name me the universes, and beings that inhabited these universes?)

Read the “the end” it will show you that Thanos has no equal in power.

Thanos(HOTU) = God of marvel universe.(Everything , everywhere)
So lucifer whould be part of Thanos(HOTU)

Originally posted by leonheartmm
swanky tuna, the multiverse is an infinite number of universes connected end on end in a sort of loop, that goes on forever, now there can be more than 1 loop or multiverse, completely seperate of one another's reality, but the realms of mephisto etc, are just slightly different parts of universes{not multiverses, they r not that significant}.

xplosive, now UR STARTIN TO "DISGUST" NO, "REVOLT" ME, did u even read my posts, i never said that the presence was not more powerful than lucifer, even god{which is a small face of the presence } is generally thought to have more power than lucifer, but in terms of intelligence, lucifer has beaten them n its not sumthing that u can reason with, its happened in the comics many times n u cant change that, secondly people seem to think tht THOTU, gives the posessor the same power as that of TOAA, but infact the only power that the holder of THOTU has is the power over the entire{singular} marvel multiverse, nothing beyond that, so even though THEY ARE EFFECTIVELY MADE "GOD" inside the multiverse, the power does not extend to anything other than the multiverse or beyond it. i have no problem accepting the fact that TOAA could kick micheal and lucifer's ass any given day, but i do not accept that THOTU is equal to TOAA, and hence i do not accept that it can harm lucifer at all,
now TOAA has power over the beyond realm too, n thas sumthing that THOTU does not have power over,
and lucifer and micheal are not governed by the will of god, meaning that their powers are not dependant on what god wills them to have, {thats spectar, whose powers are given by god}, actually lucifer and micheal have power that rival that of GOD {but is probably slightly lesser than his in terms of raw amounts of power}

I said that Kevdude said Lucier is above Presence, not for you. At least you said TOAA has power also beyond realm too (he could end the multiverse that Lucifer created easily), logicly speaking, he proablby at first created that realm. Of cousrs HOTU is not equal to TOAA, no one is. And no matter how much power Lucifer has, that pwoer will always be only fraction of God alimightiness, and actully that fraction is enough to create Multiverse.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
If Thanos didn't take out the other multiverses and all the beyond realms, it could quite possibly be because he didn't know about them or couldn't comprehend them.

Thanos with HOTU could take any beyond realm or any other multiverse, or let says somehing that is much more than Multiverse, whole Marvel Universe. His pwoer was beyond any realm, he ahd pwoer beyond anything. His pwoer would awlays be and no one would be able to challgene him and beat him, except God=TOAA. And logicly speaking, Lucifer power is also fraction of Thanos with HOTU. leonheartmm, you must except that Lucifer is actully mere of insect comapred to TOAA, he can't do to TOAA nothing more than antz could do. And I think THOTU would smash Lucifer with bllink of an eye and his own multiverse and his hell.

Originally posted by kevdude
well since God has given Lucifer and Michael power that can equal his own, then I would say Michael would win if God let him use his full power, if he didn't then I would say anyone with the HOTU would win, (but seeing that they both are his 2 favorites he would prob let Michael use his full power).

eleveninches phrases it as "God gave US power equal to his own, and then forbid US to use it"

Base on that statement, it could just mean that Lucifer and Michael COMBINED has powers equal to him. I seriously doubt individually they are equal to him. Because if that's the case then that would mean the Presence only has HALF the power to create a multiverse(just like Mikey and Lucy).

Originally posted by kevdude on another note their is 2 beings that qualify as God, it is The Source and The Presence and since The Presence has something that predates himself then The Source must be GOD. The Source is all and beyond all. When ppl talk about The Presence they are talking about the Light and Hope a aspect of The Source (God) , and when ppl talk about The Great Evil Beast they are talking about the Darkness and Sin. At the beginning GOD separated the Darkness from The Light and saw that it was good, this is the very first Big Bang, The Presence received the greatest portion of that energy, The Great Beast on the other hand was not allowed in creation because it was made to be The Presence only equal and opposite. The ONLY thing that can pre-date The Presence is someone that came from God himself, this matches The First of the Fallen storyline and he IS Satan. i believe that The Presence proceeds from the Father, he is a being of Light and Hope. When Lucifer fell from Heaven he met Sin (Satan) and after a bit Lucifer told Sin to get out of his way or he would destroy him. so after all that I myself would put Michael above anyone with THOTU, NOBODY can compare with God's most favorite and best created sons.

This is how I would rate the most powerful:

1. God the Father (The Source).
2. Lucifer/Michael/Jesus.
3. TOAA/"The Presence"/The Great Evil Beast.
4. Living Tribunal/The Spectre/The Word.

TOAA and The Presence are at 3 because they are pretty much the rulers of their multiverse's, but make no mistake about it God (Yahweh/The Source) is the 1 on the thrown in Heaven, the reason the DCU is falling apart is because Yahweh has left and of course when he left there was nothing holding the Light and Darkness apart so everything is beginning to come down around everyone. If anyone wants sites to go to that i have found i can give u them but i gotta get to bed lol. lataz
ps.... Michael WINS 😉

Nope, sorry. The Presence is THE God of DCU and TOAA is THE God of MU. There is no power above them.

The Source isnt THE God. Proof: When Lucifer went to the edge of the universe to see everythng thats happening in the multiverse(he was watching Amenadiel attack his bar, while at the same time, he was looking for Michael), he met The Source. And this is what exactly was said:

"........he doesnt think twice about stuff like that. So he went to the edge of everything. There's something out there called The Source, But thats not what he was after, in fact, he IGNORED it." Lucifer #11

So no, The Source is not THE God. And if your going to give me facts, please dont give me references to articles that are meant to be applicable in our real world, because the real world does not entirely relate to the comics world. Give me facts that was said IN the Comics.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
xplosive, now UR STARTIN TO "DISGUST" NO, "REVOLT" ME, did u even read my posts, i never said that the presence was not more powerful than lucifer, even god{which is a small face of the presence } is generally thought to have more power than lucifer, but in terms of intelligence, lucifer has beaten them n its not sumthing that u can reason with, its happened in the comics many times n u cant change that

And I ask you again: when did Lucifer outwitted The Presence?

Originally posted by kgkg
Lucifer was mind controlled (wow that multiverse he created really showed that he was all that? Like I said if someone can mind control his ass it shows he is not supreme)

Now I dont disagree with both you and Swanky Tuna's arguments about HOTU and the MU multiverse, but I will say this again and again and again until you STOP bringing up Fenris in every discussion about Lucifer: Lucifer(and Michael) was already HEAVILY damage BEFORE their encounter with the wolf. Can you please understand that? Ive already said this many times here in KMC, but you continue to ignore it.

It’s not my opinion that's what Thanos with HOTU said.

yea but a lot of other people have SAID a lot of things about there beeing no1 equal to them in power, are u just gonna take thanos's word for it inspite of all the logical evidence that suggests otherwise?

He showed that LT was no match for him

yea LT was no match for him, but then again lucifer has shown power far beyond that of the tribunal, and secondly tribunal was the 1 for big words but in the end he got crushed, which proves my first point that u shud look more at the evidence than at what 1 person says at 1 point in time

LT -- Power over Mulitiverse
yea n thas nuthing compared to the power of a being that can create entire multiverse'S without exhausting his powers or can stand at the place of destruction of the multiverse and not even get a paper cut.

The fact is Lucifer was mind controlled that says a lot.

all that says is that lucifer is not perfect and there are beings in THE DC UNIVERSE that CAN{but probably wont} get the better of him if they are lucky or if they have an advantage, but there are NO BEINGS artifacts yet seen in the marvel universe that could do that{other than perhaps the beyonder, TOAA, or full potental franklin richards}

I already showed you that Thanos is everything , everywhere , everyone.

no u didnt, u never showed any logical proof to back that up other than THANOS's own words which directly do not say anything at all. plus i already told you, there is a lot more of EVERYTHING AND EVERYWHERE in the DC universe than there is in the marvel universe, plus theres no reason to believe that THANOS had power over something outside the multiverse{the beyond realm}

If Lucifer was in marvel --- Lucifer will be part of HOTU that’s just how it goes.

there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for that to happen, when he was inside the dc multiverse, he wasnt part of it, he was still beyond it, which was further proven by him surviving the demiurgic explosion, just like the beyonder in marvel, even though he was inside the marvel multiverse, he was still beyond the living tribunal and hence beyond the multiverse

Defeated LT(power over multiverse)
- He destroyed everything , Remade it(now that’s different from creating wow every logical)

defeating livig trubuanl gives u the power over "ONE"{1} MULTIVERSE, not 2 not 3, just 1, and nothing beyond it.
no my point was that destroying and remaking multiverses is different from having the power to escape the bound of 1 multiverse and creatin another one that exists simultaneously to the first

- The fact is HOTU was everything in the marvel universe so if Lucifer and M are also part of HOTU.

thas no fact, although its is true that THOTU will give u power over 1 multiverse, but as ive explained before, it doesnt give u power over anything other than that, and it shouldnt have any control over beings that are beyond the multiverse, like micheal or lucifer

Lucifer was mind controlled (wow that multiverse he created really showed that he was all that? Like I said if someone can mind control his ass it shows he is not supreme)

i never said that lucifer was supreme, he was taken advantage of by fenris and mind controlled, fenris was a threa to all reality, whats ur point by tryin to mock lucifer? i never said that he was supreme, but what i did say was that he would beat THOTU, because THOTU 1) isnt supreme{n ive given enough proof of that 2) there are many beings above THOTU in DC as opposed to marvel who has only the beyonders and TOAA.

Thanos = God’s power
Lucifer = god’s creation (Fraction of God’s power)

thanos is not equal to god's power, he only has power over "ONE"

It’s not my opinion that's what Thanos with HOTU said.

yea but a lot of other people have SAID a lot of things about there beeing no1 equal to them in power, are u just gonna take thanos's word for it inspite of all the logical evidence that suggests otherwise?

He showed that LT was no match for him

yea LT was no match for him, but then again lucifer has shown power far beyond that of the tribunal, and secondly tribunal was the 1 for big words but in the end he got crushed, which proves my first point that u shud look more at the evidence than at what 1 person says at 1 point in time

LT -- Power over Mulitiverse
yea n thas nuthing compared to the power of a being that can create entire multiverse'S without exhausting his powers or can stand at the place of destruction of the multiverse and not even get a paper cut.

The fact is Lucifer was mind controlled that says a lot.

all that says is that lucifer is not perfect and there are beings in THE DC UNIVERSE that CAN{but probably wont} get the better of him if they are lucky or if they have an advantage, but there are NO BEINGS artifacts yet seen in the marvel universe that could do that{other than perhaps the beyonder, TOAA, or full potental franklin richards}

I already showed you that Thanos is everything , everywhere , everyone.

no u didnt, u never showed any logical proof to back that up other than THANOS's own words which directly do not say anything at all. plus i already told you, there is a lot more of EVERYTHING AND EVERYWHERE in the DC universe than there is in the marvel universe, plus theres no reason to believe that THANOS had power over something outside the multiverse{the beyond realm}

If Lucifer was in marvel --- Lucifer will be part of HOTU that’s just how it goes.

there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for that to happen, when he was inside the dc multiverse, he wasnt part of it, he was still beyond it, which was further proven by him surviving the demiurgic explosion, just like the beyonder in marvel, even though he was inside the marvel multiverse, he was still beyond the living tribunal and hence beyond the multiverse

Defeated LT(power over multiverse)
- He destroyed everything , Remade it(now that’s different from creating wow every logical)

defeating livig trubuanl gives u the power over "ONE"{1} MULTIVERSE, not 2 not 3, just 1, and nothing beyond it.
no my point was that destroying and remaking multiverses is different from having the power to escape the bound of 1 multiverse and creatin another one that exists simultaneously to the first

- The fact is HOTU was everything in the marvel universe so if Lucifer and M are also part of HOTU.

thas no fact, although its is true that THOTU will give u power over 1 multiverse, but as ive explained before, it doesnt give u power over anything other than that, and it shouldnt have any control over beings that are beyond the multiverse, like micheal or lucifer

Lucifer was mind controlled (wow that multiverse he created really showed that he was all that? Like I said if someone can mind control his ass it shows he is not supreme)

i never said that lucifer was supreme, he was taken advantage of by fenris and mind controlled, fenris was a threa to all reality, whats ur point by tryin to mock lucifer? i never said that he was supreme, but what i did say was that he would beat THOTU, because THOTU 1) isnt supreme{n ive given enough proof of that 2) there are many beings above THOTU in DC as opposed to marvel who has only the beyonders and TOAA.

Thanos = God’s power
Lucifer = god’s creation (Fraction of God’s power)

thanos is not equal to god's power, he only has power over "ONE"
multiverse, nothing more, as opposed to TOAA, who has power over the beyond realm too, lucifer is the creation of GOD, that is THE PRESENCE, but he has far more powers than THOTU, if THOTU was equal to TOAA, than lucifer would be in trouble, bt its proven to be below TOAA, which is why its not above lucifer

You make it seem that Lucifer is all that because he created a multiverse.

lucifer IS all that, im not tryin to say anything on my own, all ive given are referrences to the things he's done in the past, he HAS shown to be capable of all those thingd, n he has to date, created 3 multiverses that i know of, get it in ur head , LUCIFER "IS" ALL THAT

What was in this multiverse. (Name me the universes, and beings that inhabited these universes?)

how the hell should i know what was in them, i already told u that the first multiverse was the normal DC multiverse, the second one was HELL, and the third one is the one lucifer currently made{all by himself without any help that i know of} and in which he resides in n lets any being that does not want to live under god reside with him with no rules or limitations of god, i dont know what beings live in these but why is that important? n last time i checked, universes and multiverse didnt have name. looks to me like ur tryin to dismiss the whole fact that lucifer created multiverses

Thanos(HOTU) = God of marvel universe.(Everything , everywhere)
So lucifer whould be part of Thanos(HOTU)

wrong again, THOTU is NOT equal to TOAA, its only equals power over 1 multiverse, n nothing beyond it{n theres no reason to think that it has power over the beyond realm, it doesnt n thats been logically proven

Thanos with HOTU could take any beyond realm or any other multiverse, or let says somehing that is much more than Multiverse, whole Marvel Universe. His pwoer was beyond any realm, he ahd pwoer beyond anything. His pwoer would awlays be and no one would be able to challgene him and beat him, except God=TOAA. And logicly speaking, Lucifer power is also fraction of Thanos with HOTU. leonheartmm, you must except that Lucifer is actully mere of insect comapred to TOAA, he can't do to TOAA nothing more than antz could do. And I think THOTU would smash Lucifer with bllink of an eye and his own multiverse and his hell

again, theres is NO PROOF THAT thanos with the HEART OF THE UNIVERSE has power over anything BEYOND that one single multiverse,
n i AGREE WITH THE SECOND PART, LUCIFER AND MICHEAL "ARE" ANTS INFRONT OF TOAA, i have NO problem with accepting that fact but my whole argument is that THOTU is nowhere near as powerful as TOAA, n thas why it doesnt have power over micheal or lucifer.

i gotta nothing to prove it seem you are not getting what am saying.

One multiverse or many doesn't mean shit.

Lucifer is creation of God. (Has been mind controlled)
If you see someone mind controlled LT let me know
We will talk

You keep going on and about multiverse it doesn’t mean shit.

Why did he get mind control?

LT = Lucifer in power.

Just cuz someone doesn't destroy the universe doesn't mean he can't do it.

LT=Lucifer>IG

kgkg. u ARE HOPELESS, IM SURE EVEN AN ANIMAL WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD BY NOW, U R SAYIN THE SAME SHIT OVER N OVER AGAIN, WHICH I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED A THOUSAND TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
looks like u just want me to keep writin long ass replies n gettin tired while in the end, all u have to do is dismiss all that ive said as complete bullshit, i dont get what ur roblem is, u probably dont even read my damn posts or even part of them.

well all you been saying is power over one multiverse bullshit.

whatever dude, im not gonna waste my time here anymore

Good me too. You seem to have convinced nobody.

Nice try, you do seem to know a lot about comics but you're getting all these crazy idea that are not logical.

thats wierd, coming from a man that doesnt seem to have been born with the human trait of common sense and whose posts contain NO LOGIC WHATSOEVER, n just cause u rent convinced doesnt mean no1 else is.

Synchro the only article that I put up that was not a article of comics was 1 explaining what The Word was, The Word is the same thing in the DCU/Vertigo as in the real world. 2nd If u really do want a site explaining and telling everyone that The Source is GOD then I will give you not 1 but 3 sites that are in Comics to go to and check it out, here they are 🙂
http://www.dcuguide.com/History/History_Beginning.php
http://www.sean-walsh.com/newgods/ngfaq.htm\
http://www.comicboards.org/lucifer/LuciferStory.html

also another name for The Presence is The Voice.. The Presence/The Source are aspects of each other or they are 2 different names for the same being, the source/the presence lives in the highest tower in the Silver City that over watches EVERYTHING. now thinking about it I would put THE PRESENCE at number 1 as well. the only 2 beings that would begin to have the power that God is on is Lucifer and Michael...

ps Michael still wins 😛

Galactus with the Heart of the Universe? He'd be just below TOAA. Michael gets owned.

Originally posted by kevdude
Synchro the only article that I put up that was not a article of comics was 1 explaining what The Word was, The Word is the same thing in the DCU/Vertigo as in the real world. 2nd If u really do want a site explaining and telling everyone that The Source is GOD then I will give you not 1 but 3 sites that are in Comics to go to and check it out, here they are 🙂
http://www.dcuguide.com/History/History_Beginning.php
http://www.sean-walsh.com/newgods/ngfaq.htm\
http://www.comicboards.org/lucifer/LuciferStory.html

also another name for The Presence is The Voice.. The Presence/The Source are aspects of each other or they are 2 different names for the same being, the source/the presence lives in the highest tower in the Silver City that over watches EVERYTHING. now thinking about it I would put THE PRESENCE at number 1 as well. the only 2 beings that would begin to have the power that God is on is Lucifer and Michael...

ps Michael still wins 😛

See, the problem with the sites that you gave was that those sites are unofficial and are prone to mistakes. What I meant was give me facts that are exactly in the comics itself(i.e comic issues and such). Ive given you reference which states that The Source CANT be the Presence: Lucifer #11

dcuguide's history of DCU have DIRECTLY contradicted what was established in the Lucifer Comic Book ITSELF.

In the dcuguide, it was stated that AFTER the multiverse was created, The Source came into existence and then Lucifer, The Angels, The Endless, etc. came next. But in Lucifer(#26), it was stated that BEFORE the multiverse was created the Presence was already in existence. Then he created Lucifer and Michael which shortly AFTER that the universe/multiverse was created(courtesy of Mikey and Lucy). Thats what was said. Even dcuguide.com itself stated it in Lucifer's Bio, which would mean that dcuguide.com contradicts ITSELF.

And no. The Source does NOT reside in the Silver City. It was EXACTLY shown in Lucifer #11 that The Source resides at the edge of creation. He's a big, giant yellowish rock-like kind of guy. And Lucifer came there and stood in The Source's shoulder without any objections from The Source.

The Voice and The Word are ASPECTS of the Presence. Not the Presence himself. Spectre calls The Word his "older brother". Are you saying that The Presence is Spectre's brother? The Word was also defeated by an Earth Elemental named Tefe, surely The Presence isnt that weak, is he?

well I have been away from comics for 7 years so I'm kinda outta whack and trying to read up on everything I have missed in comics on the Internet. . In Dcuguide.com it says The Voice opens it's mouth and creates the Word, that is the reason why I said he is The Presence even tho I have read elsewhere that The Voice is a aspect of The Presence just like The Word like you have also said (even tho I never said The Word is The Presence).

I myself never really should have put The Presence down that far at 3 he SHOULD be at 1, I don't know what I was thinking lol, sorry my mistake..

Also about The Word, he destroyed the Parliament of Trees but then Tefe destroyed him, but then hasn't The Spectre talked about him as tho he was not dead??? and of course the Presence could win over Tefe, Tefe is nothing to the Presence.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
thats wierd, coming from a man that doesnt seem to have been born with the human trait of common sense and whose posts contain NO LOGIC WHATSOEVER, n just cause u rent convinced doesnt mean no1 else is.

I don't think kgkg is the one without common sense.