Originally posted by SuperherovandalExcept that Superman is stronger, faster, and can shoot Jonn's weakness from his eyes.
he has advanced shape shifting powers. Extreme telepathic powers beyond that of Xavier. He has around class 100 strength and can match Supes for like 5mins. Superspeed nearly that of Supes. Martian vision. Intangibility. Invisibility. 9 senses. Genius intellect. What else? Just the guy to take out Supes.
Originally posted by olympian
"Fenris while powerful, was able to most of what he did, because the league didn't want to kill him, just defeat him and get him back to normal"The league stated they werent holding back and still got served.
"He's no where near Superman's speed, strength and durability though"
Bullocks. How does someone not near his level, aids in moving the moon?
How he wins? Tp, and all the versability he possess.
Show me Jonn's feats of speed strength and durability equal to Supes', I bet you won'y be able to. Regardless of the fact he "helped" move the moon.
Originally posted by olympianRegardless... the point is--- He shoots Martian Manhunter's weakness from his eyes. He moves multiples of lightspeed while Jonn doesn't, and has feats of Strength Jonn will never touch. And has resisted telepathic assault by a guy that domianted MM and Aquaman at the same time. And this is all far more recent.
"Except that Superman is stronger, faster, and can shoot Jonn's weakness from his eyes"That sure helped him against the White Martians.
"Show me Jonn's feats of speed strength and durability equal to Supes', I bet you won'y be able to. Regardless of the fact he "helped" move the moon."
Why "helped" and not helped. Is there any doubt wathsoever that he did.
"Regardless... the point is--- He shoots Martian Manhunter's weakness from his eyes. He moves multiples of lightspeed while Jonn doesn't, and has feats of Strength Jonn will never touch."
And regardless that did helped him against the White Martians, correct?
Where they still continued to fight even after being blasted with heat vision. Like MM has.
MM going all out as Fernus pwned the entire squad. Superman all out doesnt beat Orion or Wonder Woman. Strenght feats? Moon, and duplicating one of WW who is on Supes class in that regard during if im not mistaken : Jla/Titans. Two panels after she did it.
"And has resisted telepathic assault by a guy that domianted MM and Aquaman at the same time. "
And usually gets mindcontrolled.
Originally posted by olympianFenrus was the emobidment of evil in Jonn's soul, and was casted out.Why "helped" and not helped. Is there any doubt wathsoever that he did.
"Regardless... the point is--- He shoots Martian Manhunter's weakness from his eyes. He moves multiples of lightspeed while Jonn doesn't, and has feats of Strength Jonn will never touch."
And regardless that did helped him against the White Martians, correct?
Where they still continued to fight even after being blasted with heat vision. Like MM has.
MM going all out as Fernus pwned the entire squad. Superman all out doesnt beat Orion or Wonder Woman. Strenght feats? Moon, and duplicating one of WW who is on Supes class in that regard during if im not mistaken : Jla/Titans. Two panels after she did it.
"And has resisted telepathic assault by a guy that domianted MM and Aquaman at the same time. "
And usually gets mindcontrolled.
Originally posted by olympian
"Show me Jonn's feats of speed strength and durability equal to Supes', I bet you won'y be able to. Regardless of the fact he "helped" move the moon."Why "helped" and not helped. Is there any doubt wathsoever that he did.
"Regardless... the point is--- He shoots Martian Manhunter's weakness from his eyes. He moves multiples of lightspeed while Jonn doesn't, and has feats of Strength Jonn will never touch."
And regardless that did helped him against the White Martians, correct?
Where they still continued to fight even after being blasted with heat vision. Like MM has.
MM going all out as Fernus pwned the entire squad. Superman all out doesnt beat Orion or Wonder Woman. Strenght feats? Moon, and duplicating one of WW who is on Supes class in that regard during if im not mistaken : Jla/Titans. Two panels after she did it.
"And has resisted telepathic assault by a guy that domianted MM and Aquaman at the same time. "
And usually gets mindcontrolled.
Orion, MM, WW, and Steel were barely able to hold an annoyed Supes in the King of the World storyline. This is with them all dogpiling him and tryng hard as hell to restrain him. Supes was mildly annoyed...he was even going all out.
"It's been proven people greater than Martian Manhunter cannot penetrate Superman's mind."
Guys under his level can, but he cant? Where.
"He had no weakness to fire, while Jonn does"
And in the same way as Superman`s weaknesshe doesnt go down straight away. Like the White Martians didnt.
"and can cut moons in half, pushed planets, etc. Martian Manhunter hasn't done anything like this "
Moving the moon isent anything like this? You are also missing the point. Im not saying he is stronger or even necessarily equal. Im saying "no near his level" its bull.
And Superman moved a planet alright. After being sundipped.
"Superman bloodlusted dealt with the league too, and without a bonus power-up, and faster than Fenrus did."
Odd i recall a Superman wanting to rule the world and the Jla wer still up and Orion didnt went down fighting him.
Fenrus on he other hand, not being a power up but instead a being unleashed owned the Jla that wasent holding back.
"And he still shoots fire from his eyes, and according to the DC webpage-- Martian Manhunter weakness to flame is caused by psychological and genetic factors. His body simply can't handle powerful flame"
Thenhow did the White Martian Proteus continue to fight Superman after getting blasted. Explained that one to me.
Jla year one has John surviving a fire and not going down. Oops.
"as they said at full level it's impossible to guage it's strength"
They say that to how many characters. I recall Superman saying MM was the most powerful being on Earth in the JLA title as well. On panel.
"Orion, MM, WW, and Steel were barely able to hold an annoyed Supes in the King of the World storyline. This is with them all dogpiling him and tryng hard as hell to restrain him. Supes was mildly annoyed...he was even going all out."
And didnt Orion fought him mano a mano? Or was that another All out Supes story he was in.
There is one thing I never got from the whole Burning storyline in which MM became Fernis. If WW is fully resistant to tp assaults and attempting to causes a backlash on the user did he use it one her or just tk when he was Fernis. If he did and it worked I smell PIS, CIS and just plain stupidity on the writers part. In fact I remember having a conversation with Draco one the fact that the guy who writes the JLA's stories admitted he didn't know much about WW.
In this though I can see MM winning although Superman is highly tp proof what's to stop MM from turning into a Kryptonian to better mind assault him.
Originally posted by olympian
"It's been proven people greater than Martian Manhunter cannot penetrate Superman's mind."Guys under his level can, but he cant? Where.
"He had no weakness to fire, while Jonn does"
And in the same way as Superman`s weaknesshe doesnt go down straight away. Like the White Martians didnt.
l"ightspeed, and can cut moons in half, pushed planets, etc. Martian Manhunter hasn't done anything like this "
Moving the moon isent anything like this? You are also missing the point. Im not saying he is stronger or even necessarily equal. Im saying "no nearhis level"its bull.
And Superman pushed a planet alright. After being sundipped.
"Superman bloodlusted dealt with the league too, and without a bonus power-up, and faster than Fenrus did."
Odd i recall a Superman wanting to rule the world and the Jla wer still up and Orion didnt went down fighting him.
Fenrus on he other hand, not being a power up but instead a being unleashed owned the Jla that wasent holding back.
"And he still shoots fire from his eyes, and according to the DC webpage-- Martian Manhunter weakness to flame is caused by psychological and genetic factors. His body simply can't handle powerful flame"
Thenhow did the White Martian Proteus continue to fight Superman after getting blasted. Explained that one to me.
Jla year one has John surviving a fire and not going down. Oops.
"as they said at full level it's impossible to guage it's strength"
They say that to how many characters. I recall Superman saying MM was the most powerful being on Earth in the JLA title as well. On panel.
"Orion, MM, WW, and Steel were barely able to hold an annoyed Supes in the King of the World storyline. This is with them all dogpiling him and tryng hard as hell to restrain him. Supes was mildly annoyed...he was even going all out."
And didnt Orion fought him mano a mano? Or was that another All out Supes story he was in.
Superman also is on panel calling Batman the most dangerous person on Earth. He also said Zod was the only person he's ever truly feared.. He also said the same about Doomsday.. He also said Thor was his best opponent ever, but he's said that to half of DCU, What's your point?
During the JSA, trial of Atom Smasher, Jonn got backed down by an OMAC shooting fire out of his arm at him, and didn't do shit the whole fight as a result. That's far newer than Year One. And do you think either of these... is as powerful as Superman's current heat vision?
You still have yet to show me Jonn flying multiples of lightspeed or doing any high feats like Superman at all in terms of speed/durabilty/strength. I will agree, he's ON PAR, but still not close to Superman in these respects, as he simply does NOT have the feats to prove it.
"Odd, that Superman dealt with the league during Sacrifice, and Martian Manhunter didn't put him down.
In JLA118, Despero mentally assaulted and dominated Aquaman and Martian Manhunter, alluding me to believe he's on a higher level. In the following issue, he could NOT do the same to Superman, and was getting mad about it"
And yet on previous fights Desespero has claim MM to be the hardest mind for him to control with BlueBettle coming as second. There are examples of both ways.
And Superman still gets mindcontrolled in a regular basis.
"Superman also is on panel calling Batman the most dangerous person on Earth. He also said Zod was the only person he's ever truly feared.. He also said the same about Doomsday.. He also said Thor was his best opponent ever, but he's said that to half of DCU, What's your point"
See how many character had the "most powerful" title, Superman included?
"During the JSA, trial of Atom Smasher, Jonn got backed down by an OMAC shooting fire out of his arm at him, and didn't do shit the whole fight as a result. That's far newer than Year One."
-Juntai he has survived fires before. You seem to have the idea that weakness kills him straight away.
Its a weakness like Superman has with Magic. It weaknes him but can or not put him down-
r e a d. There are again examples of both.
Its no more correct than saying magic gets Superman down all the time.
"I will agree, he's ON PAR, but still not close to Superman in these respects"
If hes on par then of course he is close. Wich is what this argument is for. They both have the means to take each other out.