Originally posted by Jinsoku TakaiJins, you're going to find that many of the threads in this forum drift greatly to off-topic conversations. Red was a good poster. When I first knew him, your Nemesis was already an amazing speaker, and I was amazed at how strongly the Topic was with him. We thought we could post with him just as much as Janus. We were wrong...
No Red, that shit is what's off topic. I was pointing out the fact that this thread has drifted.
Have you failed to realize that calling someone childish is childish? Your condemnation of Gideon applies to your own behavior. The appropriate response, so long as your intention is to focus exclusively upon the OP, would be to remain on topic and disregard the portions that you object to. If you find labeling the infraction absolutely necessary a PM should suffice.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERYeah, and you didn't get it. (lol)
Cause Gideon said hes not debating anymore.. And hes brought up the same points which iv already answered. For example hes saying again Dooku used FL on Bulq just like Mace used the Force on Bulq.
Big difference which iv already expalined a zillion times is the FL completely knocked him out. Mace's Force push didnt...Did you read what Gideon wrote?? Force lightning is far more deadlier than a force push! Mace does not use FL. It had nothing to do with Dooku being more powerful.
And Bulq also got a force push on Mace.. Mace was on the ground! He culdnt force push Dooku onto the ground in his dreams..Mace was not going all out on him to begin with like Dooku was. And what does that mean? Yoda got a force push on Sidious but not Dooku.
And i checked again, Mace got in a force push while Bulq was just rambling on.. and his force push didnt even leave him unconcious so not in Dooku's FL league which iv already explained but Gideon just doesnt listen (or doesnt want to understand the simple and obvious point).You're just not getting it, are you?
Also Dooku was tooling Bulq in the saber fight as well. Mace wasnt.Read again. Dooku did not care about killing him.
The name came from the game.. and was in reference to a particular character whose force powers were great and whose not holding back on using the force.Just about every character in the story had over the top force power. Not just Galen. So you are wong.
The story is cannon.. however if they showed the same story in the new cartoon, they would probably show something similar but dun with much difficulty, and perhaps with more tactics used.We are not going by ifs. It happened and it's canon.
If they showed TFU in a movie they probably would show something similar, but done with much more diffuculty.
Stop trying to choose what you want as canon!
Look Yoda in episode 1 of the new series culdnt take on as many droids with his lightsaber as mace did without in that mini.. So by that argument Mace has better TK feats than both Yoda and Sidious. So just think about that and use some logic.Watch that episode again. Yoda was enjoying himself. He did not seem to feel threatened what so ever. Do you remember Yoda catching an avalanche of huge free falling bolders in mid-air?
Also there were times in the old cartoons where Yoda did not use the force to take out armies, but instead used his saber skills.
Dooku actually never attempted to use the Force on them.. More proof that Dooku doesnt like risking his life.. Mace as we know is more than willing to give his life for the cause of the republic... So Obiwan took out many more driods than those pirates with the force alone... so is your argument that Obiwan is better with the Force than Dooku now?? Of course not.I don't recall Obi Wan being surrounded the same way Dooku was.
With both hands and full concentration..It took him about a second to do...
Whilst Dooku just raises his hand and causes the stone roof to cave in on anakin and obiwan.Ahh.. Who is lying now? Dooku used 2 hands not 1.
yeah i dnt even remeber the last time we saw dooku fight clones, forget droids.No, but he was humiliated by pirates.
Look, I am not trying to down play Dooku. He is very skilled and refined in TK, but he does not seem to have the raw power that Mace does.
Ashoka pulls a larger platform onto a whole load of droids to save anakin in the CW movie.Good for her.
Maybe cause he was just able to flick Obiwan away with his hand.. Anakin was too much for him, and gave him no oppurtunity to use his greater force powers.Why didn't he use it on Obi Wan to begin with. It would have been a lot easier to kill him that way.
Should have been easier.. Just smash the whole wall in.. It was only a few guns!!!Stop being dumb. Where would he force throw the guns to like he did the droids?
Not to mention Mace was in an open space on Genosia in ATOC.. but culdnt do any such thing... A feat that would have saved hunderds of Jedis!He was also surrounded by jedi. If he unleashed a massive wave like he did on Dantooine he could have injured near by jedi.
Why do you keep arguing about this? Mace did it on Dantooine rather you like it or not.
Also mace took out all the droids in front of him, whilst none of the ones behind him were firing.No he took out much more then just the ones in front of him.
Episode 4 of the new series.. GG and his droids ambushed Obiwan, and he took them all out including 3 destroyer droids just using the force! he had his lightsaber but didnt use it.. he just used the force.. I guess that makes Obiwan a better force user than Dooku right?? because Dooku got caught by pirates!No, Obi Wan took them out one at a time.
There was not even the slightest hint anywhere that he wasnt willing to hurt Bulq.The fact that Mace ended the fight with a simple force push, and what Gideon said.
You need to get over that.And you need to get over that you don't decide what is canon.
If he culd have rendered Bulq unconcious like Dooku did then he WOULD HAVE! Because he didnt want Bulq to escape. Case closed. Stop arguing this point..Mace does not use force lightning. Now if Dooku knocked him unconscience with a force push then you can talk.
Just cool it.
Dooku has without a doubt showed far superior skills against Bulq and Ventress than Mace has. And they are the best source of comparison as they are opponents that both of them have fought.Dooku did not fight Ventress on Vjun. Dooku tooled Ventress a lot worse than Yoda did, so Dooku must be more powerful. Ventress was not fighting Dooku, nor did she know he was gonna attack her like he did.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Did you read what Gideon wrote?? Force lightning is far more deadlier than a force push!.
Then Dooku has a more powerful force attack than mace. BTW Yoda's force attacks seemed to almost match sidious's FL.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Mace does not use FL. It had nothing to do with Dooku being more powerful.
If he has a more powerful attack then that makes him more powerful with physical force attacks! besides i never once actually argued dooku was "more powerful" than mace.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Mace was not going all out on him to begin with like Dooku was. And what does that mean? Yoda got a force push on Sidious but not Dooku..
Mace wasnt fighting anyone else simultaneously. Dooku was. And he was tooling them both. And Dooku was trying to turn them to the darkside hence not going for the kill. Bulq Force pushed Mace onto the Floor. He culdnt do that to Dooku with help from Tholme!
Yoda was out to kill Sidious. He was only out to capture Dooku. Although killing Dooku might have been an option if thats what it came down to.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Just about every character in the story had over the top force power. Not just Galen. So you are wong...
Really?? Like who? I only remember Darth Vader whose Force Powers are also supposed to be ridiculously powerful.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Stop trying to choose what you want as canon!...
Ok fine. I give in. Lets take all the exagerrated feats of the clone wars mini cartoon as canon.
In which case you have to accept this also. Chapter 1 beginning of episode.. Padawan Anakin is surrounded by at least 20 battledroids. With one hand and one force push/wave, he puts them all to the ground. Now of course that makes Anakin more powerful in the Force than Dooku right?? Because crap old Dooku surrendered when he was surrounded by a few pirates right??
In volume 2 Jedi knight Anakin used the Force to chuck a Leg of one of those HUGE 4 legged Droids, at another one completely crushing it! Then he frees several other jedis from the bubbles they were trapped in with a hand jesture.
Now if padawan Anakin and Jedi knight Anakin can do that, then what Do you think Count Dooku would be capable of doing with the Force in that mini toon??? As we KNOW him to be far far better than CW Anakin or ObiWan in the Force.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I don't recall Obi Wan being surrounded the same way Dooku was..
Obiwan was surrounded by much more firepower. The only difference was he had his lightsaber, but didnt use it. So the lightsaber didnt actually make a difference. But it obviously gives a jedi more confidence to take on impossible odds. The fact is Dooku just didnt have the confidence without his lightsaber to risk his life like that. So he didnt even try. That says a lot about his pyschology, not about his abilities.
It also perhaps says being surrounded by humans with guns is more deadly than being surrounded by driods. Droids may take too long to think of their next move, waiting for orders. We've seen this many times.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It took him about a second to do... Ahh.. Who is lying now? Dooku used 2 hands not 1.
Ok sorry. My mistake. I thought it was one hand. Doesnt matter cause hes done it easily against Tholme One handed.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Look, I am not trying to down play Dooku. He is very skilled and refined in TK, but he does not seem to have the raw power that Mace does..
Well he does if you accept hes far far more poweful in the Force than CW Anakin or Obiwan, see what theyve done, then its obvious and logical to accept that Dooku would be capable of doing far far more if he went all out with his TK. So we are talking Mace's league on Dantooine.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Why didn't he use it on Obi Wan to begin with. It would have been a lot easier to kill him that way...
How long was it before his first Force Push on Obiwan?? that sent him flying back onto the floor, whilst fending off Anakin??!! And then as soon as Obiwan came back into the fight he disposed of him immediately using the Force.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He was also surrounded by jedi. If he unleashed a massive wave like he did on Dantooine he could have injured near by jedi....
Very lame excuse. He could have just taken the lead and jumped in front of the other jedi when the jedi were surronded and the driods about to finish them all. They were killing more jedis each second. Its quite obvious in the movies Mace wasnt capable of any such feat. Its inconsistent, because the cw mini was exagerrated. When you accept this you will see that its illogical to compare feats from this exagerrated show to the rest of the less exaggerated SW Universe.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The fact that Mace ended the fight with a simple force push, and what Gideon said. And you need to get over that you don't decide what is canon. Mace does not use force lightning. Now if Dooku knocked him unconscience with a force push then you can talk
He got in a cheap Force push while Bulq was rambling away so he could escape this fight to go save the other jedis. He says it himself. Anakin got a force push on Dooku while Dooku was rambling away. If there was a wall right behind Dooku that might have been deadly.
And Theres no way Mace wanted Bulq to escape. So Now your the one deciding whats canon and whats not.
Again if Dooku's FL is more powerful than Mace's Force push, then that means Dooku simply has more powerful force attacks at his disposal. Get over that. And Dooku did knock Obiwan unconcious with a masterful force move. When we see mace do that to someone as powerful as Obiwan then you can talk. Hes fought Ventress and didnt do anything of the sort to her whom i doubt many would argue is more powerful than ROTS Obiwan.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Dooku did not fight Ventress on Vjun.
No he just lifted his finger and she was on the floor in extreme pain. Gideon says thats because vjun increases the darkside but thats a poor excuse, as it would obviously increase ventress's powers too. he also said she wuldnt dare fight back against him. i think you said that as well. Well that completely goes against ventress's character. not to mention dooku did that to her after she said aggressively to him "Dont patronise me!"
Anyway the first time Ventress and Dooku met and she attacked Dooku, he didnt even ignite his lightsaber and he knocked her out in 2 seconds flat with FL. Later he tested her in lightsaber combat.. He was completely tooling her.. but playing around with her. Once he wanted the fight to end, he used the force to take away her waepons, and defeat her with the force easily.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Dooku tooled Ventress a lot worse than Yoda did, so Dooku must be more powerful. Ventress was not fighting Dooku, nor did she know he was gonna attack her like he did.
Worse than Yoda did??!! LOL!! How could ANYONE tool Ventress worse than Yoda did! He completely paralyzed her with ease. And took her weapons off her.. Then even chose to give her her weapons back! As in shes no threat whatsoever with or without her weapons.. Nobody could ever tool anyone as badly as Yoda tooled Ventress!
And I think anyone saying to a Sith Lord "Dnt patronize me" can expect an aggressive response, and clearly has guts to challenge him.
Ignore the terrifying palsied german voice actor.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERDarth Power, What is wrong with you? If you are gonna continue acting dumb then I am going to drop this debate.
Then Dooku has a more powerful force attack than mace. BTW Yoda's force attacks seemed to almost match sidious's FL.If he has a more powerful attack then that makes him more powerful with physical force attacks! besides i never once actually argued dooku was "more powerful" than mace.
Mace wasnt fighting anyone else simultaneously. Dooku was. And he was tooling them both. And Dooku was trying to turn them to the darkside hence not going for the kill. Bulq Force pushed Mace onto the Floor. He culdnt do that to Dooku with help from Tholme!
Yoda was out to kill Sidious. He was only out to capture Dooku. Although killing Dooku might have been an option if thats what it came down to.Really?? Like who? I only remember Darth Vader whose Force Powers are also supposed to be ridiculously powerful.
Ok fine. I give in. Lets take all the exagerrated feats of the clone wars mini cartoon as canon.
In which case you have to accept this also. Chapter 1 beginning of episode.. Padawan Anakin is surrounded by at least 20 battledroids. With one hand and one force push/wave, he puts them all to the ground. Now of course that makes Anakin more powerful in the Force than Dooku right?? Because crap old Dooku surrendered when he was surrounded by a few pirates right??
In volume 2 Jedi knight Anakin used the Force to chuck a Leg of one of those HUGE 4 legged Droids, at another one completely crushing it! Then he frees several other jedis from the bubbles they were trapped in with a hand jesture.
Now if padawan Anakin and Jedi knight Anakin can do that, then what Do you think Count Dooku would be capable of doing with the Force in that mini toon??? As we KNOW him to be far far better than CW Anakin or ObiWan in the Force.Obiwan was surrounded by much more firepower. The only difference was he had his lightsaber, but didnt use it. So the lightsaber didnt actually make a difference. But it obviously gives a jedi more confidence to take on impossible odds. The fact is Dooku just didnt have the confidence without his lightsaber to risk his life like that. So he didnt even try. That says a lot about his pyschology, not about his abilities.
It also perhaps says being surrounded by humans with guns is more deadly than being surrounded by driods. Droids may take too long to think of their next move, waiting for orders. We've seen this many times.
Ok sorry. My mistake. I thought it was one hand. Doesnt matter cause hes done it easily against Tholme One handed.
Well he does if you accept hes far far more poweful in the Force than CW Anakin or Obiwan, see what theyve done, then its obvious and logical to accept that Dooku would be capable of doing far far more if he went all out with his TK. So we are talking Mace's league on Dantooine.
How long was it before his first Force Push on Obiwan?? that sent him flying back onto the floor, whilst fending off Anakin??!! And then as soon as Obiwan came back into the fight he disposed of him immediately using the Force.
Very lame excuse. He could have just taken the lead and jumped in front of the other jedi when the jedi were surronded and the driods about to finish them all. They were killing more jedis each second. Its quite obvious in the movies Mace wasnt capable of any such feat. Its inconsistent, because the cw mini was exagerrated. When you accept this you will see that its illogical to compare feats from this exagerrated show to the rest of the less exaggerated SW Universe.
He got in a cheap Force push while Bulq was rambling away so he could escape this fight to go save the other jedis. He says it himself. Anakin got a force push on Dooku while Dooku was rambling away. If there was a wall right behind Dooku that might have been deadly.
And Theres no way Mace wanted Bulq to escape. So Now your the one deciding whats canon and whats not.Again if Dooku's FL is more powerful than Mace's Force push, then that means Dooku simply has more powerful force attacks at his disposal. Get over that. And Dooku did knock Obiwan unconcious with a masterful force move. When we see mace do that to someone as powerful as Obiwan then you can talk. Hes fought Ventress and didnt do anything of the sort to her whom i doubt many would argue is more powerful than ROTS Obiwan.
No he just lifted his finger and she was on the floor in extreme pain. Gideon says thats because vjun increases the darkside but thats a poor excuse, as it would obviously increase ventress's powers too. he also said she wuldnt dare fight back against him. i think you said that as well. Well that completely goes against ventress's character. not to mention dooku did that to her after she said aggressively to him "Dont patronise me!"
Anyway the first time Ventress and Dooku met and she attacked Dooku, he didnt even ignite his lightsaber and he knocked her out in 2 seconds flat with FL. Later he tested her in lightsaber combat.. He was completely tooling her.. but playing around with her. Once he wanted the fight to end, he used the force to take away her waepons, and defeat her with the force easily.Worse than Yoda did??!! LOL!! How could ANYONE tool Ventress worse than Yoda did! He completely paralyzed her with ease. And took her weapons off her.. Then even chose to give her her weapons back! As in shes no threat whatsoever with or without her weapons.. Nobody could ever tool anyone as badly as Yoda tooled Ventress!
And I think anyone saying to a Sith Lord "Dnt patronize me" can expect an aggressive response, and clearly has guts to challenge him.
Of course Dooku has more deadlier techniques. He is a dark side practitioner. A lightning attack from Dooku would also hurt someone a lot worse than a force Push from Yoda. Does that mean he is more powerful because he has more dangerous techniques? No!
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Darth Power, What is wrong with you? If you are gonna continue acting dumb then I am going to drop this debate.
????????
Yes because coming out with completely valid points and using them to argue against you guys is the definiton of dumb here.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Of course Dooku has more deadlier techniques. He is a dark side practitioner. A lightning attack from Dooku would also hurt someone a lot worse than a force Push from Yoda. Does that mean he is more powerful because he has more dangerous techniques? No!
No way... Any force attack from Yoda would be much more deadly than anything Dooku can unleash.. You really think Dooku could send Sidious flying back onto the floor?? FL or not Dooku culdnt do that to Sidious in his wildest dreams.
Originally posted by truejedi
Why is this thread Dooku vs. Mace anyway? If i might be so bold as to ask?
Yes your right weve gone completley off topic here.. I think its started by making the case about how Powerful Anakin is because of how badly he overpowered Count Dooku. Not quite sure where Mace was brought into this from LOL
Right i just checked... Its started with Advent claiming Anakin may possibly have been the best saber duellist in the PT, and then Dr. Mc beefington saying no because Lucas says you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious, so they are the top 3.
Then Advent said something like if they are the top 3 then that would exclude Dooku whose definetely on Mace's level.
Thats how Mace got introduced into this.. and i think i joined in when Gideon was claiming that Dooku ran away from Mace which is supposed to be some kind of proof that Mace is better or more powerful. I just think thats such a poor argument considering that their actual fight was very even but with many more Jedi on their way to capture Dooku, he culdnt exactly risk an "even" fight.
And then at some point i became a dumb Dooku sympathist whose not worth debating, and oh wait... cant be taken seriously due to the poor grammar. Yeah again Slash KMC that was a great point you brought up there.
What's even worse than your grammar, is your lack of comprehension. This is what I said:
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
People here take you more serious when you at least try to adapt proper grammar and spelling.
And this is what you said:
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
cant be taken seriously due to the poor grammar. Yeah again Slash that was a great point you brought up there.
Now before you even think about trying to reply to me, figure out the difference between what I said and what you said.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
????????
Yes because coming out with completely valid points and using them to argue against you guys is the definiton of dumb here.No way... Any force attack from Yoda would be much more deadly than anything Dooku can unleash.. You really think Dooku could send Sidious flying back onto the floor?? FL or not Dooku culdnt do that to Sidious in his wildest dreams.
Take Sidious vs Yoda for example. When Sidious struck Yoda with FL, it knocked Yoda OUT. It took Yoda almost a minute to recover from the attack. When Yoda used a FP on Sidious, all it did was send Sidious flying across the room over a chair. It took Sidious about 3 seconds to recover, and even tried to make his exit. Like Gideon said, it's a no brainer force lightning>force push. Force lightning is a deadlier attack.
I do not mean to be rude and nasty. I do not believe you are a dumb person, but you are acting that way. I honestly think you know you are wrong by the way you are arguing. You are sounding desperate and arguing with canon. You expect me to explain to you why Mace did something in one story and not the other. I can ask the same question about Vader: Why didn't he use his awesome TK skills displayed in TFU on the vengeful bounty hunter (Tark) during their fight? Should we disregard Vader's feats in the force unleashed?
I try not to make too big of a deal on grammar and spelling, because I'm not the best at it myself. As long as you try and I can understand what you are saying. Your arguements are getting annoying, however. Gideon has crushed all your points "in one swift stroke". And instead of getting to Gideon's points, you accuse him of rambling on, then you turn around and complain when someone makes those kinda remarks about you. I agree with Lord Lucien. I think you do not like the fact that your ego has been attacked.
As of now, I'm ending the debate with you...