Personally I think that even if Kenobi is up to their level of skill, he's pretty out of his depth when it comes to power and augmentation with the top tiers being discussed. Caedus, Kun, Plagueis and Krayt would kick his ass in a duel even if it isn't through merit of their technical skills.
How do people feel about RotS Kenobi vs Peak Vader? Marek? Maybe even TFU Shaak Ti? Ahsoka?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And because Kenobi doing better than Windu did against Grievous (and better than it's implied Yoda would), contending equally with Anakin in a marathon engagement, baffling Dooku is his saber mastery, and repeatedly stalemating Maul, doesn't absolutely put him on level with the greatest duelists of the other seven forms. Instead Soresu is just an underperforming style. Right?
Because Soresu and Shii-Cho are the perfect counters to Grievous? Or are we going to start arguing that Kit Fisto is also Windu/Yoda level because he schooled Grievous with literal ease? Contending with a reckless, fatigued and mentally conflicted Anakin, yes. I also question how being surprised that someone's learned another form is proof that they're some God with a blade, let alone why you're using quotes that have been massively contradicted in other canon sources.
This has nothing to do with Soresu as a style, merely that being the best Soresu wielder does not put one on par with the best Juyo wielder, or the best Makashi duelist. That's just not how it works 😬
Frankly I'm a little non-plussed as to why an appreciation of Kenobi's abilities is inciting such backlash. 😬
She's been mentioned in the same sentence as Dooku, and that's it, that doesn't at all compare to Kenobi's praise and accomplishments.
Not necessarily, if we're just talking accolades (which is what you brought up) they're not really that different.
Well that's what I'm assessing here, and I think its what's relevant to this debate in regards to Surik interpreting and matching that skill, if we are going to include Force augmentative ability and what not Revan should be above a lot of people you listed.
Forgive me for saying this, but I don't give a shit what you're assessing? We're discussing the greatest duelists in the mythos, that cannot happen without including every physical and tactical attribute those individuals possess. Solid moving of the goalposts here Beni.
I kind help but find this ironic considering your attempt to lowball Kenobi as the best Soresu master in the order the basis that we don't know much about its practitioners.
We know a lot about its practitioners, actually. The greatest Duelists of the Jedi are, in no particular order: Ki Adi-Mundi, Shaak Ti, Yoda, Windu, Anakin, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, Obi Wan Kenobi, Eeth Koth, Saesee Tiin, Plo Koon and more.
Literally none of them wielded Soresu as their primary form. Kenobi being the best practitioner does not solidify him in duelist rankings in the way you suggested, because we know that no other high class duelist is a Soresu practitioner. If he was called the greatest practitioner of Ataru, at least that places him above people like Qui Gon, Shaak Ti and Yoda, who wield it as their primary forms.
That's why being the best Soresu practitioner isn't as good of a quote as saying someone's the best Juyo practitioner. One puts you above Mace Windu, the other puts you above Coleman Trebor 😕
To be fair Sel, Coleman wasn't really lacking bladework given he waded through battalions of droids and Geo warriors, that also said it's also weird how he was killed by Jango seeing as he had no issue deflecting the first 2 bolts sent at him and the afore mentioned feat. His death doesn't really make sense tbh.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I didn't, I just made note of it. Like how people say Luke is the most powerful force user when there's a thread about him.It wasn't an issue until Sel's tantrum.
Nah. This is just a pretty phenomenal abuse of moving the goalposts 🙂
I asked you why you thought he was top 7. You said he's a better duelist than those I mentioned. So either you think augmentation is entirely irrelevant to someone's skill as a duelist, or you were attempting to rank individuals while ignoring their strength/speed/durability/stamina etc, which is literally impossible and nothing more than unfounded opinion 🙂