Siding with the Sith

Originally posted by palpy_666
I guess you can call me an incredibly evil mofo. lol.

But, this argument raises a good point. You state that Palpy and Vader are out to kill those who disagree with their viewpoint... Hmm.. Well, doesn't the Republic want the same thing? Think about it. The Seperatist's have their own perspective on things, but it is not what the Republic wants, and so the Republic goes after them.

That's just ignoring the films.

The Republic wouldn't have done a damn thing to the Seperatists- had the Seperatists not been planning invasion! The Confederacy was built to aggressviely destroy the Republic- that was the point!

Originally posted by Ushgarak
This is ridiculous. Star Wars is a simple morality tale of good and evil. The Jedi are good and the Sith evil. Any attempt to complicate that has missed the point of Star Wars entirely.

Just wait then till you hear Palpatine comment on this very topic when he is speaking with Anakin in the Opera house.

"Good" and "Evil" do not exist. Light and Dark are more appropriate terms. Star Wars is not about morality. It is about Light vs. Dark. Not everyone agrees with the Jedi or what people call "the good guys".

Originally posted by Vanquish
The Jedi's have NO natural corruption at all on their side. The only Jedi's that have ever commited evil acts are fallen jedi, or dark Jedi. They fall from the Jedi order, and are then capable of comitting the evils that a pure jedi could not. Dooku is an example. While he was a Jedi, i'm sure his heart was pure. Once his views strayed however, he became a dark Jedi because he now does not share the views of the pure Jedi's.

I'm not saying that former Jedi's aren't capable of evil things. In fact, quite the contrary. Many Jedi's have fallen from the order to become evil, and commit terrible acts of violence. However, for you to actually imply the Jedi have ever commited these acts, or are even capable of them is rediculous. They simply are not.

Jedi's are purely good, with no room for anything but. Siths are evil, with no good thoughts or compasion in them.

Ahh....and Idealist.

Lose the rose colored glasses for sec...

Perhaps corruption isn't the right way of putting it. Too much evil leads to corruption...thinking you are extremely "righteous" leads to pride, arrogance, vainity...wait then it becomes evil...which is my point.

Bull. That's just Palpatine seducing.

GL has made this very clear. Sith evil. Jedi good.

Simple as that. This entire topic is futile- it is conceptually against what Star Wars stands for.

Originally posted by tlbauerle
Ahh....and Idealist.

Lose the rose colored glasses for sec...

Perhaps corruption isn't the right way of putting it. Too much evil leads to corruption...thinking you are extremely "righteous" leads to pride, arrogance, vainity...wait then it becomes evil...which is my point.

The Jedi ARE righteous- and rightly so. That's the point of being the champions of the Light Side. They know what is right and wrong.

It's not like real life- this is, as I remind people, a black and white morality tale.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's just ignoring the films.

The Republic wouldn't have done a damn thing to the Seperatists- had the Seperatists not been planning invasion! The Confederacy was built to aggressviely destroy the Republic- that was the point!

I'm pretty sure there is more to it than that...I agree...but I'd be curious about the disgruntlement with the Republic and what caused it in the first place...

Ushgarak is right, GL said that in his time movies were all about anti-heroes so GL created Star Wars. Jedi are heroes, Sith are villains.

Yes, the Republic is old and corrupt and crumbling and Dooku took advantage of that.

But the Jedi are not the Republic, for one thihg, and the point is still that the Confederacy were the aggressors, is another.

This is not a contrast of political views; it is the attempt of the forces of evil in the Galaxy to destroy the Forces of good.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
The Jedi ARE righteous- and rightly so. That's the point of being the champions of the Light Side. They know what is right and wrong.

It's not like real life- this is, as I remind people, a black and white morality tale.

But too a fault, no?

"Count Dooku was once a Jedi...he couldn't assasinate anyone...it's not in his character"...Mace's statement implies arrogance and pride...the weakness of the righteous...

Jedi's are Purely good, and Siths are purely evil. It is their very nature, defined by the star wars writing. There is no point in disputing this, because to dispute it, is disputing GL. I think you are all forgetting that star wars ISN'T real. If it was real, there would be room to debate whether it should be this way, or that way. However, since it is fictional, we have no choice but to accept the way it is clearly portrayed by the author, and that is clear. Jedi = good, Sith = evil. That is the way it was intended, so there really can't be any intelligent debating either way.

Originally posted by tlbauerle
But too a fault, no?

"Count Dooku was once a Jedi...he couldn't assasinate anyone...it's not in his character"...Mace's statement implies arrogance and pride...the weakness of the righteous...

No, that statement reflected one thing only- no-on suspected he turned to the Dark Side.

GL was trying to point out that this was an unbelievable circumstance.

Of course, in the EU it happens all the time, but GL had it in mind that it was very rare.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
The Jedi ARE righteous- and rightly so. That's the point of being the champions of the Light Side. They know what is right and wrong.

It's not like real life- this is, as I remind people, a black and white morality tale.

I don't think GL presents us with a plain, black and white, right and wrong story here. No, I think he presents us with BOTH sides of the story and allows the viewer to make up their own mind.

In Episode III, I believe GL will have created subtle nudges that actually cause the viewer to have sympathy for the Sith's perspective. I think some people will put themselves in Anakin's shoes and actually walk out of the theater questioning what so many have considered "the right way" in the Star Wars universe.

No, that's not what he is doing at all- he is showing how easy it is to stray from the pat and BECOME evil, he's not watning people to think that might have been the right thing to do.

Sorry, but he has been very clear on this! Star Wars is the story of a good man who tuens bad- but is redeemed by his son.

It's not the story of a man who comes to a certain point of view and is then later persuaded to re-asses his views. It is more fundamental than that.

Good and evil, and why people become either.

There is nothing good, laudable and sympathetic about the Sith. They are the representation of pure evil.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, that statement reflected one thing only- no-on suspected he turned to the Dark Side.

GL was trying to point out that this was an unbelievable circumstance.

Of course, in the EU it happens all the time, but GL had it in mind that it was very rare.

I just disagree.

I can't think its that simple...and if it is...the GL is much less of a storyteller than I ever imagined.

GL is a very simple storyteller. Sorry, but he was only ever making a basic point- for, I will remind people, children.

It's all about clearly defined good and evil. It's been said so many times, in interviews, commentaries, documentaries...

I think you are mistaking the Jedi, for the Republic here. The Jedi are only a small part of the whole. Drawing negatives towards the Jedi, for the short comings of the republic isn't fair. It isn't in their nature to mentally manipulate people, so their job is very difficult. The Sith job is easy. Manipulate or Kill anything that opposes you. The Jedi have to live within the constraints of an idealistically perfect person.

I agree with anyone who says the republic has flaws, and corruption. However, I cannot agree with even the notion that a Jedi is in any way not purely good.

Well I think you can read more into it.

AND its more fun if you do.

Y'know even YODA says arrogance is a problem, "Even with the older, more experienced Jedi"

so NO, it's not that simple.

If you are reading moral grey areas into it you have made a mistake. As already mentioned, GL was specifically writing against such a concept.

He used the allegory of Westerns- White hats and Black hats. You knew who was good and who was bad. No confusion.

I am sorry if this disappoints anyone! But it is what Star Wars is. There is plenty of mixed motive sci-fi out there- but not this one.

Originally posted by tlbauerle
Y'know even YODA says arrogance is a problem, "Even with the older, more experienced Jedi"

so NO, it's not that simple.

Yes, like I said, the Jedi have made mistakes. What on Earth does that have to do with the central argument?

Sorry- still VERY simple.