Siding with the Sith

God, some of you people are truly idiots. The Sith are evil, the Jedi are good. That some Jedi fall from grace is simply demonstrative of the fact that it is harder to exist in a state of good, as evil brings with it seductive power. It appears that some here would be all too ready to give into this temptation.

I will agree that the Jedi Order is flawed. They were wrong to place restrictions on love. However, this is rectified by

Spoiler:
Qui-Gon Jinn, who comes back and shows the failings of the Order to Yoda, who brings what he learns to his teachings of Luke.

When the hell did selfishness become a virtue? When the hell did anarchism become acceptable? Next time you're talking down the street and someone beats the hell out of you and takes your money, don't you dare call the police! That's just them using anger and rage to fulfill their own end goal! It's "good", by your idiotic definitions.

Originally posted by mtryder
God, some of you people are truly idiots. The Sith are evil, the Jedi are good. That some Jedi fall from grace is simply demonstrative of the fact that it is harder to exist in a state of good, as evil brings with it seductive power. It appears that some here would be all too ready to give into this temptation.

I will agree that the Jedi Order is flawed. They were wrong to place restrictions on love. However, this is rectified by

Spoiler:
Qui-Gon Jinn, who comes back and shows the failings of the Order to Yoda, who brings what he learns to his teachings of Luke.

. So yeah, the Jedi got things slightly wrong, but they were still altruistic while the Sith were entirely self-serving and... well, evil.

When the hell did selfishness become a virtue? When the hell did anarchism become acceptable? Next time you're talking down the street and someone beats the hell out of you and takes your money, don't you dare call the police! That's just them using anger and rage to fulfill their own end goal! It's "good", by your idiotic definitions.

😆
i love your last comment there, very funny

I just don't understand how someone can ignore what the films say about the weaknesses the righteous have. It seems pretty obvious to me...

...and of course this isn't in the OT as it is personified by the Jedi Council.

Weakness does not equal evil. Not a single person here has denied that the Jedi order is flawed, oftentimes arrogant, and has misinterpreted some key things. They are still, however, good, whereas the Sith, even if they got a few select things right, are still evil. It's not that hard to understand, people.

Originally posted by mtryder
Weakness does not equal evil. Not a single person here has denied that the Jedi order is flawed, oftentimes arrogant, and has misinterpreted some key things. They are still, however, good, whereas the Sith, even if they got a few select things right, are still evil. It's not that hard to understand, people.

It is hard to understand when people do not think in terms of "good" and "evil". As said previously in this thread, one man's good is another man's evil and visa versa. To his supporters, Osama Bin Laden is good and America is bad. To Americans, Osama is bad and they are good. As it says in the opening crawl of Episode III "There are heroes on both sides."

So to evil people, Palpatine seems good? I hope for your sake that it didn't take you very long to figure that out.
Objectively speaking, however, the Jedi are good and the Sith are evil. That's the story that George Lucas told, and to say otherwise is null and void on that alone. Expanding beyond that, however, there are still a number of reasons already discussed here which prove that the Sith are the evil, self-serving, and destructive of the two sides. To ignore that is to be contrarian for attention-grabbing's sake.

Originally posted by mtryder
So to evil people, Palpatine seems good? I hope for your sake that it didn't take you very long to figure that out.
Objectively speaking, however, the Jedi are good and the Sith are evil. That's the story that George Lucas told, and to say otherwise is null and void on that alone. Expanding beyond that, however, there are still a number of reasons already discussed here which prove that the Sith are the evil, self-serving, and destructive of the two sides. To ignore that is to be contrarian for attention-grabbing's sake.

I'm not ignoring your supposed "facts" and what George Lucas wanted. And I certainly don't want your attention. I am simply stating that the Sith rule and are awesome in every way, shape, and form. Not everyone likes the Jedi-- I'm one of them. In fact, I often times hate them (not the Jedi Order in particular, but the hypocritical side of the Jedi). I honestly think that GL would think it's fine for someone to favor and to side with the Sith and their objectives-- hell, I'm sure he's a.o.k with this because it brings in more people. Goody too-shoes (sp?) make me and others sick. I just don't see why GL would think it's wrong for people to admire and favor his villains.

palpy you got some funny sigs man 😆

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
palpy you got some funny sigs man 😆

Thanks! 😄

It has nothing to do with being a goody two-shoes. In a lot of circumstances, the "evil" is better, simply because of misperceptions on the parts of those who do the labelling. This, however, is NOT one of those cases.
The Sith Order is predicated on doing whatever is necessary to achieve one's own ends. There is no honor, only what is good for self. There is only destruction. There is no good in this. To say otherwise is just stupid. To justify it as "social darwinism" is not only a misinterpretation of what social darwinism actually is, but also ignoring of the fact that such justifications have rarely held any commercial or political weight in the past.
Look, I'll be the first to admit that the Jedi Order is flawed. I don't even particularly like it. I'm not a blind follower, and agree that the Order's stubborn insistence on following a Stoic philosophy is ultimately what doomed it. Qui-Gon alone understood this, and rejected stoicism in favor of romanticism. His Republic was a fusion of the ideals of Plato and Whitman, and had that been the prevalent line of thought of the Jedi Order, the Council would have found itself invulnerable to the Sith.

The Sith, on the other hand, are basically the Church of Satan, with a bit of an anarchistic bent thrown in to spice things up and provide some more dramatic contrast. Don't be deceived by the name, though- the church of satan is basically just a bunch of naturalists- advocates of the same line of darwinist thought that you've spouting on this thread. I understand fully where you're coming from, but that doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.

So don't try to tell me that I don't understand the issue. I most definitely do, and can see where you might be coming from, to the point that I'd agree with you in those situations where it has even a remote degree of applicability to the issue at hand (the issue being that "good" and "evil" are not always as easily discernable as those who proudly wear the labels would have you believe).
The major strength of the Sith way is, indeed, its seductiveness. It looks as though you have succumbed to it... are you ready to accept the consequences? After all, you cannot say that such a way is better without being willing to withstand the negative consequences of it. In the case of the sith, the negative consequences are anarchy. Would you prefer anarchy? Is that right? Of course it isn't.

The Jedi may be flawed, but their intentions were in the right place. Throw in some revelations in Episode III, and you have the makings of a very salvageable order. The Jedi are interested in preserving the integrity of the government- of bringing and keeping the peace. Can you honestly say that warmongering by the select, powerful few is better than this? If you can, then you're either dim-witted, or supremely confident in your survival skills.

You cannot easily equate the Sith with Anarchism. The Sith wish to rule, not spread chaos. Through ruling comes order. Anarachism is the opposite to that.

There are some similarities between the Sith Order and Satanism, but the Sith are not Satanists, of course (and anyone who does not have a clear understanding of satanism should really look into it b4 commenting on it-- I've studied it for several articles and essays I've written).

And by the way, I am supremely confident in my own skills. 😎

Yeah...Anarchy and Oppressive Dictatorships are slightly different.

Church of Satan does not equal the satanist archetype that you're thinking of. As I said before, if you actually read it, the Church of Satan is a group that are basically naturalists, not a bunch of squirrel-sacrificing, fire-dancing, pentagram-drawing devil worshippers. They believe in reveling in emotion an instinct, dwelling on the "animal" part of "the intellectual animal". They do not believe in altruism, only in the natural order. The strong survive. The Sith are the same way.
For someone who professes to have a lot of knowledge on the subject, I'm surprised that you're not knowledgeable enough to make the distinction.

And the Sith, as I said, impose order through the threat of anarchy. Nothing is sacred to them. They blow up planets on a whim, with complete disregard for consequences, and kill whoever opposes them, even if that person comes from within their own ranks, and even if they have no proof that this person/planet has opposed them. This is anarchistic.

So, next time you're going to refute my statements, be sure to refute something that I actually said.

This thread has be come really, really gay

Originally posted by mtryder

And the Sith, as I said, impose order through the threat of anarchy. Nothing is sacred to them. They blow up planets on a whim, with complete disregard for consequences, and kill whoever opposes them, even if that person comes from within their own ranks, and even if they have no proof that this person/planet has opposed them. This is anarchistic.

You listen to me. First of all, I have been in close contact with members of the COS (you should know what that is if you are knowledgeable enough) and I've read the SB many times (again, you should know what that is). I know exactly what Satanism is about. I know that they don't believe in god nor the devil and that they are humanist's with a touch of magickal influence.

Secondly, I quoted something you wrote that makes no sense. You probably have no clue what Anarchism is. Anarchy has NOTHING to do with spreading chaos and mass killing. Look up the definition. It is simply an anti-political theory/concept and is not related in any way, shape, and form to terrorism.

AND, because we are WAY off topic now, I request the mods shut this thread down-- it has become very useless.

Originally posted by mtryder
God, some of you people are truly idiots. The Sith are evil, the Jedi are good. That some Jedi fall from grace is simply demonstrative of the fact that it is harder to exist in a state of good, as evil brings with it seductive power. It appears that some here would be all too ready to give into this temptation.

I will agree that the Jedi Order is flawed. They were wrong to place restrictions on love. However, this is rectified by

Spoiler:
Qui-Gon Jinn, who comes back and shows the failings of the Order to Yoda, who brings what he learns to his teachings of Luke.

. So yeah, the Jedi got things slightly wrong, but they were still altruistic while the Sith were entirely self-serving and... well, evil.

When the hell did selfishness become a virtue? When the hell did anarchism become acceptable? Next time you're talking down the street and someone beats the hell out of you and takes your money, don't you dare call the police! That's just them using anger and rage to fulfill their own end goal! It's "good", by your idiotic definitions.