Siding with the Sith

I know it's rarely the way people are, and in the Star wars world, most of the people aren't that way either. However, Jedi's and Siths are that way. Everyone else in the entire Star wars universe is more complex then black and white. Han Solo is more complex then simply White, as we know he has both at certain times. The senate, i'm sure has many good people, and many evil people on it. Corruption is abound on the senate also. It is not a black and white issue.

But when it comes to the religion of Jedi and Sith, it is that simple i'm sorry to say. It was specifically written that way. Jedi's are the embodyment of pure goodness. If you are not that way, then you are NOT a jedi. Anyone in the entire star wars universe who isn't purely good, isn't a Jedi. Jedi's must be by definition good. If there was a star wars dictionary, and you were to look up the word Jedi, it would say good. If you were to look up the word Sith, it would say evil. That is the inescapable truth about the story. Jedi=good, Sith=evil

That in no way means that you can't cheer for the Sith, or like the Sith and think they are cool. I know lots of people who like the Sith more then the Jedi. They are stronger it seems, they are dark and mysterious, they go around force choking and force lightning people which rules. Sith own, no doubt.

However, the thread was created by someone who is trying to skew the whole star wars concept simply because he thinks Siths are cooler. There is nothing wrong with thinking Siths are cool and hoping they win. However, changing the very basis of the story line that GL wrote, and actually implying that Jedi are anything but Pure good is where the line must be drawn.

They are purely good, but that doesn't mean you have to be on their side now does it?

It aint easy being a Sith. I cant see the motivation in getting an apprentice when you KNOW the bastard will eventually try and kill you.

Hello everyone. As I've been looking through this thread that I've started, I've seen some strong points made for my posistion (which is that the Jedi are not purely good). As mentioned long before, I am a promoter of the Sith and their philosophy. I do not believe for one second that GL made Star Wars and expected everyone to be a supporter of the Jedi (and all the other "good guys"😉. I sincerely believe that the "good"guys are so filled with corruption and wishy wash philosophy that it makes them appear to be weak and unable to hold up to their supposed "goodness". I mean, Obi-Wan clearly LIES to Luke in Ep IV telling him about his father, then in Ep VI, he tells Luke that he was telling the truth "from a certain point of view"... How wishy wash is that!

On the other hand, the Sith are loyal to their cause (minus Vader because of the prophecy of the one who is to bring balance to the Force). The Sith seem to be strong and confident in their posistion. I believe they have been misunderstood so much. I think that they do want peace, justice, and order-- but they go about it in a different way-- suprisingly though, their way actually seems effective as it utilizes ruthlessness which does yeild results despite what hippy philosophers have stated through the ages. It's all a matter of science-- survival of the fittest, if you will.

The Sith are strong. The Empire is strong. Palpatine DID bring justice to the galaxy using the methods that he did. He rounded up the greedy beurocrates (like Gunray) and set them up in a posistion where he could use them in a situation where destroying them later would be justifiable. By getting rid of the corrupt individuals in the galaxy Palpatine created a stronger and healthier government.

Star Wars is deffinately NOT black and white. That's dumb to say it is.

And you have only proved one thing: That you support anything that gets results, regardless of the motives, or the means to acheive them. Your entire argument shows that you would clearly support the Nazi's cause, because it is consistant, strong, and they are loyal. You would also support the terrorists in their cause, because again, very loyal, very strong and consistant.

Great, so what's the point other then you are a fanatic?

Originally posted by Vanquish
And you have only proved one thing: That you support anything that gets results, regardless of the motives, or the means to acheive them. Your entire argument shows that you would clearly support the Nazi's cause, because it is consistant, strong, and they are loyal. You would also support the terrorists in their cause, because again, very loyal, very strong and consistant.

Great, so what's the point other then you are a fanatic?

You are quite narrow minded. I support Palpatine's stance. He wants peace and justice and he gets peace and justice. And just because I support a fictional governmental position doesn't mean I side in real life with freakin' Nazi's and terrorists.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
This is ridiculous. Star Wars is a simple morality tale of good and evil. The Jedi are good and the Sith evil. Any attempt to complicate that has missed the point of Star Wars entirely.

well said. well said indeed.

Palpy_666, the problem with every statement you have made is that it has no substance what so ever. You have ONLY stated that you support strong, loyal, and consistant viewpoints, and that you support anyone who wants peace and justice and gets it. That leaves you open to everything I said, plus more.

How about instead of stating a clearly fanatical viewpoint, you actually go into exactly WHAT about it that you like? What morals do the sith have that you share? what Sith values do you respect? What exactly about Vader and Palpy do you agree with, other then dictatorship BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY !!!

Start from there, and we can have an educated conversation. But i'm sorry, I can't speak intelligently with someone who has only said he supports Palpy's quest for supreme power, and overlooks the obviously extreme and violent means he uses to get it. You're argument is terribly lacking so far...

Originally posted by tlbauerle
What the hell? Do we call you Lance? Do we call you Ken?

How about, "Your Modship?"

Call me Ken, that's my real name anyways.

Hey palpy_666... i have read every post in this thread (yes it took a while) and have come up with my viewpoint.

You can't say you support someone who wants peace and justice when the only way he tries to achieve this is is through genocide (alderan), and other such heinous acts. Talk about lacking any morals! If you wish to side with the Sith, thats entirely up to you, but i think you need to clarify your reasons a little better.

Others in the post have claimed that there are many grey areas. We need to remember, and im going to use GL here, that the man himself has said that Star Wars is a story about good overcoming evil... simple as that. The basic themes throughout the saga are that of Jedi V Sith, so called Rebels V Empire... ie good V evil.

I am not suggesting an empire is evil purely because it is an empire, rather i am saying that the basic ideals behind the empire come from a man who is pure evil in every sense. To lead through tyranny and oppression reminds me a lot... and i hate to use this example... of Nazi Germany, and there have been other examples in history.

Of course other individuals in the saga, eg han, lando etc, are not as clear cut in terms of black and white as some have suggested, but what is definitely black and white in my opinion is the basic good v evil theme evident in the entire saga. We need to remember this is sci-fi... ie Science-FICTION...

Sith: Decisive, cares for world order -- like anyone else and destroys oppositions, and no red tape. Fear keeps the world in order.

Republic: Corrupt, can't make any decision without red tape... Does not care for world order as long as someone gets rich.

If good guys always wore white hats and called their powers the light side, I'd call that propaganda.

Sometimes a brush fire is needed to clear the area of the Serengetti for fresh life....

Ultra Cool thread I've always liked the Sith more than the Jedi, but good will always triumph over evil....Palpatine is just making it look like the Sith have morally good intensions and the Jedi are corrupt and no good, its just his way of getting Anakin to side with him

P.S. does anyone have Jedi action 2 tv spot in wmv format?

Originally posted by XX Emperor XX
Ultra Cool thread I've always liked the Sith more than the Jedi, but good will always triumph over evil....Palpatine is just making it look like the Sith have morally good intensions and the Jedi are corrupt and no good, its just his way of getting Anakin to side with him

P.S. does anyone have Jedi action 2 tv spot in wmv format?

Again, you guys are placing conceptual terms upon neutral actions/thought (e.g "good" and "evil"😉. There really is no good and evil. For, one man's good is another man's evil and visa versa. As stated before in this thread "There are heroes on both sides". I completely agree.

Sure Palpatine is telling Anakin that the Jedi are corrupt so that way he could gain his trust. But he speaks truth! Arrogance and other flaws are found in even "some of the older, more experienced Jedi".

"Good always triumphs over evil"... again.. what some consider good is what some consider evil!

Originally posted by Vanquish
Palpy_666, the problem with every statement you have made is that it has no substance what so ever. You have ONLY stated that you support strong, loyal, and consistant viewpoints, and that you support anyone who wants peace and justice and gets it. That leaves you open to everything I said, plus more.

How about instead of stating a clearly fanatical viewpoint, you actually go into exactly WHAT about it that you like? What morals do the sith have that you share? what Sith values do you respect? What exactly about Vader and Palpy do you agree with, other then dictatorship BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY !!!

Start from there, and we can have an educated conversation. But i'm sorry, I can't speak intelligently with someone who has only said he supports Palpy's quest for supreme power, and overlooks the obviously extreme and violent means he uses to get it. You're argument is terribly lacking so far...

I support the Sith because the Sith do not have moral obligations and constraints placed upon them. They do not have a strict code of conduct which robbs them of their natural desires. They are truly free to do as they please.

The Sith make usage of the Dark Side of the Force (accessible through anger and rage). Anger and rage are normal feelings and can be used for beneficial purposes such as obtaining your end goal. The Sith care primarily about themselves-- and so they should. This is exactly what nature is about-- survival of the fittest and self preservation. Darwinism is evident everywhere in nature-- even human nature. But for some reason the Jedi place restrictions on normal behavior such as thinking of a member of the opposite sex in a normal manner-- "Be mindful of your thoughts, Anakin. They betray you (Obi-Wan to Anakin in Ep II when Anakin comments about Padme being intoxicating to him). The Jedi forbid love. That's rediculous.

I also side with the Empire and Palpatine's plan because it is a solid plan to bring TRUE, unbiased, un hypocritical, and un corrupt order to the galaxy. It is a plan completely devoid of mindless and greedy beurocrates, a plan that brings stability and justice.

The Jedi will kill a Sith anytime, Just because he's a sith. No other reason.

That is why Palpatine has to wipe out the Jedi before he can gain control of the galaxy. If they didnt have a problem with him, they wouldn't have to die..

But they're so stubborn "Sith are Evil, Jedi are Good".

I have another thought for you "Sith have the best plan" thinking...

Since when do the means justify the end?

It's amazing how we glorify Alexander the Great and others like him who have simply taken what was not theirs to take... (and this is coming from a Greek!)

Well, I can't reach any other conclusion other then Palpy_666 strongly believes in dictatorships, and has no problem with mass genocide as a means to exterminate any and all opposition.

He feels that since a few of the Jedi have minor flaws such as arrogance, that it justifies what the Sith represent at heart, which is death, destruction, violence, genocide, murder, and the thirst for ultimate power. Just your basic good family values I would say, LOL

Originally posted by palpy_666
I support the Sith because the Sith do not have moral obligations and constraints placed upon them. They do not have a strict code of conduct which robbs them of their natural desires. They are truly free to do as they please.

The Sith make usage of the Dark Side of the Force (accessible through anger and rage). Anger and rage are normal feelings and can be used for beneficial purposes such as obtaining your end goal. The Sith care primarily about themselves-- and so they should. This is exactly what nature is about-- survival of the fittest and self preservation. Darwinism is evident everywhere in nature-- even human nature. But for some reason the Jedi place restrictions on normal behavior such as thinking of a member of the opposite sex in a normal manner-- "Be mindful of your thoughts, Anakin. They betray you (Obi-Wan to Anakin in Ep II when Anakin comments about Padme being intoxicating to him). The Jedi forbid love. That's rediculous.

The jedi have these codes in place because the Jedi have to be free minded. They can not allow for things such as love, and commitment to get in the way of what needs to be done. In Episode 2 if you remember when padme falls out of the ship Anakin completely loses focus on the mission of catching Dooku and ending the war because he is destracted about Padme."Anakin don't let your personal feelings get in the way"-(OB1), also when Anakin left to go help his mother he jeopardised the mission of protecting Padme b/c he was attached to his mother, he feared her lose. "The fear of lose is the path to the dark side" (Yoda) reason why training to be a jedi starts very young, Anakin was already to old.

Same goes for Luke his vision of Han and Leia clouded the rest of his training in EP V because he was attached to them. That is why the Jedi have codes that forbid certain things to prevent them from having clouded visions

[QUOTE=3730806]Originally posted by Ushgarak
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"The Sith seem to have an unquestionable amount of loyality"

What on EARTH do you mean by that? The whole point of the Sith is that there is NO loyalty! One of the Apprentice or Master will always kill the other!

Exactly I mean didnt Palps have DOOKU eliminated by Anakin. Cmon now the very same SITH lord that turned over the DEATH STAR plans, trained Grevious to kill JEDI, started a war and then in the end for all of his hard work he got sliced and diced and Palps was suppose to be his boy. Now if thats not a blantant form of disloyalty and betrayal I dont know what is.