Darth Sidious vs. Darth Revan

Okay I'm starting this thread because me and some other members started arguing about it in the Revan vs. Dooku thread. So who do you think is the baddest sith there ever was? Darth Revan the apprentice of Kreia aka. Darth Traya, master of Darth Malak Victor of the mandalorian wars, finder of the Star Forge, master of Malachor V, initiator of the big Jedi Civil War and the person that let the republic tremble at the almost-defeat of the republic; or is it going to be Darth Sidious the apprentice of Darth Plagueis, master of Darth Maul, Tyranus and Vader, initiator of the seperatistic movement and the clone wars, the man responsible for order 66 aka. the purge, the supreme chancellor of the republic without being noticed by the jedi and the creator of the Galactic Empire. Who is it going to be? It's your choice, choose wisely.

Revan

Revan i already said my arguments in the other thread, but I'll just state them again here for the sake of arguing..

Lets just take a look at what the two did.

Sidious his toughest battle was facing four masters including Windu.

Revan his toughest battle is unknown but when he was facing five masters and Bastila (masters that were incredibly powerful to be allowed to go there) he just stood there. Not joining his troops when he could have gotten an advantage, only igniting his lightsaber at the last second. Take an stance waiting for them to come instead of taking out the one that was near so that he would have one less opponent by the time the rest was finished with their enemy's. He also casually choked a Republic officer just for the hell of it. If Revan feared them he would have had them killed before they landed on his ship, or he would have send an army of Dark Jedi to deal with them.
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Sidious conquered the republic that did not have a real army, with deceptions tricks and politics. He maneuvered himself in ways that few politicians could have done and he was brilliant in it. The fact however remains that he never raged a head on war against the Jedi Order, and did not want to do so until it was severely weakened. He was brilliant I'll give you that, but a politician without any fighting. Even when he could have controlled the clone army and the separatist army's he refused to use them. Instead he just let those two fight killing as many Jedi as possible in the battles.

Revan left the Jedi Order to fight for he believed was right, he faced the Mandelorians and lead the Republic to victory against the Mandelorians when no else could. After the Mandelorians were defeated he used the republic troops loyal to him to launch a new war. Revan could have become councillor and Jedi Master, but he wanted the war. He needed the war, it made him stronger. It challenged him, thats what he wanted. To proof how great he was, to train and become stronger by crushing your opponents.

Now the argument could be made that Sidious faced more and more powerful Jedi and opponents, but thats bullshit. Revan faced thousands of Jedi. Most of them had faced Sith in their lives, they had seen battle and war. The republic during Sidious his time was a stagnant beast, with no wars or challenges. Revan faced experienced Jedi in greater numbers while Sidious faced unexperienced Jedi that were used to peace with lower numbers. Still he didn't fight them head on, not even when he could have controlled almost all army's in the Galaxy at that time.

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The Star Forge is one of the most powerful tools Revan has, but even with an infinite amount of ships he will still need troops. Troops he had from the start and he only got more. Seeing as Revan started out with a Republic fleet, he had to have been successful with just that fleet otherwise he wouldn't have been able to fill the Star Forge fleet. Meaning basically that Revan did not need the Star Forge from the beginning. He would have been able to do a lot against the Republic without it, he did. The Star forge was just a temporary tool. Revan left the republic intact and he obviously had the intention to eventually destroy or stop using the star forge knowing what happened to the Infinite Empire. He would not have wanted something like that to happen to his Empire.

the Star Forge was kinda like the Death Star, a means to an end. Revan would use the forces there to create a larger fleet and the death star had the same purpose, only in a different way. When Revan still wanted to face the Republic head one. Sidious his Death star was meant to scare the rebellion into surrendering. Once again without any real combat.

When you see the second Death Star, Sidious has an huge advantage, he has a battle station and a larger fleet. Obviously he does not trust his fleet or his military genius, otherwise he would have challenged the Rebellion before that, he probably would have pulled it off.

Another thing about the Star Forge, to be able to control it you need a huge command of the force. Malak had this but he was not able to control it, he was able to make it work. Revan however managed to let it work for him. He did not use the Star Forge like Malak did, because he could keep control of the mighty machine.

After Revan and Malak many Siths tried to take over the Star Forge but all failed, they couldn't control it and died trying to do so. These were Sith that had seen a lot of combat had faced plenty of Jedi and had done a lot of impressive things in their lives. They couldn't control it.

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Now i know how you feel about Malachor V, but start a new Kotor II game make Revan a Dark Male and then go to Korriban, find your way into Uthars room and listen to the Holocron Bastila left. Malachor V was just an means to destroying the Mandelorians and the people that would probably not support him.

In conclusion: Sidious his greatest battle does not even compare to the greatest we know about Revan. Even if we did not see Revan fight, we all know that he would have finished the Jedi there.

While Sidious was using tricks to weaken the Republic Revan just faced them head on. He went to war to become stronger. Sidious was more then willing to just take the power without fighting. Revan wanted to face the Republic he wanted the challange. He wanted to proof himself and grow. Sidious did not.

The Star Forge was important for Revan to be able to support the incredible amount of troops that would join him, but he left the Republic in tact and saw it only as a temporary tool until he could use the Republic to build the rest of his fleet so that he could just destroy the star forge and end its problems once and for all.

From all of that I can come to only one conclusion. Revan is more powerful, more willing to fight, has more experience, seen a lot more combat a better control of the force to be able to resist the star forge. Revan all in all just outclasses Sidious in everything but Politics.

Revan's approach to politics was destabilization throughy assassination. He employed the HK droids to eliminate political threats to his expansion.

He only employed one of the HK droids... HK-47 was the only one he ever made and far superior to the rip off versions that were around in Kotor II

G0-T0 never managed to perfect his droids...

(if you wanna know more about that please start another thread or something, i kinda want to see what will happen in this one)

Revan had no need for trickery, he could outsmart the Republic in battle or use brute force, whichever he preferred. Revan truly is an army of one. Notice that the Mandalorians were winning until Revan took control of the Republic forces and defeated them. Then he defeated the side he was just fighting for with only half of the forces the Republic had. Then (light side) he could turn around and defeat the Sith empire that he created. We also saw how long it lasted without him (dark side).

I'm convinced now, that Revan truly is the better tactical war genius, he probably would have had even more combat skills, but I still think Sidious was a genius in infiltrating the republic and using all the conflicts as tools, to make him the emperor. Maybe Revan would have beaten him in a lightsaber combat, but I still think that Sidious was more powerful in using the force. But if Revan would lead a war against Sidious and both sides would have a fleet with the same strength, then Revan would win by far I admit it. 😒 😒

But Palpatine controls the church! Ha hA!!

I'm gonna have to go with Revan, for many of the reasons mentioned by Fishy, Darth Revan33, and Janus.

It's just hard for me to believe that the video-game bad guy is more powerful than the ultimate movie bad guy.

And therein lies your problem: both are fantasy and fiction. Why choose one over the other? Because one's filmed?

Probably because I see the films as the main storys in the star wars galaxy. I'm just a little traditional. 😉

No problem with being traditional. Just remember, tradition isn't open to new ideas and new concepts. It's nice to have steadfast belief in things, but it can lead to stagnation. And the Star Wars universe would be stagnate indeed without EU.

I have nothing against the EU. I mean the EU is great, but I've seen the star wars movies as the highlight of the star wars history. And I still see Sidious as the ultimate bad guy. I mean like he's purified evil. I think Revan was great leading an entire Army to crush the republic, but I don't think he has the purified evil in him as Sidious had.

I agree with you there. revan was never pure evil. Sidious is malicious evil, and, being much closer to the definition of evil, is full of betrayal, shifty behaviour, and much more.

Well then it seems like we finally agreed in something on this topic. 😉

i love revan, he just emulates everything that it cool about being a psychotic loony with a lightsbaer and probably damaged the republic the most through brute force and tactical brilliance. But perhaps Sidious realised that all the attempts of the Sith to take the Republic through brute force had failed for a reason and that he realised it just couldnt be done no matter how strong the sith were so he began his political game and suceeded in destroying the jedi and the republic. It's just a thought . . .

Possibly, but seeing as how Revan's forceful take-over of the Republic was only thwarted due to a Sith's act of betrayal, it's doubtful that was the case. You don't need war or a battle as a backdrop for betrayal; Maul or Tyranus could've betrayed Sids just as easily as Malak betrayed Revan.

I think if they got two armies together, and had a battle age of empires style, revan would win....but in a one on one fight, Sidious all the way. IMHO.

Originally posted by Fishy
Revan i already said my arguments in the other thread, but I'll just state them again here for the sake of arguing..

Lets just take a look at what the two did.

Sidious his toughest battle was facing four masters including Windu.

Revan his toughest battle is unknown but when he was facing five masters and Bastila (masters that were incredibly powerful to be allowed to go there) he just stood there. Not joining his troops when he could have gotten an advantage, only igniting his lightsaber at the last second. Take an stance waiting for them to come instead of taking out the one that was near so that he would have one less opponent by the time the rest was finished with their enemy's. He also casually choked a Republic officer just for the hell of it. If Revan feared them he would have had them killed before they landed on his ship, or he would have send an army of Dark Jedi to deal with them.
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Sidious conquered the republic that did not have a real army, with deceptions tricks and politics. He maneuvered himself in ways that few politicians could have done and he was brilliant in it. The fact however remains that he never raged a head on war against the Jedi Order, and did not want to do so until it was severely weakened. He was brilliant I'll give you that, but a politician without any fighting. Even when he could have controlled the clone army and the separatist army's he refused to use them. Instead he just let those two fight killing as many Jedi as possible in the battles.

Revan left the Jedi Order to fight for he believed was right, he faced the Mandelorians and lead the Republic to victory against the Mandelorians when no else could. After the Mandelorians were defeated he used the republic troops loyal to him to launch a new war. Revan could have become councillor and Jedi Master, but he wanted the war. He needed the war, it made him stronger. It challenged him, thats what he wanted. To proof how great he was, to train and become stronger by crushing your opponents.

Now the argument could be made that Sidious faced more and more powerful Jedi and opponents, but thats bullshit. Revan faced thousands of Jedi. Most of them had faced Sith in their lives, they had seen battle and war. The republic during Sidious his time was a stagnant beast, with no wars or challenges. Revan faced experienced Jedi in greater numbers while Sidious faced unexperienced Jedi that were used to peace with lower numbers. Still he didn't fight them head on, not even when he could have controlled almost all army's in the Galaxy at that time.

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The Star Forge is one of the most powerful tools Revan has, but even with an infinite amount of ships he will still need troops. Troops he had from the start and he only got more. Seeing as Revan started out with a Republic fleet, he had to have been successful with just that fleet otherwise he wouldn't have been able to fill the Star Forge fleet. Meaning basically that Revan did not need the Star Forge from the beginning. He would have been able to do a lot against the Republic without it, he did. The Star forge was just a temporary tool. Revan left the republic intact and he obviously had the intention to eventually destroy or stop using the star forge knowing what happened to the Infinite Empire. He would not have wanted something like that to happen to his Empire.

the Star Forge was kinda like the Death Star, a means to an end. Revan would use the forces there to create a larger fleet and the death star had the same purpose, only in a different way. When Revan still wanted to face the Republic head one. Sidious his Death star was meant to scare the rebellion into surrendering. Once again without any real combat.

When you see the second Death Star, Sidious has an huge advantage, he has a battle station and a larger fleet. Obviously he does not trust his fleet or his military genius, otherwise he would have challenged the Rebellion before that, he probably would have pulled it off.

Another thing about the Star Forge, to be able to control it you need a huge command of the force. Malak had this but he was not able to control it, he was able to make it work. Revan however managed to let it work for him. He did not use the Star Forge like Malak did, because he could keep control of the mighty machine.

After Revan and Malak many Siths tried to take over the Star Forge but all failed, they couldn't control it and died trying to do so. These were Sith that had seen a lot of combat had faced plenty of Jedi and had done a lot of impressive things in their lives. They couldn't control it.

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Now i know how you feel about Malachor V, but start a new Kotor II game make Revan a Dark Male and then go to Korriban, find your way into Uthars room and listen to the Holocron Bastila left. Malachor V was just an means to destroying the Mandelorians and the people that would probably not support him.

In conclusion: Sidious his greatest battle does not even compare to the greatest we know about Revan. Even if we did not see Revan fight, we all know that he would have finished the Jedi there.

While Sidious was using tricks to weaken the Republic Revan just faced them head on. He went to war to become stronger. Sidious was more then willing to just take the power without fighting. Revan wanted to face the Republic he wanted the challange. He wanted to proof himself and grow. Sidious did not.

The Star Forge was important for Revan to be able to support the incredible amount of troops that would join him, but he left the Republic in tact and saw it only as a temporary tool until he could use the Republic to build the rest of his fleet so that he could just destroy the star forge and end its problems once and for all.

From all of that I can come to only one conclusion. Revan is more powerful, more willing to fight, has more experience, seen a lot more combat a better control of the force to be able to resist the star forge. Revan all in all just outclasses Sidious in everything but Politics.

Agreed. And by the way, that was an excellent post, it said everything I wanted to say.