Originally posted by jackstain
I think if they got two armies together, and had a battle age of empires style, revan would win....but in a one on one fight, Sidious all the way. IMHO.
Juuuuust curious, Jack. What's the basis of your opinion? Is it because you dig old men in drag or what? C'mon... try some reasons.
i think sid has no chance in saber duel.
even thou he was pure evil, revan had far more knowledge of the force then sidious, considering that it was almost lost untill his time.
also, defeating yoda and windu is quite an achievement, yet, revan defeated almost all of the jedi order during the best ages of the order.
Well yeah, but how did Revan beat most of the jedi order? He surely didn't fight against them in one on one combat. He ordered armys to fight against the jedi. So you can't compare that with Sidious fighting against four jedi masters at the same time. And you also can't be sure, that Sidious would have no chance in a lightsaber duel. We all know that the most powerful force-users were the ones that used the force as little as possible (as seen in Yoda and Mara Jade preaching to Jacen or Anakin Solo in the NJO). Sidious could have a very good chance against Revan.
All we know about Sidious is that he faced four Jedi Masters, Revan had more then that following him during the Mandelorian wars.
Sidious avoided combat when Revan drew it out. Sidious was using tricks to conquer the republic, revan was using the military. Sidious didn't even fight when he had control of all army's, he still wanted to weaken the Jedi in an internal struggle. Revan always faced his opponents. Sidious wanted power without fighting, revan wanted to fight. Revan grew up during wars, he proved himself during wars. He has fought wars for a long period in his life. Sidious however never fought. He did not face as many Jedi, Sith or normal soldiers as Revan. He always placed himself behind the scenes, he could have been powerful but he was afraid of something otherwise he would just have taken the Republic.
No instead he had to use cheap tricks to conquer the Republic, yes they worked and it was brilliant. But Sidious was never an actual fighter. He used politics instead of military power, he let others weaken his enemy's instead of facing them himself.
He simply did not have the experience Revan had. He did not face the Jedi Revan faced, during wars he kept himself on a distance not fighting but sending his servants. Revan fought himself, he proved himself threw combat. Something that Sidious never did. Sidious may have been powerful, but he wouldn't have stood a chance against somebody who has fought his entire life, who has faced more Jedi and Sith then Sidious even knew existed
Okay now let's just leave out the whole part with conquering the republic and so on and just think about a lightsaber duel. We don't get to see Revan fight and the Jedi that boarded his ship weren't THE most powerful jedi of that time, those were just some powerful jedi, because we don't see Vrook, Vandar or Kavar and whoever else was considered most powerful jedi at that time. But at the time of ROTS Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, the Iktochi jedi and the Zabrak jedi were all in the council on Coruscant. So that means that Sidious deals with THE most powerful jedi at that time, except for Yoda, at the same time. And later he also takes care of Yoda. So what does this mean?
That means he faced a few Jedi that never fought before...
Now you are right in saying those guys on Revan his ship weren't the most powerful Jedi of all time, they were incredibly powerful how ever. The entire Jedi Council on Dantooine says so when you talk to them about the mission, they all agree on the power of those people and that they were amongst the most powerful Jedi of the time in order to be allowed to capture Revan. Bastila is only there because of her battle meditation.
So Revan was indeed about to fight against some of the most powerful Jedi of the time, and he was not worried.
Now about the most powerful Masters, Kavar admits that he can't beat Malak, Revan his apprentice who couldn't beat Revan. Meaning Kavar can't beat Revan either. Seeing as Kavar is second only to vrook it pretty much means that the rest could not beat Revan either.
Kreia kills all those masters with just one move of her hand and she admits to being weaker then Revan. Yet still she does it without any problem. Doesn't that mean that Revan could do the same? Kill Kavar, Vrook, Zal Kal El or whatever his name was easily?
The Council on Coruscant is pretty empty when the Exile shows up there to be judged. Seeing as Disciple talks about Council members joining Revan I'm just going to assume the empty seats belong to council members who followed Revan.
Now they followed Revan they did not command Revan. They did not return to the Jedi after the destruction of the Mandelorians. And if they did you never hear about them, which would be strange considering how important they are. So they either died or they followed Revan further. Disciple talks directly about one that followed Revan even after Revan returned as a Sith Lord (he only talks about that one, because thats one the Exile and Disciple are both supposed to know)
Basically meaning that Revan had Jedi Councillors working for him, and they were to afraid to challenge him for control even as they embraced the Sith teachings. They couldn't even challenge Malak and he was weaker then Revan thats for sure. Sidious may have fought the most powerful Jedi of his time. Revan had them following him, or defeated them. Every single last one of those masters knows they are weaker then Revan, many admit to it. He would have killed them all, there is no denying to it. The Masters were lucky that they had always managed to run from Revan and that he lost his memory but Revan would have killed them all.
He has more training more experience and seen more wars. Sids would die
I do think Revan would win, but I dont think people are giving Sidious his due; when you read some of the old republic novels you see all the trickery Sidious devised and how manically ingenious he was and its a weak insult to say that these were stupid tricks. He sabotaged the outbound project as well.
I hate most EU...im sick of the stupidity of these 'overpowerd' EU characters.
You only say he's "overpowered" because he's more powerful than Sidious. Sidious is considered the most powerful modern practicioner of the Sith arts. The keyword here, children, is modern.
mod·ern (maw-durn)
adj.
1.
a. Of or relating to recent times or the present: modern history.
b. Characteristic or expressive of recent times or the present; contemporary or up-to-date: a modern lifestyle; a modern way of thinking.
2.
a. Of or relating to a recently developed or advanced style, technique, or technology: modern art; modern medicine.
b. Avant-garde; experimental.
No one ever said Sidious was the most powerful Force user of all time, just the most powerful modern praciticioner. So who says no one more powerful could have ever existed? Apparently George Lucas doesn't. Even Anakin isn't considered the most powerful Force user ever, just potentially the most powerful in his time, potentially one of the most powerful ever.
Essentially, it comes down to you walking into someone's house and claiming you hate the way it looks because you think white paint is 'overdone'. If you don't like it, get out of the house.
Just a quick refutation, btw, Sith Killer:
Sideous did have the power to create or at least as he will prove maintain life "stop death"....
No he didn't. He simply had clones of himself made. When one was wore out from the Dark Side of the Force, Palpy simply shuffled his spirit into an awaiting clone body. Now, that's still power as he IS swapping bodies with the Force, but he doesn't have 'power over life'.
Real quick...
That means he faced a few Jedi that never fought before...
Err... not necessarily, Fishy. They were all respectable fighters, as evidenced by their participation during the Clone Wars; Mace Windu was extremely fearsome. Sidious didn't even defeat him in combat. Could he have? Maybe. We'll never know; Sidious instead decided to use subterfuge.