Official Doctor Who Thread

Originally posted by Eclipso
Wow, you really can't make a counter arugment without petty insults can you? (This is what i love about fanboys) Try talking more objectively.

They did explain the other Cyber-men, he explained how the same thing happened in the normal reality only that they spread across the galaxy.

As for the Daleks, since they have been wiped out more then once and they keep comming back so no real need for explanation there. He explained Davros as just "A madman in charge of his own little world", didn't need anymore then that.

Same with The Master, It's a simple way to explain it.

The Time War is refferenced from books featuring the 8th Doctor who first appeared in the 1996 movie.

Try to make your arguements without petty insults.

My comments are not petty. I simply make apt comments to people acting in stupid ways, like you are. You like to call them childish insults because you are on the receiving end. But you deserve criticism for trying to equate such specious balderdash with comments based on rationality and genuine sources, like mine. Talk nonsense and I will call it nonsense. Lie and distort to try and back your views, and I will slap you down for it.

Your comments do absolutely nothing to change my assertion about how your ideas that they would reference old continutiy is wrong. A throwaway reference to the original Cybermen means nothing- conceptually they gave the Cybermen a new continuity, totally divorced from the old.

Secondly...

You are absolutely wrong to say ther Time War is based off the books

That is totally and utterly untrue. The new series continuity has NOTHING to do with the books at all. The Time War is a brand new plot created specifically for the series. I have absolutely no clue what gave you that idea, other than probably your own rabid imagination once more.

The Master, absolutely and totally, WILL be portrayed as a Time Lord if he ever returnsbecause that is conceptually what he is- the Evil Time Lord. That is the point, plot-wise, of him existing. You trying to make out that explaining tons and tons of irrelevant past continuity is 'simple' is ridiciulous. You would lose most your audience. Again, RTD's views on this kind of thing are very clear.

Your point about SJS only backs me up. They didn't get bogged down in a wash of continuity about how she actually HAD seen the Doc again in 'The Five Doctors', or how she never actually travelled with K-9 at all, did they? Nom, they skipped all that because it would hgave been gibberish to all but the old fans, who make up a small proportion of the audience. And the 8th Doctor TV movie had nothing to do with the Time War either! Good Lord, you expose such ignorance on every post! Stop trying to talk about things you have no idea about...

... and start talking sense, Eclipso... start thinking before you post, and then you will get respect. As it is, you are relying on lies (you pretending with the Watcher) and untruths (your comment there about the Time War). Feeble. No-one is under any obligation to 'understand and respect' views that are so obviously nonsensical and based on such falsehoods.

And you still seem to be unable to debate without the petty insults, at least you proved me right about that.

Perhaps you should read the 8th Doctor books. Even Russel T Davies talked about it. And I have never heard him make any refference to The Master at all, since The Master is no longer a Time Lord. They didn't have to get "bogged" down about Sarah Jane Smith, netheir would they about The Master, they give a very quick and simple explanation about what happened between him and The Doctor in the 1996 movie and move on, the audience would accept it.

Your problem is that you are so close minded that you cannot accept any opinion that is not your own, and you aren't mature enough to debate against it without resorting to petty insults as the backbone of your arguement. By behaving that way you make yourself look far more silly then you claim I do. Learn to be more open minded and learn to calm down and remember it is only a TV show. Your acting like those Star Wars guys in the movie lines that flip out if you make a joke about the movies.

Originally posted by Eclipso
That's your opinion, and you have every right to feel that way, and it's nice that you can express it without childish remarks.

I belive that they can integrate in the character of The Master without much difficulty. When they brought in Sarah Jane Smith you didn't have to go back and watch the old episodes did you?

If they do change it so that The Master is a Time Lord again it will alienate allot of older fans who make up the fan base of the show. So it's a no win situation so you might as well keep with established history of the character which is in a movie which introduces the 8th Doctor which is based around the Time War which the new series is heavily based around.

I'm not asking you to agree with me, you have the right to your opinion just as (and Ush might wanna take notes on this) I have the right to my own. You don't have to agree with it, just respect that it is my opinion.

Since it is obvious that nethier of us is likely to agree with the other, and we have examined all sides of this. There really is no point in going further.

Now I expect there will be a counter post to this tommorow with lots of insults and redicule. So I will sit back and await the inevitable.

And if your going to quote me, try not to edit it.

Edit what? What are you talking about?

Again, what YOU call petty insults, I simply call the truth, something you seem to have trouble with. The truth, meanwhile, is the backbone of my argument. When you learn to stop lying and pretending knowledge over areas where you have none, your argument will improve. I didn't have to make up such things- you proved yourself totally unreliable with what you have posted earlier, again, about The Watcher, and saying the new series is based on the 8th Doctor books, another thing which is manifestly and obviously not true.

Secondly, I HAVE read the 8th Doctor books. They have absolutely nothing to do with the plot of the tv series at all. Unless you think SJS met the Eighth Doctor and then got shot dead, several years before School Reunion? There is no plot connection at all. Zero. They continually contradict each other, not that that is a rarity in Who. Again- tv series has a totally new and original plot. Nothing to do with the books at all. Nothing. At. All. The Time War is a new plot RTD made up for the new tv series- FACT.

I am not even slightly close minded. I am absolutely open to all manner of decent speculation. What I have trouble with is patent idiocy. You keep getting things wrong and I cna have no respect for that.

It's spelt "can" not cna.

Well then your disgaring with Russel Davies who himself has stated that the Time War storyline comes out of the 8th Doctor books.

And you still managed to get an insult in there. You need to develop a more mature debating technique. In a real debating situation you wouldn't last with that kind of behavior. Learn to relax and realize it's simply a TV show.

As far as The Watcher, I was going off what the other person posted about him and based on THAT I explained how he could be intergrated. You should visit some other messege boards online, they seem to think that The Master can be brought in WITH the 1996 storyline.

Oh wow, resorting to pointing out tiny typos now! The true betrayal of the juvenile and desperate mind. You should be ashamed.

Err, Russel T Davies said no such thing about the Time War coming out the 8th Doctor books. There were simply questions about how in the 8th Doctor books Gallifrey is also destroyed, under different circumstances in an entirely different plot (something which put it so badly out of kilter with the show that they desperately wrote'The Gallifrey Chronicles' so that Gallifrey could be re-built in time to be destroyed ayain in the tv series Time War). There are, however, plenty of interviews where RTD talk about how he decided to invent the Time War as a plot for the new series , basing it off not the books but Genesis of the Daleks (that was in Doctor Who Confidential so not hard for you to find), as a means of keeping the Doctor mysterious and getting the Time Lords off-stage.

Put-downs are entirely appropriate to a debate where someone acts like you are. it is not a sign of immaturity. Take it like man and stop whining just because I have called you out on making an ass of yourself.

With the Watcher you made an idiot of yourself, it is no more complicated than that. And of course the Master CAN be brought back with that. He simply WON'T be. It would be a silly mistake to do so, it does not match how they have treated any other returning villain and it goes against what Davies says. All we have in favour of it is... you wanting it to happen. That's worth nothing. You just watch and see.

As for other message boards- well, we have rabid fans threatening tp boycott the show because of rumours that Paul Cornell is adpating 'Human Nature' for the tv series, which, continuity wise, would invalidate the book. So I think we can take for granted that such boards are full of fanboy idiots.

No they are not appropriate they are a sign of immature mind and as I said in a real debate setting you would be disqualified for such behavior.

And I admitted my error about The Watcher thing and you still find it nessecary to be insulting about it. This is what I mean by "petty".

I will scan the interview with Russel Davies when I can get to my local Kinko's.

And again you have no idea wether he will or not, it is simply your opinion as mine is, nothing more.

And you are acting far more like a fanboy then me.

It's simply a TV show don't over react about it.

No no, you see, this IS a real debate and I will use them happily, not caring about you thinking they are immature just because you are on the receiving end as a result of your lies and distortions.

Again, I am no fanboy, I simply know my facts. You are throwing the fanboy accusation at me because I am making you look silly. Fanboys prioritise their own egos over those of the show's makers. That is what you are doing, not me.

Well, let's see what official word RTD has had on this matter...

In Doctor Who Magazine 356 RTD states, directly and unequivocally, that there is no relation between the plot of the Books and the Time War of the series. Like I say, they had to write a new book to get Gallifrey re-created (so it could be destroyed again) because it was now so badly out of continuity because the books destroyed Gallifrey separately.

Well I will provide a scan to prove what I am saying. And I did not lie about The Watcher, I simply went off what some else on here said and explained how that could be intergrated.

You have no real idea WHAT Russel Davies will do with The Master, it is simply your OPINION, as mine is. It is not fact, nor the holy gospel you make it out to be.

Learn to appreciate a different perspective and you will be a far better debater because of it.

In pretending you knew what you were talking about with the Watcher, before I called you out on it, you were being deceptive; in any case you still made a fool of yourself. Again, I will never, ever appreciate foolish perspectives. The perspective that the Moon is made of cheese is not worthy of respect either.

Again, my points about RTD and the Master are supported by evidence. No evidence is 100% certain and conclusive but at least it is there. You just have what you yourself want which, as I say, is worthless.

Are you denying what RTD said in DWM? He makes it absolutely clear- no connection. It could not be any clearer.

BTW, if you think the books are in continuity- you do know that in the books the Master is a. a Time Lord and b. not a blobby thing of any description, yes?

I was not being deceptive about The Watcher at all, I simply read what another user said about him and showed how he could be intergrated based on what THE OTHER MEMEBER SAID. You seem to have a problem understanding that.

Also again, Russel Davies has not made ANY comments that I am aware of about The Master nor the 1996 movie. You are simply taking a comment about one situation and applying it to everything.

As I said I will scan the interview which I am reffering to and then you can read it for yourself. Please do the same with yours as I would be interested in seeing it.

Don't try to pawn off statements from Russel Davies. Unless they are DIRECTLY about the subject at hand. I.E The Master or the 1996 movie, meaning that they contain word refferences to them.

To have not been deceptive about the Watcher, rather than making out he was evidence that Time Lords existed, you instead should have said from the start "I have no idea who or what the Watcher is but I am going to pretend he supports my argument anyway."

Err, RTD made comments about the Master on DW Confidental- open for anyone to se. He said he would never bring him back- no Time Lords, no Master- but it was possible someone else might. As for the TVM, he also directly stated how stupid it would be to have tried to follow on the new series from Paul mcGann- he directly stated the idea that half the audience would have turned off if he had tried to link continuity like that. See, I take my comments from actually existing sources, unlike you.

So again... try and know what you are talking about before you criticise.

Got any comment on about the status of the Master in the books?

Eclipso, I noted that when you replied to my last post you completely and totally ignored a valid point that I made.

I really, really don't understand this claim that the Master is no longer a Time Lord. 'Time Lord' isn't a title or anything like that, it's an alien race. You don't STOP being one, just as someone doesn't stop being human or a cat stop being a cat

Would you care to address this? I was under the impression that when a Time Lord goes through all of their regenerations they die...but a dead Time Lord is still a Time Lord.

Which episode of Doctor Who Confidental did he make refference to The Master in?

And agian, I was simply going on what the other member said about The Watcher and showing how IF what he said HAD been true how it could be integrated with very little difficulty. He was the one who lied, not me.

No, he was making a certain interpretation. By using something you had no idea about as evidence, you were being deceptive. Certainly foolish because you left yourself open to looking rather silly, as indeed you did.

I cannot remember off the top of my head which one, though it was a first series one- probably the one about bad guys.

Dodging the thing about the Master in the books? Ruins your ideas, doesn't it?

What I mean is that biologicaly he is now different from a Time Lord, he also no longer posses a TARDIS, nor the abilities of a Time Lord. In fact he posses a totally different set of powers, unless of course The Doctor can posses people.

The closest thing you could call him would a Time Lord mutant and even that is a stretch.

Originally posted by Eclipso
What I mean is that biologicaly he is now different from a Time Lord, he also no longer posses a TARDIS, nor the abilities of a Time Lord. In fact he posses a totally different set of powers, unless of course The Doctor can posses people.

The closest thing you could call him would a Time Lord mutant and even that is a stretch.

But the fact remains that he still would be a Time Lord.

Ok, so again, you think the new series is based on the books, even though all of that you just said about the Master is not true in the books, yes?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, he was making a certain interpretation. By using something you had no idea about as evidence, you were being deceptive. Certainly foolish because you left yourself open to looking rather silly, as indeed you did.

I cannot remember off the top of my head which one, though it was a first series one- probably the one about bad guys.

Dodging the thing about the Master in the books? Ruins your ideas, doesn't it?

And we are back to the petty insults again.

And find out which one cause until you DO. Don't expect me to just blindly accept it.

No, I never claimed to have read the 8th Doctor books, (I simply went off what Russel Davies said about them which as I stated so many times I will scan and show you) but your saying The Master appears in them? If so which one?

Originally posted by Lana
But the fact remains that he still would be a Time Lord.

No he wouldn't be. If a human was transformed into a pile of jelly, biologicaly they are no longer a human.