Official Doctor Who Thread

This from the guy who insulted me for the last 5 pages or so.

Seems you could learn the same lesson.

Wether or not The Master was able to do this in previous incarnations is irrelevant. In this instance he was not able to operate the TARDIS without The Doctor's body, hence he did not posses the genetics that as you say are required.

Also, since we had no scientist in the movie to do a detialed explanation, we can only go on what was visualy presented, that being that he was not a time lord any more and now a new lifefrom.

Also again, If you reduce a human to a pile of moving goop, they are not a human anymore as they have a new biology. Our genetics determine our shape and biology. If one has changed so has the other.

And if blindly agreeing with you is how you expect your friends to act then that is your problem. I've pm'd Raz about this to get more input into the situation.

Well, I certainly insulted your knowledge and arguments as regarding to Doctor Who, as they were rather worth insulting as was plain to see. but I'd lay heavy money on Lana's scientific education is better than yours.

"Wether or not The Master was able to do this in previous incarnations is irrelevant. In this instance he was not able to operate the TARDIS without The Doctor's body, hence he did not posses the genetics that as you say are required."

Untrue! Read what I said- TARDISes are isomorphic., Even as a Time Lord the Master would not have been able to do that.

What we have visutally presented is open to interpretation. it is not hard fact as you want to make it out to be. What we know is that the master can change bodies and remain, genetically, a Time Lord. So that puts your certain statements otherwise rather up the spout.

You've PMed Raz about a tv argument? That's highly amusing...

And the sceince thing wasn't meant as an insult to her. Genetics determine biology and physiology. If her teacher taught her different it is the teachers fault not hers. Hence I was not insulting her.

In the past he was a timelord before he body jumped, this time he was nothing but a pile of moving goop. Visual evidence trumps speculation.

You have no idea what that goop is!

As it happens, the books followed the line that it was indeed a technological method of body switching; he remained very much a Time Lord.

The visual evidence is, as I say, open to interpretation.

Well, we'll see if your smug comment to Lana looks to her like an insult. It does to me and I sure as hell think it will to ger.

It's allot less then what you have said to me over the last 5 pages or so, you are hardly in a place to talk.

And in which book does it say that when a Timelord runs out of regerations and becomes a pile of goop that they are still a timelord.

As I have said over and over: Genetics determine biology and physiology. If one changes, then the other must.

It wasn't MENT as an insult but if she takes it as one then I do apologize.

Originally posted by Eclipso
Also again, If you reduce a human to a pile of moving goop, they are not a human anymore as they have a new biology. Our genetics determine our shape and biology. If one has changed so has the other.

What an inane idea! Genetics determine the physical makeup of an organism, yes. But if one's shape changes, then so does their genetic code? Excuse me, but wherever did you come up with that idea?

If I were to lop your arm off, would your genetic code change? I've changed your shape after all. By your reasoning, it would, and you would genetically be a one-armed person. And if you were ever to have children, then due to genetics they would have a 50/50 chance of being born with only one arm.

Closer to the Master's situation, how about if you were to dissolve my body with acid? Again, that's changing my shape. Am I genetically different? Hardly. I may be a messy pile of loose cells, but I'm still a pile of loose human cells.

Originally posted by Eclipso
It's allot less then what you have said to me over the last 5 pages or so, you are hardly in a place to talk.

And in which book does it say that when a Timelord runs out of regerations and becomes a pile of goop that they are still a timelord.

As I have said over and over: Genetics determine biology and physiology. If one changes, then the other must.

Well, in all the books where the Master was still a Time Lord?

And as to your other point- well, evidently that is not true in Doctor Who, because the Master has already broken that rule. He has totally changed his physiology yet remained, genetically, a Time Lord. Not supposition, this! Fact that has happened in the tv series.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
What an inane idea! Genetics determine the physical makeup of an organism, yes. But if one's shape changes, then so does their genetic code? Excuse me, but wherever did you come up with that idea?

If I were to lop your arm off, would your genetic code change? I've changed your shape after all. By your reasoning, it would, and you would genetically be a one-armed person. And if you were ever to have children, then due to genetics they would have a 50/50 chance of being born with only one arm.

Closer to the Master's situation, how about if you were to dissolve my body with acid? Again, that's changing my shape. Am I genetically different? Hardly. I may be a messy pile of loose cells, but I'm still a pile of loose human cells.

It is no where NEAR the same thing. There is a big difference in losing a limb and having your entire physiology change.

And using your 'acid' arguement, if you burn a peice of paper it is no longer paper it is ashes.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, in all the books where the Master was still a Time Lord?

And as to your other point- well, evidently that is not true in Doctor Who, because the Master has already broken that rule. He has totally changed his physiology yet remained, genetically, a Time Lord. Not supposition, this! Fact that has happened in the tv series.

Swtiching bodies is not the same thing as what happened in the movie.

So what you are claiming is that what makes a timelord a timelord is all in the mind since that is all that was the same before and after he became a pile of goop.

It doesn't matter if it is literally the same thing because a. if it possible for one it is possible for another and b. your point is about a total change of physiology. That's what he has already done, regardless of method, yet reamined a Time Lord

No, that is not what I am claiming. I don't know why you would make that up. As I have said, rather obviously, and repeatedly, it is apparent that when the Master changes bodies his new body is, genetically, a Time Lord's one. Else he would not have been able to pilot his TARDIS.

Originally posted by Eclipso
It is no where NEAR the same thing. There is a big difference in losing a limb and having your entire physiology change.

And using your 'acid' arguement, if you burn a peice of paper it is no longer paper it is ashes.

How is it not the same thing, by your reasoning? Losing a limb is just a lesser variation of the same situation. Your claim was that if one's shape changes, then so must one's genetics.

The ashes are still the paper, just a different form due to the effects of heat upon the subject. Do you believe that toast is no longer bread?

Again different situation, once is a slight alteration, the other is the complete metamorphosis of one thing into an entierly new thing.

No you are saying that in the past The Master has placed his mind into someone else and yet remained a timelord, so by that it would seem that all that makes up a timelord is the mind.

So a timelord is an attribute of a race yet not a race in of itself. But a power a memeber of a race is born with. Similar to a telepath.

If a telepath is turned into a pile of living goop, it could still be a telepath yet no longer a human. Is this basically what you are saying?

So in his 'goop' state you consider him to no longer be a Gallifreyian, yet still a Timelord.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
The ashes are still the paper, just a different form due to the effects of heat upon the subject. Do you believe that toast is no longer bread?

Maybe we should light The Master on fire and see what Eclipso says. ermm

Originally posted by Eclipso
Again different situation, once is a slight alteration, the other is the complete metamorphosis of one thing into an entierly new thing.

No you are saying that in the past The Master has placed his mind into someone else and yet remained a timelord, so by that it would seem that all that makes up a timelord is the mind.

So a timelord is an attribute of a race yet not a race in of itself. But a power a memeber of a race is born with. Similar to a telepath.

If a telepath is turned into a pile of living goop, it could still be a telepath yet no longer a human. Is this basically what you are saying?

So in his 'goop' state you consider him to no longer be a Gallifreyian, yet still a Timelord.

^I think we've actually come up with an explanation here.

You can sure as hell bet that I'd take that crack at my education and intelligence as an insult, what else could it be?

So you wanna refute my scientific knowledge, kiddo? Let's see. 4 years of high school science, 3 courses while at college, and three years of biology, including college courses DURING high school. And there's going to be a hell of a lot more in my future, bio in particular, as science is my favorite subject and is relevant to what I'm studying.

Put short? When I'm talking scientific stuff, I know my shit.

If you were to put a piece of celery into a blender and turn it to mush, would it not be celery anymore because the shape is different? No, because it would still consist of the same cells and contain the same genetic material. If you were to put a carrot and piece of celery in a blender together and turn THAT into mush, would the resuling goo be something new? No, it would simply be celery mush and carrot mush together, as it would be the same as before - celery cells and carrot cells that contain the respective genetic material.

So long as the original cells are still there, it still contains the original genetic material and thus as a result still biologically whatever it was when it started out.

Physiology is determined by genetics. But physiology changing does NOT mean the genes themselves, or cells carrying these genes, change. That's simply ridiculous and I can't imagine anyone who's taken any sort of basic science class thinking that.

As for the Master's body-hopping? Most logical and simplest answer would be that he implanted some of his genetic material into the host. For all we know this could be some ability that Time Lords have that we don't know about.

And Time Lord is a race, not an attribute. It's as I said - you are one or you aren't.

Again, that example is not applicatible, The Master wasn't chopped into bit or mushed, his body underwent a complete metamorphisis.

I liken it to if a person was mutated into a frog, your genetic make up is no longer that of a human, it is of a frog, even if you somehow retian your mental capacity.

Race is determined by your genetic structure, in the movie he no longer possesed the genetic structure of a Gallifreyian, hence he was no longer one.

I don't know who to believe 🤨

Originally posted by Eclipso
Again different situation, once is a slight alteration, the other is the complete metamorphosis of one thing into an entierly new thing.

No you are saying that in the past The Master has placed his mind into someone else and yet remained a timelord, so by that it would seem that all that makes up a timelord is the mind.

So a timelord is an attribute of a race yet not a race in of itself. But a power a memeber of a race is born with. Similar to a telepath.

If a telepath is turned into a pile of living goop, it could still be a telepath yet no longer a human. Is this basically what you are saying?

So in his 'goop' state you consider him to no longer be a Gallifreyian, yet still a Timelord.

No, you are not listening to what I am saying. It is NOT the mind. it is genetic. Long-term time flight in a TARDIS is impossible without a Time Lord's GENETIC component, the symbiotic nucleus.

So once more, when the Master body hops, for whatever reason and by whatever means, he remains genetically a Time Lord. And a Gallifreyan.

Again, this is fact already happened in the series.