Originally posted by Validus
They always say it. They say lots of things.Here's an example.
Superman: "You and I may be equal in power, Princess...." (referring to Wonder Woman)
How many of us believe Superman and Wonder Woman are equal in power when comparing their on panel feats? If the answer is any higher than zero, you're lying just to spite me. 😄
Marvel and Supes are equals, even I, a HUGE superman fanboy(although not enough to turn a deaf ear to reason)will admit that, I have a comic where supes gets MC'ed and who do the writers send to subdue/stalemate him to keep him from killing everyone (literally)? Cpt. marvel, he has his hands full but is succesful in outsmarting the guy who's controlling him and with the aid of wonder woman they are able to preoccupy him and figure out how to release superman from the spell/mc he's under.
even tho a few comics later batman tells supes he's the most powerful being on earth.
Originally posted by badabing
Power is more than strength.
This is Superman comparing himself to Wonder Woman. What else does she have going for her besides that? She sure as hell isn't faster or more durable. She isn't smarter either. Diana's got nothing on Clark and we all know this despite his kind words.
Originally posted by badabing
In a h2h match up, Marvel has proved to be Superman's equal.
First Eclipso fight was a victory for Superman. The second fight in 2004 ended with Billy being choked to death before Shazam showed up after his Kingdom Come style lightning attack failed.
The Superman/Batman fight has an exhausted, weakened Superman going against a fresh Captain Marvel. Even still, when Superman decides to switch with Batman (how smart is it to send Batman against CM anyway) he catches his punch and throws him away.
Crisis Times Five shows CM sucker punching Clark with a lightning punch. Virtue & Vice shows Superman talking to Power Girl when CM flies out of nowhere and KO's him with you guessed it, a charged lightning punch.
They have a short scuffle in Adventures of Superman I believe that goes nowhere. Both had their minds played with.
Power of Shazam is an angry Billy grappling with Superman who maintains an attempt to talk him down. Another go nowhere fight.
Like I said before, these two never square off under the same mindset. Their showings against one another are almost meaningless. Oh yeah, Cap can hang in there but show me a time where he's KO'd Supes without the lightning charged punches and I might agree. Still, CM simply doesn't match Superman when it comes to high level feats.
I only said what i did, because i think BA/CM and Clark are pretty much identical in physical stats. Clark has energy projection, whereas they have none. But thats the only advantage he has over them.
And for the record, all his charged punches do is bypass his biofield, and hit his true durability. Not a weakness, when Superman has his class 100 durability, AND a handy biofield. All the charged punches do is hit him on the actual skin. Like everybody else has to deal with. IE, Thor, Hulk, DD, Mongul, Sentry, etc.
All it does is make him take it like everybody else......Is it that much of a cheat if it challenges his true durability??
And while Superman has the feats, for every major crazy feat of him outclassing all his "peers", ala OWAW, you then have a few JLA titles to put him right back in line.
Originally posted by UniOmni
I only said what i did, because i think BA/CM and Clark are pretty much identical in physical stats. Clark has energy projection, whereas they have none. But thats the only advantage he has over them.And for the record, all his charged punches do is bypass his biofield, and hit his true durability. Not a weakness, when Superman has his class 100 durability, AND a handy biofield. All the charged punches do is hit him on the actual skin. Like everybody else has to deal with. IE, Thor, Hulk, DD, Mongul, Sentry, etc.
All it does is make him take it like everybody else......Is it that much of a cheat if it challenges his true durability??And while Superman has the feats, for every major crazy feat of him outclassing all his "peers", ala OWAW, you then have a few JLA titles to put him right back in line.
His Heat Vision really does not bother them. It's pretty much useless.
Originally posted by UniOmni
And for the record, all his charged punches do is bypass his biofield, and hit his true durability. Not a weakness, when Superman has his class 100 durability, AND a handy biofield. All the charged punches do is hit him on the actual skin. Like everybody else has to deal with. IE, Thor, Hulk, DD, Mongul, Sentry, etc.
All it does is make him take it like everybody else......Is it that much of a cheat if it challenges his true durability??
"Captain Marvel's powers are based in magic. Toe to toe, he has the advantage."
It's not a "cheat". It's a legitimate advantage Cap has over him. That's fair game and thats good but it does nothing to show his supposed equality to Superman on a physical level.
Originally posted by UniOmni
And while Superman has the feats, for every major crazy feat of him outclassing all his "peers", ala OWAW, you then have a few JLA titles to put him right back in line.
True enough. What I'm doing here is comparing a high level Superman to a high level everyone else. When doing that I think it becomes clear that his so-called peers are left in the dust. Company politics? Maybe but theres way too much stuff to just toss out due to politics.
Originally posted by Validus
His true durability INCLUDES the biofield. Magic and kryptonite are the only things that pass through it when Superman has a full tank of solar energy. I go back to the Superman/Batman issue."Captain Marvel's powers are based in magic. Toe to toe, he has the advantage."
It's not a "cheat". It's a legitimate advantage Cap has over him. That's fair game and thats good but it does nothing to show his supposed equality to Superman on a physical level.
True enough. What I'm doing here is comparing a high level Superman to a high level everyone else. When doing that I think it becomes clear that his so-called peers are left in the dust. Company politics? Maybe but theres way too much stuff to just toss due to politics.
All i ever took Batmans line to mean was that since Clark depends on his aura/biofield so much, that to have it voided, would be to take away his key advantage.
And i guess we just see it differently. Clark underneath the biofield is still premiere class 100 in hardiness. I just don't see how losing it can be a true disadvantage, when others have to get by on their skins hardiness, without a neat little aura to take the brunt of the damage. If Superman is still high class 100 without the aura, and actually has to feel the punches from others, and we call it a weakness, then WTF?!!
Thor, Hulk, BA and CM and others have been exploited since day one.
I could see, if without the biofield he was only peak human. Then i could understand.
But he has this uber durability, along with a neat skin tight shield, and when he loses the shield, he's at a vast disadvantage?! Imo, it just got even.
In truth, the original intent of his biofeld was to explain why his costume never got shredded when he's going hypersonic in the atmosphere. His durability underneath it varies by the writer and it has been said that he can mentally turn down his strength and durability to human levels and all the way up to OWAW levels. Still, the effect of magic on Superman is clear enough to know Cap uses it to his advantage.
http://img133.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=6c519_capvesupes2j.jpg
And really, who are we to argue with Captain Marvel? 😛
Cap rules
Originally posted by ValidusThe point is that Cap. Marvel is always knocking out Superman. How many times has Superman knocked out Marvel. Answer: None. Captain Marvel is being penalized for using a lightning charged punch???? How about Superman using his protective aura in his punches ON TOP of the many powers that he posseses (heat vision, etc.). The end of this argument is that Superman himself has said that Cap. Marvel is his physical equal. Cap just does not have the extra powers like heat vision, etc. End of story.
This is Superman comparing himself to Wonder Woman. What else does she have going for her besides that? She sure as hell isn't faster or more durable. She isn't smarter either. Diana's got nothing on Clark and we all know this despite his kind words.Not that I've seen.
First Eclipso fight was a victory for Superman. The second fight in 2004 ended with Billy being choked to death before Shazam showed up after his Kingdom Come style lightning attack failed.
The Superman/Batman fight has an exhausted, weakened Superman going against a fresh Captain Marvel. Even still, when Superman decides to switch with Batman (how smart is it to send Batman against CM anyway) he catches his punch and throws him away.
Crisis Times Five shows CM sucker punching Clark with a lightning punch. Virtue & Vice shows Superman talking to Power Girl when CM flies out of nowhere and KO's him with you guessed it, a charged lightning punch.
They have a short scuffle in Adventures of Superman I believe that goes nowhere. Both had their minds played with.
Power of Shazam is an angry Billy grappling with Superman who maintains an attempt to talk him down. Another go nowhere fight.
Like I said before, these two never square off under the same mindset. Their showings against one another are almost meaningless. Oh yeah, Cap can hang in there but show me a time where he's KO'd Supes without the lightning charged punches and I might agree. Still, CM simply doesn't match Superman when it comes to high level feats.
a not wanting to fight Black Adam (he only punched him to get him off, he didnt want an all out fight) vs an enraged Supes (if you can read the writting on the double spread he says hes goin with no concern for Black Adam)
http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=c87fd_bavssuperman1.jpg
http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=29cf6_bavssuperman2.jpg
http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=c39ea_bavssuperman3.jpg
http://img20.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=55c0f_bavssuperman4.jpg
looks like BA was more than holding his own.
More than likely Black Adam. Both are equally ruthless. Both are more than willing to play dirty.
However while Zod has the edge in superior strength and speed, Black Adam has the experience (Zod technically may have more or equal experience but floating around in the Phantom Zone doesn't really count...) superior fighting skills, superior tactics and magical reinforcement to tilt the scales in his favor.
Originally posted by Validus
They always say it. They say lots of things.Here's an example.
Superman: "You and I may be equal in power, Princess...." (referring to Wonder Woman)
How many of us believe Superman and Wonder Woman are equal in power when comparing their on panel feats? If the answer is any higher than zero, you're lying just to spite me. 😄
You have a point here....Supes has claimed many have been his "toughest battle" yet he has never given that respect to the Eradicator..who put ownage on him to the max way back in ways that would even make Doomsday cry.
Re: Cap rules
Originally posted by kenobi
The point is that Cap. Marvel is always knocking out Superman. How many times has Superman knocked out Marvel. Answer: None. Captain Marvel is being penalized for using a lightning charged punch???? How about Superman using his protective aura in his punches ON TOP of the many powers that he posseses (heat vision, etc.). The end of this argument is that Superman himself has said that Cap. Marvel is his physical equal. Cap just does not have the extra powers like heat vision, etc. End of story.
