Mace Windu vs. NJO Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well it is several months. He also WAS trained by Ben's Force Ghost for the entire time between ANH and ROTJ. And I have personal experince in self-training with swords becuase the wasn't a school where I used to live, but I can take on most people who have been training for years with an experinced teacher.

I'll take you on and kick your ass. 😛 j/k

But, I know you guys care so much about how much training ROTJ Luke got, but you forget that the thread is about NJO Luke, not ROTJ Luke.

Wouldn't that mean that Luke's EVEN more powerful then?

I do remember that this thread is about NJO Luke you dembass, I started this thread.

lol

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I do remember that this thread is about NJO Luke you dembass, I started this thread.

Retard. Read your own title.

That pic is lame

Sure it was.

xotcho.free.fr/ photos/idiot.jpg

That picture is taking it too far Darth Glentract. You don't have to show us you on these forums ya know.

Sorry, I'm thirteen, I don't look like that. That is actually you, I know where you live. I just looked where I never look.

.......

HimoKun
Jace

Registered: Apr 2005
Location: In the place where you never look

oh

Ok, now go on back to the insane asylum.

Originally posted by Fishy
[Okay so he could have learned there, but it couldn't have been much... Because of the time in between the movies and how hard it is to train like that.

ESB to ROTJ is around six month of time. Luke would have been able to pratice at least 4 months there (1 month for constructing his lightsaber, 1 month for the events of Shadows of the Empire)

Take a look at him when he is on Hoth (only hardly managed to force pull his lightsaber out of the snow) and compare that to the duel with Vader. 1 or 2 weeks of training between "I can not pull that lightsaber" Luke and "I can force lift 4 things at once and can force jump 6 meters high" Luke. So much for the force.

And swordfighting. Luke could have been trained 4 month by a master like Obi-Wan. Come on. Four months training guided by a master is quite much training.

Now on that thing you said, its not that Luke pushes Vader on the defense, its that Vader is on the defensive that makes me think he isn't trying. Luke although skilled in the force is no where near Vader in lightsaber skills or force power. Where Vader would have just walked up to that ship and blown the entire thing up Luke had to work.

a)
Vader hadn't fought with lightsabers around ROTJ time for how long ? He had 2 lightsaber duels in 23 years from RotS to ROTJ. One against Obi-Wan and one against Luke...both no "real" pratice since Obi-Wan doesn't want to win (or even give Vader a tough fight) and Luke was a joke in ESB.

b)
Vader did no real fighting from RotS to ROTJ. Come on. He just takes his stormtroopers let them blaster anything away and than walks in to look cool or kill a prisoner here and there while Luke was fighting 4 years long.

Now seriously Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke yes he could have defeated him without killing him but would that have done? Get Palpatine to kill him because Luke wasn't worthy... Luke his skill in that fight although he attacks is worthless. Lets look at it like this

Vader knew that Lukes way to the dark side would have lead over his dead body. He experienced that in RotS when Palpatine asked him to murder Dooku. He might not have wanted to kill or injure Luke but not because fearing the Emperor would kill Luke in this case.
And even that is a poor excuse for losing your hand to an unskilled fighter.

A normal guy can attack a skilled fighter with a sword the skilled fighter should be able to kill him but if he doesn't want to he still has to block and avoid, however would his opinion change and would he want the other to die he should be able to do it.

I can tell you that most swordfighters hate to fight unskilled fighters because an unskilled fighter completly acts unpredictable. If you fight somebody who matches your own skill level you can guess what he would do next. Facing an unskilled fighter with sword in hand and in rage can be

a) like watching somebody do shadow fighting like he had seen it in the movies.
b) like running into a mixer equipped with a sword. Quite hard do develop decent swordsmanship there. I guess that is what happened to Vader. 😉

Just watch that final fight between Vader and Luke when Luke goes mad he just slashes from left to right even before reaching Vader. Vader should have been able to easily stop it.

Then for some reason thats not very clear on screen Vader falls down, personally I just think Vader wanted to block all of Luke's attacks and then tripped because he was walking backwards, its the only explanation I can think of after seeing that fight.

Although i have to admit Luke was better in it then I remembered he still wasn't anywhere near Vader

Originally posted by Fishy
Okay so he could have learned there, but it couldn't have been much... Because of the time in between the movies and how hard it is to train like that.

Now on that thing you said, its not that Luke pushes Vader on the defense, its that Vader is on the defensive that makes me think he isn't trying. Luke although skilled in the force is no where near Vader in lightsaber skills or force power. Where Vader would have just walked up to that ship and blown the entire thing up Luke had to work.

Now seriously Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke yes he could have defeated him without killing him but would that have done? Get Palpatine to kill him because Luke wasn't worthy... Luke his skill in that fight although he attacks is worthless. Lets look at it like this

A normal guy can attack a skilled fighter with a sword the skilled fighter should be able to kill him but if he doesn't want to he still has to block and avoid, however would his opinion change and would he want the other to die he should be able to do it.

Luke his fighting method isn't all that good. He just swings... So ROTJ Luke is not a fighter, he understands what Jedi are about and he is a Jedi in that sense of the word, but is he a fighter? No. Would he have defeated Vader if he was not his son? No. Could Vader have killed him? Yes. Did Vader want to kill him? No.

Luke is a fully trained Jedi Knight, the same level as Obi-Wan was at the end of episode 1, what don't you get? He is an extremely quick learner and he had MOTIVATION to try and get stronger unlike previous jedi.

Vader didn't have a chance to get off of the offensive. Luke was fighting really well and it only took him a few seconds to knock that punk ass on his feet.

You're right that Vader did not want to kill Luke, but do you really think a power hungry guy like Vader would purposely lose to someone? No, or else he would have done that on Cloud City. With the Emperor's help, Vader probably thought he could turn Luke if he defeated him. If Vader lost on purpose to get Luke to turn to the dark side, why was he begging for his life when he lost? Palpatine wanted Luke as his apprentice instead of Vader, so even if Vader won this fight, Palpy wouldn't have killed him. Vader couldn't defeat him, couldn't even get close.

So what if Vader didn't want to kill him. Luke didn't want to kill Vader either and Luke still won big time. If Luke had been trying to kill Vader the entire fight, it would've happened in 10 seconds when he knocked Vader down the stairs. Luke IS stronger than Vader. You're going against what Lucas says, what the movies show, and what the books say.

As for Luke's fighting style, I've already answered this. At the start of the fight he is fighting really well, never missing once and clearly superior to Vader. When he gets angry he trades dexterity for pure strength, that's why Vader still loses because even though Luke has trouble hitting him, when he does it pushes Vader back and weakens him. That's why he falls on the ground breathing hard and barely able to hold his lightsaber.

Luke is a Jedi knight and strong enough to defeat a Sith lord (albeit a weak one). Is he a fighter? Yes. Would he have defeated Vader if he was not his son? Yes. Could Vader have killed him? No. Did Vader want to kill him? No. Did Luke want to kill Vader? No, even less than Vader wanted to kill Luke.