Originally posted by Lazerlike42
How does it end the discussion to say that she had twins? Nobody is debating that she had twins.... the debate is over whether or not Luke and Leia knew that Organa was not her real mother. Neither Luke nor Leia receive one piece of information to lead them to believe that she is not. Obi-wan certainly didn't tell Luke(in the film). It doesn't seem like the Organas told Leia.I did a little research and it seems to support as well as hurt my point. My point is supported because the line "your REAL mother" is in there because in the actual script, Obi-wan tells Luke that Leia had two foster parents. This scene was cut from the movie.
It hurts my point because it has by the pen of GL that Luke knows it before hand. Although, in the same cut scene, Obi-wan also tells Luke that Owen is HIS brother and not Anakin's!
well luke knows he's not an Organa, he's a Skywalker. so she's a skywalker. Thus, she cannot be an Organa, so, the Organa's, whose name Leia has taken, must be her adoptive guardians, as the Lars where his guardians. Obi-wan says you and your sister were hidden. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Organa's must be Leia's guardians who gave her their name to protect her.
Jeez, queeq, I apologize all the times I ever argued that this point was unclear, I was never decided one way or another on this arguement until this day. it took someone being so totally wrong to show me how right everyone with your viewpoint was...
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
no no no. its not about the weapons. its not a physical test. "only what you take with you" means emotional baggage (did I spell that right?). He takes in his combatative nature, the weapons do work as a physical symbol of that, but are not the catalyst for what he sees. Read Joseph Campbell's "Power of Myth" transcripts. He goes into it really well. Changed my whole view on it. Lucas also said a trimmed down version of what Campbell said on his DVD commentary for ESB.So, Luke takes in his combatative nature, which stems from fear and agression, his own fear and aggression manifests as Vader, because that's what Luke sees as aggressive towards him and its what he fears. Luke then cuts down the symbol of fear and aggression, only to have the apparition reveal that his greatest enemy is actually himself.
That's true but Luke only takes the weapons because of his combative (and probably untrusting) nature. The weapon isn't just supposed to be a SYMBOL and nothing more; it is a MANIFESTATION of his inner self.
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
no no no. its not about the weapons. its not a physical test. "only what you take with you" means emotional baggage
Basically what I said: the weapons symbolise or reflect Luke psyche... They SHOW us (hey, it's a movie, it should be visual) what Luke is feeling. He clearly nly feels secure with his weapons. It tried to say the exact same thing, meph, just in other words.
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Jeez, queeq, I apologize all the times I ever argued that this point was unclear, I was never decided one way or another on this arguement until this day. it took someone being so totally wrong to show me how right everyone with your viewpoint was...
😂
best post of the day!! 😂
And look, suddenly we all agree... even Lazer!
Originally posted by Lazerlike42
That's true but Luke only takes the weapons because of his combative (and probably untrusting) nature. The weapon isn't just supposed to be a SYMBOL and nothing more; it is a MANIFESTATION of his inner self.
that's what a physical symbol is, a MANIFESTATION of his combatative nature... but thanks for repeating me anyway...
Originally posted by queeq
Basically what I said: the weapons symbolise or reflect Luke psyche... They SHOW us (hey, it's a movie, it should be visual) what Luke is feeling. He clearly nly feels secure with his weapons. It tried to say the exact same thing, meph, just in other words.
I thought thats what you were saying, I just wasn't sure. After I re-read I realize we were basically saying the same thing! 😄
What I want to happen is to sit Lucas down, have the biggest Star Wars fans sit across from him, and fire questions at him, similiar to what this thread is about. Just answering questions would make fans sit back, finally, and watch the movies and be, for the first time in 28 years............
HAPPY!
What I want to happen is to sit Lucas down, have the biggest Star Wars fans sit across from him, and fire questions at him, similiar to what this thread is about. Just answering questions would make fans sit back, finally, and watch the movies and be, for the first time in 28 years............
Originally posted by darthmaul1
I took the cave as the way of the jedi is knowledge and defence never for attack, and since he took his weapons that's a big temptation to use them, then in his mind out comes vader and he attacks and kills without hesitation and as a result if he does that he will kill himself.
that's what I used to think too until I heard Lucas and Joseph Campbell describe the scene in all its metaphoric detail.
I don't get the big deal about the droids... Owen may not have remembered that particular droid as there are many similar droids, and C-3PO also received gold plating which Owen may not have been familiar with... Also keep in mind that twenty years passed and Owen may not have remembered 3PO even if it still had the same plating.
As far as Obi-Wan, if he said he was familiar with the droids, that would have sparked questioning by Luke as to when and why, and of course Obi-Wan didn't want to address that at that time... He clearly was hiding that truth from Luke then.
Wow, people debating how Luke knows Leia was adopted.
It always seemed obvious to me that it was common knowledge, something they must have discussed at some point after or during ANH and before the Endor conversation.
Not onscreen.
You think Luke and Leia didn't even speak to each other the whole time between ANH and ESB?
We never see Luke construct his green saber, but we know he did.
When you go to watch ROTS, bear in mind that both Luke and Leia are Force sensitive.
Then watch Padmé, and what is happening to her when she delivers Leia.
She is not in the same state when Luke is born.
It clearly leaves a lasting impression on Leia.
As for Ani's saber - another example of Obi being economical with the truth.
Ani didn't want his unborn child to have his saber, any more than "a young Jedi named Darth Vader murdered and betrayed Luke's father."
The Dagobah cave - the beauty of that is, you can view it in many different ways.
It still boils down to one thing - the future is in Luke's hands. If he doesn't make the right choices, the future is BLACK.
It's possibly a lot simpler than people want it to be.
Luke's fear, anger and aggression will ultimately lead him down the same path as his father.
"What's in there?"
"Only what you take with you."
Ultimately, what Luke takes with him is all three of the above.
As has been pointed out, the weapons themselves are merely symbols.
They represent Luke's mindset going into the unknown.
The way I always see it, the lesson Luke learns is definitely put into practice on the second Death Star:
"Your weapons. You won't need them." - Yoda, ESB
And in ROTJ - Luke looks at his father's mechanical hand, then to his own mechanical, black-gloved hand, and realizes how much he is becoming like his father. He makes the decision for which he has spent a lifetime in preparation. Luke steps back and hurls his lightsaber away.
Luke: "Never! I'll never turn to the dark side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."