The Anti-Monitor vs. the Marvel Universe.

Originally posted by Mider
At least i research a broad range of comic Characters from MU, DCU, Chaos!, Top Cow, not just fan boy icons like yourself.

I specialise in Marvel and know the ins and outs of virtually all of the marvel character sfeatured in comics today. I make a point of keeping up with the latest goings on in DC and occassionally purchase Batman. I cant believe ive spent the last few days debating with a child who knows nothing about the featured characters. Move along Mider i dont have time for you. Arent you tired after recess today? Go and have a nap or something.

Whats sad is that youve actually kept up with my posts in multiple threads maybe your a stalker? Or maybe you know that i was right.

Originally posted by Mider
Whats sad is that youve actually kept up with my posts in multiple threads maybe your a stalker? Or maybe you know that i was right.

🙄

Originally posted by Draco69
I really don't have an opinion. Cosmic level characters have never been nor never will be my forte. Too much to remember.

I think that Anti-Monitor would win though. He destroyed entire universes. What's one more?

Wait, wait, what are you talking about. Anti-Monitor would win against whole MU. In Marvel Universe, Living Tribunal or Phoenix alone could take A-M down and I think A-M would easily defeat such as Death, Eternity..., but LT would take him down and Phoenix would take him down. Now whole Marvel Universe without LT or PF would still take A-M down.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Wait, wait, what are you talking about. Anti-Monitor would win against whole MU. In Marvel Universe, Living Tribunal or Phoenix alone could take A-M down and I think A-M would easily defeat such as Death, Eternity..., but LT would take him down and Phoenix would take him down. Now whole Marvel Universe without LT or PF would still take A-M down.

There is also Oblivion, Infinity, Eternity.

Death is not even as strong as Galactus witch is proven when She is humiliated by The In-betweener who is as powerful as Galactus there all multiversal what are you talking about......your saying that not all the multiverse has ord and Chaos or love and hate or death and life......and space.......use logic if you did youd know that they should all be multiversal cause all there concepts should be multiversal as well.

Originally posted by kgkg
Death is multiversal

There is also Oblivion, Infinity, Eternity.

So, I knew that and I still said A-M would take those down and I think A-M would take them down easily, not those four combined, but one after another, actully, maybe also two of them at same time.

<<your saying that not all the multiverse has ord and Chaos or love and hate or death and life......and space.......use logic if you did youd know that they should all be multiversal cause all there concepts should be multiversal as well.>>

no, that's not what we're saying. and the concepts may or may NOT be. perhaps there's a universe that is ruled by chaos, or ruled strictly by order. regardless, what we're saying is that each individual universe has an INCARNATED ASPECT of each (maybe). ie - each individual universe has an eternity, an infinity, (eternity and infinity have been shown to be part of the same thing in one of the warlock issues, btw) order, chaos, etc . . . BUT none of the eternities are MULTIVERSAL beings - they exist throughout the mulitiverse, true, but only as a part of each universe. the CONCEPT MAY be multiversal, but the eternity ASPECT is not. this has been clearly demonstrated by appearances of eternity in 'what' if' universes. only LT and PF are truly mulitversal - ie the LT you see in the what ifs is the SAME LT that appears in our universe. there is truly only one LT. it's been my contention all along that only a being superceding the individual 'universes' (ie - a 'multiversal being'😉 can possibly defeat AM.

we've been having a spot of trouble deciding just who IS multiversal, however.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<your saying that not all the multiverse has ord and Chaos or love and hate or death and life......and space.......use logic if you did youd know that they should all be multiversal cause all there concepts should be multiversal as well.>>

no, that's not what we're saying. and the concepts may or may NOT be. perhaps there's a universe that is ruled by chaos, or ruled strictly by order. regardless, what we're saying is that each individual universe has an INCARNATED ASPECT of each (maybe). ie - each individual universe has an eternity, an infinity, (eternity and infinity have been shown to be part of the same thing in one of the warlock issues, btw) order, chaos, etc . . . BUT none of the eternities are MULTIVERSAL beings - they exist throughout the mulitiverse, true, but only as a part of each universe. the CONCEPT MAY be multiversal, but the eternity ASPECT is not. this has been clearly demonstrated by appearances of eternity in 'what' if' universes. only LT and PF are truly mulitversal - ie the LT you see in the what ifs is the SAME LT that appears in our universe. there is truly only one LT. it's been my contention all along that only a being superceding the individual 'universes' (ie - a 'multiversal being'😉 can possibly defeat AM.

we've been having a spot of trouble deciding just who IS multiversal, however.

With the exception of Phoenix and LT that is Leo who are no doubt multiversal and would both fry AM back to DC

Get ready folks.

In DC continuity, all the Infinite Earths were splintered of from one main Creation by Krona's blasphemous research into its origin. The original world itself was mainly cleaved in twain, a Positive Matter universe centered on Oa, and an anti-Matter Universe centered on Qward. The Monitor and Anti-Monitor were born of this accident as well.

The Anti-Monitor's ability to consume these worlds (as I understand it) arose from their common origin in/before Krona's trespass. By the time he came for the "original" positive universe (the one with the JLA, not the JSA) he had absorbed so many of the splinters that the Monitor was no longer a match for him.

In the Marvel continuity, before time as we understand it, there was an All-in-All mega god who was the only thing/being that there was. It eventually grew bored or something and decided to cease to be. The fracturing of this being's essence gave rise to the multiverse, with all its different cosms, cycles of expansion and collapse, magic realms, and what have you. The Infinity Gems were focal points for the remnants of this being's essence. It is over these worlds that the Living Tribunal holds jurisdiction, whose structure is kept fast by Atleza, and where the Phoenix Force catalyzes cycles of destruction and creation.

These are not part of the same continuum at all.

I do not think that the Anti-Monitor could absorb the MU, because they do not arise from the same prime origin. This would also explain why the IG didn't do anything when Darkseid found it in JLA/Avengers.

The Anti-Monitor may have sufficient raw power at his disposal to lay waste to the a universe by force, but that's not how he was doing it in Crisis. If I had o guess, the LT could simply bar his entry to the Multiverse that is his to protect, or, as he once thretenned when Zom's lock was cut, to destroy a Universe that the AM invaded in order to keep him from spreading his contmination from spreading to others.

Laminator - very logical and well thought out.

I can find no fault in your reasoning.

good post laminator. and i agree. we talked about how tough it is to make this comparison BECAUSE the set ups of the universe are so different. we were supposing a sort of similair set up for the sake of discussion. least i was. due to the set up, the AM would never have been CONCEIVED in the MU. we were talking about AM as he was, just coming over and trying to destroy the MU. one thing about your argument:

<<If I had o guess, the LT could simply bar his entry to the Multiverse that is his to protect, or, as he once thretenned when Zom's lock was cut, to destroy a Universe that the AM invaded in order to keep him from spreading his contmination from spreading to others.>>

we supposed, again for argument's sake, that he already WAS in the mu, so he can't be 'blocked'. and if he WAS in the MU he would obviously be in the multiverse. LT may indeed attempt to destroy the universe AM was in, but would that be enough to destroy a being who had absorbed the energies of 1000s of universes already? and if it wasn't, could LT defeat him in battle if it came to that? i say, yeah, probably, but AM had amassed an ENORMOUS amount of power - arguably more than any character ever has before OR since. allowances need to be made for this kind of discussion or we couldn't HAVE the discussion.

good to hear a new voice though.

So with that kind of power the power of all those universes could even LT or Pheonix defeat such a powerful entity?

That kind of match up? I don't know. I don't know if we can know. The actions of these Cosmic Gods are always constrained by needing to tell a story that's not just a bunch of giant statues gesturing at one another and planets blowing away in the background.

Why the heck did AM have to fool around with dweebs like Psymon to get the job done? And what was up with all the machines (shades of Galactus there)? To give the other characters something to do besides get overrun by wraiths. If his power were used to the extent his trash talk would have suggested, Crisis would have only taken two issues, tops.

Same with the LT, he usually just threatens or dismisses. If I'm not mistaken, we've only ever seen the hooded face once (Infinity Watch #1), and that time Warlock backed down.

It quickly becomes a question of "How many angels can dnce on the head of a pin?" or "Which line has more infinite points on it?"

Originally posted by Mider
So with that kind of power the power of all those universes could even LT or Pheonix defeat such a powerful entity?

In marvel Clestial / eternity / Infinity all posses infite power it's more about ranking and power over domain.

Multiverse is in LT's domain , if Anti-montor comes he will lose. Why

LT has power over the Multiverse.

Who has surpases LT in power?
Pre-rec Beyonder - He was from beyond , and in his realm he was all he can do what he wants.
Thanos with HOTU - He was god no body was seen to challege the power he had obtain which made him GOD.

LT has defeat the artifact called IG:

IG defeated all cosmic being that rule over ( Universe , and beyond)

To be clear, we never saw the LT match power for power against the Gauntlet. He merely decreed that none of the residents of his jurisdiction would be able to wield them simultaneously.

LT was uncertain as to weather he could take Adam by force.

Anyone with the HOTU could stop Anti-Monitor.

Why do i say anything about LT to you guys He is the ultimate being witch is stupid even DC allows its most powerful entities to be in trouble but not Marvel to chicken i guess LT's highest power is to destroy a universe if He can absorb it i guess He would be as powerful as Anti-Monitor but there are entities in DC even greater then Anti-Monitor.

Didn't Thanos with the THOTU kick LT's a$$? LT has been in trouble before. Like I said, anyone with THOTU will b!tch slap the Anti-Monitor. LT is not the highest power in Marvel. TOAA is the highest power in Marvel. Not to be confused with the Celestial TOAA.

Originally posted by Mider
Why do i say anything about LT to you guys He is the ultimate being witch is stupid even DC allows its most powerful entities to be in trouble but not Marvel to chicken i guess LT's highest power is to destroy a universe if He can absorb it i guess He would be as powerful as Anti-Monitor but there are entities in DC even greater then Anti-Monitor.

Thanos with HOTU : said LT is highest Force , being in MU
Many other multiversal forces and entities have accepted this fact.

LT is guardian of Marvel destroying universe, etc has no meaning for him.

Time, Realms and other shit are beyond him