Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Boring teams Vs boring teams. Most of the top teams only have standout players, not necessarily great whole teams, and even then the standouts are Shevchenko and the like. Overrated. Very good, but overrated. People place him at Henry level, he's not. He's no Ronaldinho or Riquelme.although i cant find the statistics, im pretty sure Shevchenko has scored more than Henry at this level, and probably most levels... doesnt graft as much, but hes a striker, if the balls in the net he's done his job.
Juventus WERE lucky to get this far, due to Werder Bremen. AC Milan got lucky against Lyon, again (PSV whooped them last year). Both of the best Italian teams got COMPLETELY out played in both legs. Inter got the same treatment.I'm not making this stuff up.
i know you're not, but wins are wins no matter how you look at them... Juve, Madrid and Inter scored more and conceded less than their opponents.. didnt play as well but won... If Italian teams are overrated surely they should be losing those games?
John Jensen could produce screamers that save games. Would I play him? No.I think Jarosik proved anyone can produce screamers that save games this past week, but i wasnt arguing that... Ibrahimovic is a good player, proven at every level whether you care to admit it or not.
Ajax? Best teams? Ajax fell from grace years ago. He obviously can't do it against the best teams. Couldn't even do it against Bremen.didnt Ibrahimovic leave Ajax years ago now? he was a great player, is off form now, but when on-form is still a great player. Pavel Nedved as well... although you have to remember he's 33 now, he's probably 'overrated' because people remember how quality he was, he's not that good now... but he's still a good player
if either of these players wore Arsenal shirts im sure you'd be arguing the other side of the coin. [/B]
Originally posted by Df02
although i cant find the statistics, im pretty sure Shevchenko has scored more than Henry at this level, and probably most levels... doesnt graft as much, but hes a striker, if the balls in the net he's done his job.
I can agree to that, he's good at his job. Which is why rating him very well for it ISN'T overrating him. However, the man misses stupid chances more than the other top forwards and people act like he's some Ronaldinho-esque player.
Originally posted by Df02
i know you're not, but wins are wins no matter how you look at them... Juve, Madrid and Inter scored more and conceded less than their opponents.. didnt play as well but won... If Italian teams are overrated surely they should be losing those games?
Not really, Greece won the European Cup. If they were not worthy of doing so (they weren't), wouldn't they have lost? Not necessarily.
Wins don't mean you're a good team. The way you win, does.
Originally posted by Df02
I think Jarosik proved anyone can produce screamers that save games this past week, but i wasnt arguing that... Ibrahimovic is a good player, proven at every level whether you care to admit it or not.
Yeah, good. Not amazing, not world best level.
Originally posted by Df02
didnt Ibrahimovic leave Ajax years ago now? he was a great player, is off form now, but when on-form is still a great player. Pavel Nedved as well... although you have to remember he's 33 now, he's probably 'overrated' because people remember how quality he was, he's not that good now... but he's still a good playerif either of these players wore Arsenal shirts im sure you'd be arguing the other side of the coin.
Not necessarily. Every time players from Serie A play shit, it's "off form". If you're off form for a long time, the excuses stop. Like Del Piero or Raul. They've been off form for years, they're not still great.
Furthermore, I'd rather not have Nedved or Ibrahimovic at Arsenal, I prefer the players they have. I'd not trade Fabregas for Viera. The only thing I'd do is POSSIBLY bring in a better finisher to go with Henry. Fabregas can't always get it done as he should, nor can Hleb. That's all I'd do.
Arsenal were always great but they were always a team with more stand outs. Nowadays it's harder to pick a man of the match because they're a better TEAM.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I can agree to that, he's good at his job. Which is why rating him very well for it ISN'T overrating him. However, the man misses stupid chances more than the other top forwards and people act like he's some Ronaldinho-esque player.i never have... he's one of the worlds best strikers because he has one of the worlds best scoring records, no other reason, but i think that pretty much speaks for itself... it's like the commentators were saying, Shevchenko had a quiet game but all of a sudden he can pop up and get a hat-trick... and against Lyon he hit both posts, scored and went close as well.
Not really, Greece won the European Cup. If they were not worthy of doing so (they weren't), wouldn't they have lost? Not necessarily.Wins don't mean you're a good team. The way you win, does.
one or two games won against the run of play can be lucky... enough to win a competition? enough to progress to the quater finals of the Champions League? i dont think that can be contributed to luck personally.
Yeah, good. Not amazing, not world best level.Well personally i don't think you can look past Henry for the striking position and then Attacking Midfielders. Ibrahimovic is a great player, people become overrated for reasons, sure i wouldnt say atm he's as good as Henry or Ronaldinho or Riquelme, but he's a great player with a great history of quality.
Not necessarily. Every time players from Serie A play shit, it's "off form". If you're off form for a long time, the excuses stop. Like Del Piero or Raul. They've been off form for years, they're not still great.Del Piero is one of Juve's top scorers still, which isnt really saying anything because they arent exactly goal machines. Raul i dont really rate.
Furthermore, I'd rather not have Nedved or Ibrahimovic at Arsenal, I prefer the players they have. I'd not trade Fabregas for Viera. The only thing I'd do is POSSIBLY bring in a better finisher to go with Henry. Fabregas can't always get it done as he should, nor can Hleb. That's all I'd do.id put Nedved in the Arsenal squad, at his age i wouldnt put him in the team every week... but he's good enough to play for them.
Fabregas is the future, Viera is the past.. most of the Juve team are the past now.
Arsenal were always great but they were always a team with more stand outs. Nowadays it's harder to pick a man of the match because they're a better TEAM.Arsenal play the game well... i dont think they have particularly exceptional players past Henry, but they play the game exceptionally well... which is more down to Wenger than to the team
-AC [/B]
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Then it comes down to how you believe these Italian teams got to where they did.You don't attribute it to luck, I do. Wins are wins, but they don't mean you're a good team.
I'm not saying Serie A has not good players in it, I'm just saying people go over the top.
-AC
Theres a saying for that and that is, "The Ball Is Round" meaning any game can go either way for both teams.
Originally posted by El_NINO
Theres a saying for that and that is, "The Ball Is Round" meaning any game can go either way for both teams.
but what im saying is, can it really be attributed to luck for Juventus to progress as far as they did, be soo far ahead in their league and have won the CL etc on numerous ocassions?
Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Here's my prediction for the Juve - Arsenal game tonight:4 - 0
(Juventus win 4-2 on aggregate)
You can quote me on that, you shmoes.
Sweet, I was right on the money again.
Originally posted by El_NINO
ummm... ok...Im not sure why you chose to say that?
I think it has something to do with the drfiting solar plexus.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because you put forth the Jimmy-from-South-Park level analogy of "The ball is round, so any team can win."No, not every team has a chance of winning every game. Stupid.
-AC
Wow man cool your PMS for a sec.
At least im realistic and dont think everyteam and player is overrated except for the team I like.
Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
If bloody Arsenal end up scuffing their way to winning the whole damn cup and Spurs finish 4th (thus giving Arsenal the final Champions League spot), then I will kick myself in the nuts 5 times.
I hope that's how it happens, just so I can relentlessly abuse a Spurs fan I know.
Originally posted by El_NINO
Wow man cool your PMS for a sec.At least im realistic and dont think everyteam and player is overrated except for the team I like.
No PMS involved. You made a really dumb analogy. Is that what you do? Say something stupid then accuse anyone replying of PMSing? Hahaha.
You're not realistic, that's the point. "The ball is round...so any game can go any way for either team." Yes, totally realistic.
Second, I don't think every team is overrated except for the one I like. I've spoke of Italian league teams. I like Chelsea, but they're overrated.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No PMS involved. You made a really dumb analogy. Is that what you do? Say something stupid then accuse anyone replying of PMSing? Hahaha.You're not realistic, that's the point. "The ball is round...so any game can go any way for either team." Yes, totally realistic.
Second, I don't think every team is overrated except for the one I like. I've spoke of Italian league teams. I like Chelsea, but they're overrated.
-AC
alright, during the build up to Arsenal vs Juventus who was considered the underdog... Arsenal... and who won?