Football (Soccer)

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I think you should also exclude Steven Gerrard from that as he is brilliant, maybe not at present but he will be again.

-AC

You fail to realise that it's just because he doesn't have nostalgia and a rose-tint on his side 'at present'.

If England's media and, as a result, fans, stopped salivating over certain players, the team would do a lot better.

Either way, it couldn't really do worse. Go out a round earlier, tragedy.

I think Andy Gray is to blame for it. He over-eggs everything the man does to suspicious levels.

No wonder he's always telling him to 'take a boo'.

gerrard is quality. i prefer him to lampard.

Originally posted by Deano
gerrard is quality. i prefer him to lampard.

Most seem to, though the facts suggest it's a misguided choice.

The actual stats, untainted by 'hype'.

Here's my team of bores:

----------------------Robinson (Do one, you lot!)----

Richards--------Ferdinand----King------------Cole

------------------------Hargreaves------------------

Lennon----------------Gerrard--------------Cole---

-----------------------Rooney------------------------

-----------------------Owen-------------------------

Before each game, I'd tell the midfield to run around the pitch in different directions, and pass the ball to one of their team-mates. Then, after doing that a few times, they should try to score a goal. After that? Celebrations.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Most seem to, though the facts suggest it's a misguided choice.

The actual stats, untainted by 'hype'.

its not hype. he is just better then lampard imo.

lampard appears to be better because he is surrounded by better players who make him look good, and plus he is in a system that helps him greatly.

gerrard spends most the season on the left or right of midfield

Originally posted by Deano
its not hype. he is just better then lampard imo.

Why, though? What actual aspect of football does he have more success in than Lampard?

Originally posted by Deano

lampard appears to be better

Agreed.

Originally posted by Deano

because he is surrounded by better players who make him look good, and plus he is in a system that helps him greatly.

BS. They both play shit for England, because England are shit. The whole myth of Gerrard is that he wins games alone, yet now he needs a complimentary system. He doesn't play to a system anyway, he goes where he wants to go.

Originally posted by Deano

gerrard spends most the season on the left or right of midfield

So what? He had his best spell, in the CL winning season, playing on the right. Benitez plays him there for a reason.

Spurs are a good team, right? Right? Yeah...

Originally posted by Deano
its not hype. he is just better then lampard imo.

Not according to actual, factual stats.

-AC

The quality of players is not purely in their stats. Gerrard is better defensively than Lampard and, from what I've seen, he has more of a presence on the field. Lampard scores more goalsUltimately, they both deserve starting jobs on team England because they are the two best midfielders in England.

Not the point.

When you're discussing things outside of preference and who you like to watch, stats matter, and Lampard out-classes Gerrard in most areas if not all.

-AC

Gerrard is better defensively and I find him to be more versatile. Lampard is a better scorer, but Gerrard is no slouch and in combination with his leadership and defense he is equally as good imo.

Originally posted by Nellinator
The quality of players is not purely in their stats.

It is, though, it actually is. Different players work differently together, and there are other intangibles, but on the whole, football is kicking a ball. The stats measure the success of doing so. Anything else is a spectre.

Originally posted by Nellinator

Gerrard is better defensively than Lampard

Measured by stats. Do you have them?

Originally posted by Nellinator

and, from what I've seen, he has more of a presence on the field.

Tell me exactly what that means.

Originally posted by Nellinator

Lampard scores more goalsUltimately, they both deserve starting jobs on team England because they are the two best midfielders in England.

Probably the two best English midfielders; not the two best midfielders in England.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Spurs are a good team, right? Right? Yeah...

I feel a little tiny bit sad for you.

The thing is, people just assume Gerrard is some morale machine, why?

How do you know it's not the LFC kit manager that spurs them on?

-AC

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I feel a little tiny bit sad for you.

Please do.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The thing is, people just assume Gerrard is some morale machine, why?

How do you know it's not the LFC kit manager that spurs them on?

You said "spurs".

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
It is, though, it actually is. Different players work differently together, and there are other intangibles, but on the whole, football is kicking a ball. The stats measure the success of doing so. Anything else is a spectre.

Measured by stats. Do you have them?

Tell me exactly what that means.

Probably the two best English midfielders; not the two best midfielders in England.

I feel a little tiny bit sad for you.

Now, I'm not completely familiar with how the form of players is rated, but I was not aware that they statistically measure defense other than tackles which is not always the best indicator of defense.

Gerrard apparently has leadership skills.

Yes, my bad... Probably the two best midfielders for England.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Are you saying offense is the most important thing for every player?

What?

..where?

Originally posted by Nellinator

Now, I'm not completely familiar with how the form of players is rated, but I was not aware that they statistically measure defense other than tackles which is not always the best indicator of defense.

Go on then. What would it be?

Taking a boo?

Depends on what you mean by a spectre because you said that scoring is measured by stats and that stats are all that is important. I'm not entirely sure what stats they all take...

Well, the tackles that they make are important, the part of the field they are making their tackles, who they are making their tackles on, clearing headers, pass interceptions, forcing opponents to less advantageous positions, etc... I also consider not turning the ball over in the midfield as a part of defense.

Originally posted by Nellinator

Well, the tackles that they make are important, the part of the field they are making their tackles, who they are making their tackles on, clearing headers, pass interceptions, forcing opponents to less advantageous positions, etc... I also consider not turning the ball over in the midfield as a part of defense.

All of those things are actual events; they can be recorded and measured.

I don't like when people rate on things that are clearly hype-based, because there is no actual event against which to posit it. That always happens with overrated players, of which Gerrard is one.

It basically comes down to 'he's just better'.

Like his single-handed CL winning performance, which, lest we forget, didn't actually happen (despite it now being 'common knowledge'😉.

But they aren't measured, so it becomes an observation thing. Gerrard is generally held as being better defensively, I can't say for sure as of the moment, but by observation I have seen that Gerrard does most of the previously mentioned things better than Lampard. Also, Lampard may score more goals, but Gerrard is no slouch in the scoring department either.

That said, do you know where I can find defensive stats for the Premier league?

Also, I was thinking about what it would be like if Gerrard was right back for England. He can play there and I think that it would promote offense from that position while opening the midfield to other talents.