Football (Soccer)

I watched the Scotland game and the refereeing was pathetic, Scotland's goal was offside, they should have gotten a penalty for hand ball and Italy´s second was never on this planet a free kick for Italy, to name a few odd decisions.

Scotland were attempting to play like Arsenal, short quick passes, a good start on the development ladder. But like Arsenal in Europe they failed.

And what a surprise, Isreal beat Russia 2:1 I never expected that. I wonder if they will sack Mclaren if England luckyily qualify, because lets face it, it would be luck.

wow what a weird night, Croatia is loosing 2:0 to Rep Macedonia now as well.

What an interesting competition the finals will be, Germany are looking favorites to me.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hahaha.

England saved by Israel. Truly the bottom of the barrel.

-AC

saved in a way yes.

i know russia would find it tough in israel, just like england did. neither got any points.

Read what you are saying.

England found it TOUGH against Israel. You cannot say that and then carry this pretense that England are a good/great team.

Saved in a way? The irony is, the commentators of the Israel/Russia game sounded more excited that I've ever heard English commentators on an England game.

-AC

I think your a bit to anti England AC. Just because you chose to support the best team in the world (Brazil), so you have more chance of celebrating victories, no need to pick on true fans who actually support their country with passion. Ok England arn´t what everyone in the media etc makes them out to be, but who cares.

England arn´t the only team who were struggling to qualify, only Germany in group D were overwhelming in their qualification.

The days of the whipping boys, small teams who are expected to get stuffed are over.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
I think your a bit to anti England AC. Just because you chose to support the best team in the world (Brazil), so you have more chance of celebrating victories, no need to pick on true fans who actually support their country with passion. Ok England arn´t what everyone in the media etc makes them out to be, but who cares.

I've supported Brazil since U.S.A. '94, during the tournament, when I had no idea that they would win. They played, and continue to play, the football I enjoy the most.

You are not supporting your "country", you are supporting 11 men who happen to be from England. It's just football, it's not war.

I love this country no less because I don't support it's football representatives. That say, I don't "love" any country inherently, there's no point.

So going all patriotic just makes you look silly, because it's a null and void argument.

I'm not anti-England. I dislike the football team and most of it's fans and the way they react.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
England arn´t the only team who were struggling to qualify, only Germany in group D were overwhelming in their qualification.

But Germany are a better team, as proven by their success and greater quality of players. My point is that England are rated because people feel they have to, you proved that. You are supporting them unquestionably because they are from here.

Not that I'd ever expect a patriot to ever admit such a thing.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
The days of the whipping boys, small teams who are expected to get stuffed are over.

The fact is, that quite clearly reveals you view England as whipping boys. They're failures. Always have been.

-AC

wow your more confused than me, and thats saying something.

i do think that teams that were seen as the poorer teams arent so bad anymore, which was prroved by greece when they won the euro champs.

i also feel theres nothing wrong with supporting your country, its just when people are so supportive they're blinded as to just how good or not as good as they are.

about germany, them and the czech republic have the same points, the only team to have won their group by at least a 5 points is.... greece.

Greece winning the European Championship was like Liverpool winning the C.L., they were nowhere near the best team in it.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
wow your more confused than me, and thats saying something.

How did you figure that out?

Is this just because you're shell-shocked by the fact that you don't have to support a country you were born in?

-AC

what does being the best team matter anymore? they were the most consistant team in the tournament, because they won. liverpool may not have been the best team in teh champions league, but they must have played consistant because they also won. whether its through luck or just skillfull play, its what football is all about. if only teh best team won every year what would be the point? no-one would want to win.

its like snooker back in the 80's and nineties, it was steve davis who won everything, or stephen hendry. snooker has grown in popularity when the influx of new players came in and there were more different winners to each tournament.

simply said, it doesnt matter who is the BEST team, its who wins.

Originally posted by vandalworks
what does being the best team matter anymore? they were the most consistant team in the tournament, because they won. liverpool may not have been the best team in teh champions league, but they must have played consistant because they also won. whether its through luck or just skillfull play, its what football is all about. if only teh best team won every year what would be the point? no-one would want to win.

its like snooker back in the 80's and nineties, it was steve davis who won everything, or stephen hendry. snooker has grown in popularity when the influx of new players came in and there were more different winners to each tournament.

simply said, it doesnt matter who is the BEST team, its who wins.

It matters because people are constantly confusing the two.

The sooner people accept that being victorious does not make you the best, and not winning doesn't make you inferior in such a way, then we can start moving on with common sense.

You do have a point though, which is why it puzzles me that the only thing consistent about teams like England or Liverpool are the fan reactions or the resulting mediocrity. Fans consistently expect them to win and they consistently do not.

-AC

expectation. thats the fans biggest enemy. same with the media. they overhype every time the euros or world cup comes along and same old result.

i know what you mean with who plays best and who wins, but if the bet team doent win, how can they be called the best team in a tournement? over one game yes, because theres elements such as refereeing and luck, but over the whole course of a tourney these elemenst normally balance out. you could say about who plays the most attractive football, i mean brazil are fantastic to watch because their attacking is fantastic, but their defence isnt the best in the world.

Originally posted by vandalworks
expectation. thats the fans biggest enemy. same with the media. they overhype every time the euros or world cup comes along and same old result.

That's not expectations. If anything, you should EXPECT the same old result, as there is no reason to believe otherwise.

Originally posted by vandalworks
i know what you mean with who plays best and who wins, but if the bet team doent win, how can they be called the best team in a tournement? over one game yes, because theres elements such as refereeing and luck, but over the whole course of a tourney these elemenst normally balance out. you could say about who plays the most attractive football, i mean brazil are fantastic to watch because their attacking is fantastic, but their defence isnt the best in the world.

It's harder in tourneys because not every team plays each other, so I guess it comes down to opinion really, who YOU think deserved to win based on majority showings.

In the league is what I'm referring to mostly, or even England, who even against shit teams, give their fans anxiety. England should not be going into games against Israel saying "Yeah, we knew it'd be a challenge.". Brazil wouldn't be. Every player and manager tries to be respectful to the other side, sure, but Brazil wouldn't go to Israel expecting a fight.

-AC

"Brazil wouldn't go to Israel expecting a fight"

what does that mean? that brazil are too far up themselves to think israel mite play well and they dont need to make an effort?

if a team think doesnt give respect to another side they should be ashamed of themselves.

Originally posted by vandalworks
"Brazil wouldn't go to Israel expecting a fight"

what does that mean? that brazil are too far up themselves to think israel mite play well and they dont need to make an effort?

if a team think doesnt give respect to another side they should be ashamed of themselves.

I'll give you £10 or whatever currency is applicable if you can explain how you got that out of my post, despite the fact that I said this:

"Every player and manager tries to be respectful to the other side, sure, but Brazil wouldn't go to Israel expecting a fight.".

Arsenal wouldn't go to Port Vale and expect a challenge as much as they would playing Barca, for example, simply because it's needless to do so.

Nobody said anything about not making effort, but everything about knowing who is and who isn't better than you. England going to Israel and expecting a hard fought match means there is something to be said about the quality of their side. I'm not suggesting upsets are impossible, I am saying you cannot play as if every team has a good chance to beat you, that's stupid.

-AC

read it yourself and you'll see why i got this. if you need me to explain how i got it then you should keep that tenner and use it to pay for some education.

it doesnt matter if you feel you're ten times better or ten times worse than your opponent, you always expect a fight. you may get it you may not, every player has pride and want to win, doesnt matter if you're playing san marino or argentina. i bet you could say that to brazil and they'd say the same thing, no matter who you play, you expect a fight.

Originally posted by vandalworks
read it yourself and you'll see why i got this. if you need me to explain how i got it then you should keep that tenner and use it to pay for some education.

I see how, you got it by being presumptuous and quite stupid. What you should have done is read it properly and used some common sense.

Originally posted by vandalworks
it doesnt matter if you feel you're ten times better or ten times worse than your opponent, you always expect a fight. you may get it you may not, every player has pride and want to win, doesnt matter if you're playing san marino or argentina. i bet you could say that to brazil and they'd say the same thing, no matter who you play, you expect a fight.

There's a difference between expecting players to be enthusiastic and give it effort, and actually expecting that effort to give you a challenge.

In an ideal world where it rains lemonade and everyone is as good as one another, your scenario would be acceptable. The point is, England are shit, and they think that by saying "We expected a fight." they are just being respectful. The point is, teams would give them a fight that shouldn't be, but England are that shit that they are expecting trouble from shit teams.

Brazil, Argentina or whoever may openly admit they respect other teams, and they should, but to expect challenges against teams like Israel is stupidness. You are saying that because you know England are shit, and you're trying to soften the blow of admitting it.

I'm a veteran when it comes to Tekken, and whilst I accept that upsets can occur, I don't go into my matches thinking that someone who is relatively shit at the game is going to beat me, because I EXPECT a win. England should, and the fact that they now aren't is a testament to their shitness. Michael Owen said it would be a disappointment if they don't put seven goals past Azerbaijan, and he's right, they're nobodies. They should be winning definitely, but they aren't, cos they're shit.

Everyone suffers upsets, but it's the fact that every one of England's losses to shit teams are no longer considered upsets but acceptable losses, that YOU should focus on.

Bottom line; you HONESTLY expect a legitimate threat if you're a shit team.

-AC

i KNOW england are shit, and i've never said otherwise, but even top teams would expect a challange from teams like israel because thats international football. that team may only have one or two decent players, but sometimes thats enough.

what if england or another team beat brazil? would you still consider them the best in the world?

Originally posted by vandalworks
i KNOW england are shit, and i've never said otherwise, but even top teams would expect a challange from teams like israel because thats international football. that team may only have one or two decent players, but sometimes thats enough.

what if england or another team beat brazil? would you still consider them the best in the world?

No, you expect them to make an EFFORT. You are confusing teams making an effort with teams giving the OPPOSING team a challenge.

Israel, or any team, make the effort. Leyton Orient would make the effort against Arsenal or Barca, but they wouldn't give them a challenge.

If England beat Brazil I'd consider it an upset, I don't go by "Team A beats Team B, so if Team B are the best, Team A must now be.". I don't think Brazil are the current best in the world ANYWAY, I consider Argentina to be, who knows what Brazil's current form is? Brazil once lost to China, it wasn't THAT long ago either.

My point is, upsets can happen whether the team is playing well or not, and that was one. Brazil were not CHALLENGED in play, they dominated the play as the should have. Argentina dominated whoever they played, Germany dominated Cyprus. They SHOULD have.

England stopped dominating teams they should, regularly.

-AC

i'm not getting them confused, i'm simply saying that any team that makes this effort can be a potential challange. doesnt matter if the match is an upset or not, in international football any team can beat any team. its normally being over confident and thinking you're going to be dominant that gets you into trouble.

another of englands faults in my opinion. media says they should beat a team and expect a a 6-0 win. what happens? they squeeze a 2-0 win out of a match. if they expect a team to put up one hell of a fight and as a potential upset, you'll be sharper and much more concentrated on them.