Football (Soccer)

Originally posted by vandalworks
i'm not getting them confused, i'm simply saying that any team that makes this effort can be a potential challange. doesnt matter if the match is an upset or not, in international football any team can beat any team. its normally being over confident and thinking you're going to be dominant that gets you into trouble.

You really are confused.

Potential challenged? Andorra do not have any potential anything. If England went there expecting a fight then they are idiots. There are times when respect goes too far. Going there and performing party pieces mid-game, fair enough, but going there expecting a comfortable game and win is not a bad thing when you are playing an obviously shit team.

You cannot go to games and ACCOUNT for upsets, that's why they are upsets.

Originally posted by vandalworks
another of englands faults in my opinion. media says they should beat a team and expect a a 6-0 win. what happens? they squeeze a 2-0 win out of a match. if they expect a team to put up one hell of a fight and as a potential upset, you'll be sharper and much more concentrated on them.

Yes, the difference is, England are too shit to do that anyway. That's precisely the problem, expecting ANY win is a bit of an ask for England.

If England went up against Andorra, people would genuinely feel more worry than they should. Brazil? Yes, now you see my point.

-AC

Brazil would have a fight in Israel as well, due to the fact that teams which were previously amateur class have now vastly improved.

for example England beat Turkey 8:0 a couple of times in the 80´s, and it was expected. Today you would expect a close match, and yes Brazil great mega Brazil just managed to beat turkey in the semi final 2002 1:0. I remember the game and it was close only Ronaldo´s brilliant goal won the game.

This example proves that minor teams have through better coaching, a more open market which hs foriegn players from "weeker" countries playing at tops teams (eg. Hleb=Belarus= Arsenal🙂)

So this PROVES that these teams have VASTLY improved, so England having problems and still coming through is Normal imo.

Even Brazil are having problems 0:0 against Columbia, 1:1 against Peru, are they crap!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZKIhNs-Q08
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/67aa315a

Originally posted by Bicnarok
Brazil would have a fight in Israel as well, due to the fact that teams which were previously amateur class have now vastly improved.

But we both know you are just saying that because now you're slightly miffed and the patriot in you is coming out.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
for example England beat Turkey 8:0 a couple of times in the 80´s, and it was expected.

That's an irrelevant comment, we're not discussing the 80s.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
Today you would expect a close match, and yes Brazil great mega Brazil just managed to beat turkey in the semi final 2002 1:0. I remember the game and it was close only Ronaldo´s brilliant goal won the game.

So? Brazil outplayed them. My point wasn't about scorelines, it was about what you expect as a result in general. You don't go to games and account for upsets.

England have lost to many worse teams, way more consistently, way more recently. Let's not start comparing England to Brazil just because you're in "Raaargh! EN-GER-LERND!" mode.

It's precisely that kneejerk reaction that makes England fans kind of stupid.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
This example proves that minor teams have through better coaching, a more open market which hs foriegn players from "weeker" countries playing at tops teams (eg. Hleb=Belarus= Arsenal🙂)

That doesn't pertain to international football, though. Belarus are shit, like Togo, who have Adebayor.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
So this PROVES that these teams have VASTLY improved, so England having problems and still coming through is Normal imo.

The excuses will never end. Brazil got knocked out by France because they didn't play well enough in that tournament to advance. End of story.

Why can't you just admit that it has nothing so much to do with teams getting better, as England just becoming increasingly shit?

Originally posted by Bicnarok
Even Brazil are having problems 0:0 against Columbia, 1:1 against Peru, are they crap!!

They're on less than good form, what do you want me to tell you? The fact is, Brazil have "forms", England have consistent shitness. When they win, they're somehow great, when they lose there's an excuse.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZKIhNs-Q08
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/67aa315a

Yes?

-AC

england are#nt that shit. they've beaten russia and israel at home scoring 6 goals, 3 in each. comfortable wins. 3-0 against estonia also at home, 3 3-0 wins in a row isnt shit team. 2 years ago they beat argentina 3-2, which wasnt long after losing to northen island 1-0.

overrated team yes, but i'm starting to sense some anit-patriotism.

Originally posted by vandalworks
england are#nt that shit. they've beaten russia and israel at home scoring 6 goals, 3 in each. comfortable wins. 3-0 against estonia also at home, 3 3-0 wins in a row isnt shit team. 2 years ago they beat argentina 3-2, which wasnt long after losing to northen island 1-0.

overrated team yes, but i'm starting to sense some anit-patriotism.

I have no problems admitting I am anti-patriotism. Patriotism is disgusting, you cannot help where you are born, so there is absolutely no point being proud in it for no reason. I love London because I have grown to love it, not out of some sense of birth obligation.

That, however, has no bearing on my opinion of the English football team. I dislike them cos they are shit, I dislike most of their fans because they tend to be reactionary morons who use excuse after excuse, and then want to moan when anybody brings up home truths.

England ARE that shit. Beaten Russia, lost to Russia. Beaten Israel at HOME scoring six goals? Big deal, so they should. Estonia? Who gives a shit? You're still clinging to a win over Argentina when they lost to Northern Ireland, that's how pathetic it gets.

They're overrated by saying they aren't shit. If it's not the manager, it's the foreigners. If it's not the foreigners it's people not backing the side. When will people just admit it's the team? They're shit, they can't play consistently well together, they are born quarter-finalists and will remain so until they prove me wrong. I do not rule out that possibility because in the unlikely even they do, it will make living in this country slightly less unbearable.

It's all too easy and cowardly for you to dismiss all this as some anti-English rant, but you know it to be true and so does everyone else with a shred of sense.

The point is, there are many things I love about this country, which is precisely why I have a distaste for everyone who is putting out the image that as a country, our hopes and dreams amount to nothing more than supporting a team of failures and getting pissed off at anyone who doesn't agree, whilst putting pull-out posters from The Sun in the window of their white van.

-AC

yes but you're not getting at what i'm saying. you're saying england football team are shit. i disagree.

they're decidedly average with a decent history that was 40 years ago. thats all i see about england. but you maintain they're shit. whats your definition of shit? if england are shit, then what does that make the faroe islands? cancer?

if england fans want to overhype and put football as the most important thing in their life, then let them be idiotic and leave them do it. what does it matter to the rest of us? why do you need to feel you have to be so vocal about it?

why choose to support brazil? apparantly you knew nothing about them when you decided to support them.... yes brazil, one of the most well known countries in fotball history. you're not, dare i say *gulps* a glory supporter? i dont think you are, you cant be that stupid. i just dont understand what is bordering on hatred for a simple football team.

Originally posted by vandalworks
yes but you're not getting at what i'm saying. you're saying england football team are shit. i disagree.

Why? Why ignore every piece of evidence to the contrary? Are victories over Turkey and Israel enough for you?

Originally posted by vandalworks
they're decidedly average with a decent history that was 40 years ago. thats all i see about england. but you maintain they're shit. whats your definition of shit? if england are shit, then what does that make the faroe islands? cancer?

What are you on about? They're a poor team, that's why I think they're shit.

Originally posted by vandalworks
if england fans want to overhype and put football as the most important thing in their life, then let them be idiotic and leave them do it. what does it matter to the rest of us? why do you need to feel you have to be so vocal about it?

Why do they? As if they're allowed to and I'm not. I live in East London, I have to deal with it more or less all the time. There are people who still have England flags out despite them being knocked out of LAST YEAR'S World Cup. The most I do is rant about it here.

Originally posted by vandalworks
why choose to support brazil? apparantly you knew nothing about them when you decided to support them.... yes brazil, one of the most well known countries in fotball history. you're not, dare i say *gulps* a glory supporter? i dont think you are, you cant be that stupid. i just dont understand what is bordering on hatred for a simple football team.

Because I enjoyed the football they played. The matches they had just happened to be the ones I enjoyed. England weren't even in that World Cup if I remember. I didn't know they were going to win, I knew they had a rep for being good, but so did lots of other teams, so your analogy is faulty. They weren't even favs to win, I believe. It happened that they did, I've supported them ever since. From their World Cup wins to the poor showing in that past Copa America and loss to China that one time, through their poor showing this World Cup. I support them because I enjoy them the most, which is what anybody should do I feel.

You say you don't understand why I dislike them so much, I don't understand why, EVERY SINGLE TIME, there are poster, papers full of propaganda, songs, everything like that.

The cowardly tactic IS to dismiss me as some England hating glory supporter, but you know that's not the case, I'm making valid claims.

-AC

right guys got some points to make.

Came back last night from Glasgow after what was the craziest atmosphere I have ever been to. Before kickoff was the best time ever. I am utterly gutted with the result against Italy, ALOT happened during that game but the second half was really really enjoyable and scotland dominated it for a good 80% of that half. I was at the WEST STAND when the Hutton and Toni insident happened so I was probably one of the most furthest away persons in the stand. I got back to the hotel and saw highlights and I CANNOT believe the linesman gave italy a freekick, it just baffles me ----- I'm gonna have to barge people in games to make sure I get freekicks.

Nothing taken away from Italy's game, that freekick was top drawer and Pirlo is up in my top 3 of freekick takers of all time. However, their first goal was down to 3 scotland players standing around and leaving an italian in the penatly box himself. 2 centre halfs needed to decide faster who was marking and who was going push in for a challenge.

Anyways, after the game I have never been more proud to be Scottish, everyone in the stadium was still singing and when the players came out for a lap of honor. There were alot of Italians at our hotel and after the game I shared a drink or three with them and they congratulated on a great match and a succesful campaign and they are convinced we belong at the next world cup.

Now then....ENGLAND, I have supported Croatia since Euro 96 and have every AWAY shirt they have released since then. I think Croatia will see off England at Wembley, I have never been to wembley but I hear the atsmosphere is a bit dull and that most fans are just sitting waiting for a goal instead of enjoying the experience.

If England do beat Croatia by 2 goals thats THEM finishing top of the group....you have to remember that, I know they have had a few scares and that results have been poor at best at the start of the qualification....the manage can't get sacked for topping the group, but hey they still might not qualify.

Brazi are not as good as they used to be due to a whole new team coming through, pretty much Kaka, Robinho, Ronaldinho and Alves are the only players I recognise nowadays in the team. Its not the same type of play either.

Discos - Post some pics of Hampden soon

I do not rule out that possibility because in the unlikely even they do, it will make living in this country slightly less unbearable.

and it'll make living in this country infinitely more unbearable

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I have no problems admitting I am anti-patriotism. Patriotism is disgusting, you cannot help where you are born, so there is absolutely no point being proud in it for no reason. I love London because I have grown to love it, not out of some sense of birth obligation.

agreed totally.

i suffered from this too.

i still support england because thats all ive ever done. but i now know it doesnt matter who you support.

i just try and enjoy the game now. regardless of who wins

as discos stated... england score two goals they're top of the group. would a shit team really have a chance at finishing top of the group for qualifying?

i'm not saying they're good, but saying that they're shit is stupid. how could a shit team be in that kind of position? what des that make all the other teams below them? utter shit????

Originally posted by vandalworks
as discos stated... england score two goals they're top of the group. would a shit team really have a chance at finishing top of the group for qualifying?

I knew it, I actually said that their struggle to qualify, because they're shit, would vanish in the minds of fans.

Originally posted by vandalworks
i'm not saying they're good, but saying that they're shit is stupid. how could a shit team be in that kind of position? what des that make all the other teams below them? utter shit????

Luck, they are in it, still, because of luck.

They are a shit team, utter shit.

-AC

I guess it could be called luck, I think it was just the way the fixtures were made, if england and croatia played on saturday then that would have been that game over and whatever result came....THEN on the wednesday england would have to see if israel could do them a favour?

Its weird but Englands group just sucks IMO. They got a pretty easy group, the media can make out Russia to be the "most craziest hardest team ever to play against england away from home"...whatever, russia arn't that great, I really really want to see england play a difficult tam for a change AWAY from home...they were lucky to only lose 2-1 to germay at home

erm....Italy vs England? Czech Vs England

They haven't really proved to me in 3-4 years that they can compete against Europes elite, their hardest challenge at the World Cup was Sweden and yet again they couldnt defeat them.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I knew it, I actually said that their struggle to qualify, because they're shit, would vanish in the minds of fans.

Luck, they are in it, still, because of luck.

They are a shit team, utter shit.

-AC

jesus christ.... i'm not even a fan. i'm not even that much of a football fan. but looking from the outside gives such a nice perspective.

you saying they're a shit team is PURE opinion. if they were 'shit' then they wouldnt have won a game for a couple of years like a wales or northen island a few years ago. thats shit. i'm happy for a team to be called shit if they are ACTUALLY shit. but england aint shit. like i said before they're just average. one of those teams where if tehy play well, they can beat teams. if they dont play well they're in trouble. that doesnt equate to shit. if they finished the group with a negative goal difference and say, 8 points, yes.... you can call them shit.

either that or you're a very high standards person and anything but the best is shit. which is just fantasy land.

Originally posted by vandalworks
jesus christ.... i'm not even a fan. i'm not even that much of a football fan. but looking from the outside gives such a nice perspective.

you saying they're a shit team is PURE opinion. if they were 'shit' then they wouldnt have won a game for a couple of years like a wales or northen island a few years ago. thats shit. i'm happy for a team to be called shit if they are ACTUALLY shit. but england aint shit. like i said before they're just average. one of those teams where if tehy play well, they can beat teams. if they dont play well they're in trouble. that doesnt equate to shit. if they finished the group with a negative goal difference and say, 8 points, yes.... you can call them shit.

either that or you're a very high standards person and anything but the best is shit. which is just fantasy land.

Your definition of shit is opinion. My definition of shit is the way they play, the results they get. I don't look at results over peons as something worthy of calling them average.

You cannot sit there and say it's my opinion they are shit, then suggest that it's a fact that they are average. It's your opinion that they are average because you feel shit teams lose ALL the time, for all their games. I think Tottenham are shit, they win games.

I can call them shit right now. England are shit <--- There.

You say it's stupid to think anything less than the best is shit, which isn't my stance ANYWAY, but you think anything better than the worst isn't shit.

-AC

oh alpha, you poor deluded child.

i'll leave this topic where it is, seems like you're happy to think that way and thats up2 you. if you cant see facts, then hey, not my problem.

Originally posted by vandalworks
oh alpha, you poor deluded child.

i'll leave this topic where it is, seems like you're happy to think that way and thats up2 you. if you cant see facts, then hey, not my problem.

You don't even watch football that much, who is to assume you even have a clue?

You sit there saying it's opinion they're shit, fact that they're average, no. You're being silly.

You don't know about football so don't discuss it.

-AC

Mcleish won't leave, He wouldnt do that to the country as we already went through the exact same thing with Walter Smith.

Birmingham job? haha I think not, he is a top manager in my opinion and had a great spell at Rangers. If he were tempted to the premier league I am sure it would be a bigger club who could assure him staying in the prem league, a mid-table team.

Also the Croatia match, I expect a tight game, 0-0 at half time and then Croatia will mak england work for a point by squeezing a goal in round about the 55th minute.

england will win 2-0. the third goal will never come

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You don't even watch football that much, who is to assume you even have a clue?

You sit there saying it's opinion they're shit, fact that they're average, no. You're being silly.

You don't know about football so don't discuss it.

-AC

i said i dont like football that much, doesnt mean i dont know much about it. and when did i state i dont watch much of it? all i said was that i'm not much of a football fan. just because i dont love the sport like some people doesnt mean i know more or less.