Originally posted by RocasAtoll
You're right on all those fights; but we aren't talking about two professional fighters. We are talking about a pro wrestler and an actor. There is a big difference.
There's documentation to prove that Lee wasn't just an actor; he was a recognized martial artist and a martial arts instructor. Not saying this alone would win the fight, but dismissing him because he acted in a few movies is being dishonest.
Originally posted by Robtard
There's documentation to prove that Lee wasn't just an actor; he was a recognized martial artist and a martial arts instructor. Not saying this alone would win the fight, but dismissing him because he acted in a few movies is being dishonest.
I'm not dismissing him because he acted in a few movies; I dismissed him since he has no record when it comes to actually fighting someone. He's an actor. Nothing more.
Originally posted by Soleran
Well actually, someone can teach "theory" all day long without "experience." It happens in schools everyday, all the time.
Bruce Lee didn't teach the "theory" of striking/fighting, there's (ex)students still alive today that can attest that they indeed were taught real-time techniques.
Originally posted by Robtard
Bruce Lee didn't teach the "theory" of striking/fighting, there's (ex)students still alive today that can attest that they indeed were taught real-time techniques.
That's not what I meant.
I understand what you're saying though.
Teaching students certainly doesn't make you a fantastic martial artist, that's my point.
Originally posted by Robtard
Correct, it doesn't in of itself, but at the very least it's safe to say Lee wasn't "just an actor". That's my point.
He was a professional teacher, that's a far cry from professional fighter.
Ali showed that he could take 10 plus rounds of brutal punishment in the ring with crazy heat to boot, he has crazy stamina and durability.
The odds are not in Lee's favor based on what we can show and prove of both fighters today, hence my opinion of Ali winning a fight with Lee who typically thrives today on stereotypes and bad information from fans.
Originally posted by Soleran
He was a professional teacher, that's a far cry from professional fighter.Ali showed that he could take 10 plus rounds of brutal punishment in the ring with crazy heat to boot, he has crazy stamina and durability.
The odds are not in Lee's favor based on what we can show and prove of both fighters today, hence my opinion of Ali winning a fight with Lee who typically thrives today on stereotypes and bad information from fans.
Alas, it proves my point that he was more than "just an actor" as others have said.
I've never doubted Ali's skill or capabilities; as far as who would win, we went back and forth already on it.
I think you have a valid opinion with valid points.
Originally posted by Robtard
Correct, it doesn't in of itself, but at the very least it's safe to say Lee wasn't "just an actor". That's my point.
As far as the fight is concerned, Bruce was just an actor.
Originally posted by Soleran
He was a professional teacher, that's a far cry from professional fighter.Ali showed that he could take 10 plus rounds of brutal punishment in the ring with crazy heat to boot, he has crazy stamina and durability.
The odds are not in Lee's favor based on what we can show and prove of both fighters today, hence my opinion of Ali winning a fight with Lee who typically thrives today on stereotypes and bad information from fans.
My god, thats about the smartest thing I've read in this thread. My only disagreement is with the odds not being in Lee's favor. Lee has no odds against Ali, Ali would pummel him into the ground.
Originally posted by Robtard
Na, London was a mediocre boxer, his loses almost matched his wins... something like 35-20.
What about Liston? Ali's footwork and speed is amazing.
Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
What about Liston? Ali's footwork and speed is amazing.
Ali's superb skills as a boxer were never in question [in my mind]; that fight clearly demonstrats it as Sonny was a superb boxer also; record 54-4. Controversies aside.
Originally posted by StyleTime
I
I would agree to disagree.....if this was a matter of opinion but it's far from that. The [B]fact is, Bruce Lee has never demonstrated the ability to defeat Ali. Ali wins. There is no agree to disagree here.That just goes along with what I said earlier though. The best fighters typically max out in weight around Fedor's size. If you get much heavier, it's actually appears to be a disadvantage. [/B]
How can you even say that about bruce Lee? this God damn question is entirely hypothetical.
In my experience Speed succeeds strength. Bruce Lee
conditioning is the stalmate of agility.
Power and force summoned at will to deal heart shattering, and stopping impact
We have plenty of evidence of Bruce Lee's feat's. his entire god damn life. revolved around figthing. So to call him a professional teacher of fighting, is one and the same to be called a professional fighter. How can one teach what has never been experienced? Answer me this? The myth that you people talk about is merely the accounts retold by family and friends. Of course documented footage of fighting has never been made,that was not apart of his vision. to fight, but to learn. the only true way to have peace is to be prepared for war.
So yes...their are grounds on being able to agree to disagree, but infact i do not even see how someone so informed in fighting does not even give Lee a 50/ 50 shot. So this tells me, One must still not have found the true understanding behind the art of fighting and is still Preoccuppied with facts and figures. Muscle and style mean nothing if the other person knows how to use it better to their advantage...strategy and will my friend. go learn something
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
In my experience Speed succeeds strength. Bruce Lee
Ali is VERY fast so it isn't like Lee is legs up here if at all.
conditioning is the stalmate of agility.
Lee was very well conditioned so was Ali, I suppose you could say Lee has more agility since he is freak'n half the size of Ali.
force summoned at will to deal heart shattering, and stopping impact
Ali has POWER in SPADES over Lee.
call him a professional teacher of fighting, is one and the same to be called a professional fighter. How can one teach what has never been experienced? Answer me this? The myth that you people talk about is merely the accounts retold by family and friends. Of course documented footage of fighting has never been made,that was not apart of his vision. to fight, but to learn.
You can call him anything you want, I'll call him a teacher and a teacher isn't remotely the same as a fighter that gets in the "arena" and proves himself vs other opponents as skilled or more so then himself. Being a teacher you show folks who know "less" then you, overcoming that is child's play. No one has any proof to show that Lee could stand to Ali, not even close, not even from heresay.
So yes...their are grounds on being able to agree to disagree, but infact i do not even see how someone so informed in fighting does not even give Lee a 50/ 50 shot. So this tells me, One must still not have found the true understanding behind the art of fighting and is still Preoccuppied with facts and figures. Muscle and style mean nothing if the other person knows how to use it better to their advantage...strategy and will my friend. go learn something
Philosophy doesn't win fights, action wins fights. Ali proved that time and again with the heart he showed time and again in the arena proving his skills, Lee talked about his skills, less talk more show. Facts and figures don't tell the whole tell but they can certainly outline some details of what's happening. Ali actually stood up to bigger stronger men and won with speed and strategy and yes, even heart. Ali based on historical proof of his fighting abilities would more then likely take greater then a 50/50 split with Lee.