Originally posted by dadudemon
This is one of those things that makes it stupid to consider this a "fair fight".How will he be able to quickly avoid kicks that specifically play into his punches? WTF would Ali be able to do about kicks that he CAN'T pay attention to?
A bit presumptious to be telling the champ what he can't do... 😛
The hundredth of a second hes in range to deliver those kicks, he'd get clocked, and its not like Boxers (especially of Ali's experience and calibre) aren't aware that the legs (especially the leading leg) a target. He can avoid then hook or uppercut Lee into next week..
Besides, if your talking low extended sweep kicks, by the time Lee has got to that position, if Ali can't counter, he could just move back a couple of steps out of Lee's range. And the problem for the kicker is, that no matter how fast he is, for a moment after the kick he is vulnerable to be put off balance or being piled into. A boxer doesn't sacrifice balance with any shots in that way.. and it generates the power and speed.
Thsi is why casualty ward after casualty ward is full of Bruce Lee wanna bes who found out the hard way why on the street kicks are not practical. (Especially against some one who is trained- and again, especially against someone who has the adavantages Ali has compared to Lee.)
And how many kickers win in unified fight tournaments compared to those with a combination of Ju-Jitsu and Boxing...?
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
A bit presumptious to be telling the champ what he can't do... 😛The hundredth of a second hes in range to deliver those kicks, he'd get clocked, and its not like Boxers (especially of Ali's experience and calibre) aren't aware that the legs (especially the leading leg) a target. He can avoid then hook or uppercut Lee into next week..
Besides, if your talking low extended sweep kicks, by the time Lee has got to that position, if Ali can't counter, he could just move back a couple of steps out of Lee's range. And the problem for the kicker is, that no matter how fast he is, for a moment after the kick he is vulnerable to be put off balance or being piled into. A boxer doesn't sacrifice balance with any shots in that way.. and it generates the power and speed.
Thsi is why casualty ward after casualty ward is full of Bruce Lee wanna bes who found out the hard way why on the street kicks are not practical. (Especially against some one who is trained- and again, especially against someone who has the adavantages Ali has compared to Lee.)
And how many kickers win in unified fight tournaments compared to those with a combination of Ju-Jitsu and Boxing...?
"A bit presumptious to be telling the champ what he can do"
Also, I highly doubt Lee would be making wild uncalculated kicks. It would seem absurd to think that Ali can block kicks to the back of his had.
When's the last time you heard of a boxer winning a freestyle martial arts tournament? You are aware that they DO enter those competitions, aren't you?
😂 Touche 😛
Not as absurd as the notion of Ali letting Lee get that kick round to the back of his head in the 1st place. Boxers routinely block rabbit shots.
or as absurd as Lee being able to Block even Ali's jab.
Let alone the the right crosses, straights right, hooks and uppercuts that'd rain down after it at a rate of three punches a second like a sledgehammer.
Didn't the Gracie's use boxing as their hand system...?
BTW Thought this was cool. Not a vs thing, but a "things they had in common" thing: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=653342
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
😂 Touche 😛
Glad you took that well...I forgot to include a smart ass smilie to show that I wasn't being a dick...but rather, my typical goofy smart ass self.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not as absurd as the notion of Ali letting Lee get that kick round to the back of his head in the 1st place. Boxers routinely block rabbit shots.
I've done the boxing thing myself. No official fights...just practice. It is tiring as hell...but that is off the subject..
Anyway, I have also watched many many boxing matches...tons. I have a hard time believing that Ali could avoid a kick to the back of the head that is specifically dependent on his own movements. Its rather difficult to avoid those types of moves because they are specifically designed to strike based on your own moves. You can avoid them by specifically designed counters. How would Ali know this stuff already?
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
or as absurd as Lee being able to Block even Ali's jab.
Why would he need to block it? You assume that any punches would land. Free style martial art fighting is a whole lot different than boxing rules. Boxing is much to linear. That's why we don't have a bunch of boxers winning martial art tournaments despite boxers participating.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Let alone the the right crosses, straights right, hooks and uppercits that'd rain down after it at a rate of three punches a second like a sledgehammer.
Let's not forgot that Lee's punches and kicks are faster... 😄[/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by dadudemon[/B][/QUOTE]
Glad you took that well...I forgot to include a smart ass smilie to show that I wasn't being a dick...but rather, my typical goofy smart ass self.I've done the boxing thing myself. No official fights...just practice. It is tiring as hell...but that is off the subject..
Anyway, I have also watched many many boxing matches...tons. I have a hard time believing that Ali could avoid a kick to the back of the head that is specifically dependent on his own movements. Its rather difficult to avoid those types of moves because they are specifically designed to strike based on your own moves. You can avoid them by specifically designed counters. How would Ali know this stuff already?
Why would he need to block it? You assume that any punches would land. Free style martial art fighting is a whole lot different than boxing rules. Boxing is much to linear. That's why we don't have a bunch of boxers winning martial art tournaments despite boxers participating.
Let's not forgot that Lee's punches and kicks are faster... 😄
Cool.
I was a big student of boxing history and was active in and outside the gym, on and off over 2000-2004, I did little else except learn that and things from different styles including thai kickboxing (elbows, kness backhands etc) Jujitsu (Naked strangle variant and a couple of other bits) and I grew up doing Judo as a kid and then some Karate.
The principle of the economy of movement is something I worked into my boxing, that was taken from Bruce Lee for example.
So Im not the most recognised in the world, but I can see the value of intergrated styles.
And Boxing and Wing Chun have to be the best two handsystems Ive seen.
But big skillful fast boxer smashes small but skillful Wing chun guy especially in this instance, I reckon.
Same way he magically anticipated the thousands of other shots we saw him avoid in the ring...? High speed reading of body language...? (Fighting, you experienece time differently.) Dunno, intuition...? You'd have to ask him.
The countering question is can Bruce Kick with 6ft 4 into the air with precision, power and reliability, and guarnteeing not getting caught on the way in even once...?
He'd need to block it because with the reach and speed would ensure and weight and impact of frequency of the shots being so jolting and constantly on him, that if he can't block the first, he's gonna be out of there really quick. And if the 1st doesn't land, the next 20 will.
They have around the same hand speed but due to the distance being greater and the weight travelling that extra distance in the same time, the power is much more in favour of Ali.
And Ali could throw in fast, fluid combinations.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I see Ali blocking Lee's punches easily, until Lee sweeps his ass off the floor, or until Lee does a flip kick.
Those types of move look awesome in movies, in a real fight where an oppponent can and will knock you out with one punch, they're all but worthless.
Of note, there's a reason why the top MMA fighters don't "leg sweep" and "backflip".
Originally posted by Sadako of GirthCool.
I was a big student of boxing history and was active in and outside the gym, on and off over 2000-2004, I did little else except learn that and things from different styles including thai kickboxing (elbows, kness backhands etc) Jujitsu (Naked strangle variant and a couple of other bits) and I grew up doing Judo as a kid and then some Karate.
The principle of the economy of movement is something I worked into my boxing, that was taken from Bruce Lee for example.
So Im not the most recognised in the world, but I can see the value of intergrated styles.And Boxing and Wing Chun have to be the best two handsystems Ive seen.
But big skillful fast boxer smashes small but skillful Wing chun guy especially in this instance, I reckon.
Awesome. Based off of what I read, I think Chill is pretty damned good too.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Same way he magically anticipated the thousands of other shots we saw him avoid in the ring...? High speed reading of body language...? (Fighting, you experienece time differently.) Dunno, intuition...? You'd have to ask him.
The countering question is can Bruce Kick with 6ft 4 into the air with precision, power and reliability, and guarnteeing not getting caught on the way in even once...?
I think he was 6'3". Also, Ali will not be standing straight up. He would be well within the range of Lee's kicks, counters, etc.
Lee was very fast. Faster than Ali. Ali isn't fast compared to the boxers nowadays. Bruce is still faster than most boxers nowadays. Bruce Lee was so fast, they had to slow it down a bit to get it on camera. Remember?
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
He'd need to block it because with the reach and speed would ensure and weight and impact of frequency of the shots being so jolting and constantly on him, that if he can't block the first, he's gonna be out of there really quick. And if the 1st doesn't land, the next 20 will.
I disagree, of course. I have a hard time seeing more than just a few shots actually making impact, and at that, very little of a connection. The tables in your above scenario can quickly be reversed. Ali wouldn't be able to handle even the hand speed of Lee. He would be taken aback.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
They have around the same hand speed but due to the distance being greater and the weight travelling that extra distance in the same time, the power is much more in favour of Ali.
And Ali could throw in fast, fluid combinations.
No. Lee is faster. His kicks are as faster or faster than his Ali's punches. Is there an expert to analyze video for either of us to prove that? Also, Lee punches are faster than Ali's.
Here is what some think is Ali's greatest:
Man....watching that video renews my love for "The Greatest". I love this guy.cry
Bruce Lee has 5 things he can use in a fight, fists, feet and his head.
Ali only has two fists to hit Lee with, by the time Ali even thinks of landing a punch, Bruce could have (as RJ says) leg sweep him, then rain the pain with his fists of fury 😂
Lee is a lot more focused and a lot smarter than Ali
It just seems unfair for Ali I think.
well not unfair cause Ali would probably find someway to win anyways 😂
Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]You can look them up yourself and discredit them if they are worthless pieces of shit. Until the, they are "feats". Suck it.I never avoided the question...I didn't know you wanted an answer or if you were asking more questions you thought rhetorical.
Regardless of my answer, it is wrong either way. If I say yes, you call fanboyism and biased judgment. If I say no, I'm obviously wrong because those feats do, in one way or another, transfer to combat prowess. The answer to your question is not a definitive "yes" or "no".
The answer to THIS question, however, CAN be narrowed down into absolutes.
"Do the feats, listed and cited for Bruce Lee, help prove that Bruce Lee has some extreme capabilities that can translate into combat prowess?"
[B]
Oh, perfect then. Then Ali can spontaneously combust Asian men with just a thought. Also, his "blackness" destroys all in a fight.
Stop being a little girl with your whining "regardless of what I say, it will be wrong".
Why does this always happen, you turning into a retard in mid debate?
Originally posted by ScarletSpeed
Bruce Lee has 5 things he can use in a fight, fists, feet and his head.Ali only has two fists to hit Lee with, by the time Ali even thinks of landing a punch, Bruce could have (as RJ says) leg sweep him, then rain the pain with his fists of fury 😂
Lee is a lot more focused and a lot smarter than Ali
It just seems unfair for Ali I think.
Ali only needs his two fist to end a fight and it's been proven time and time again.
Like I said above, all those fancys move look great on film, but there's a reason why top MMA fighters don't "leg sweep" when facing an opponent that could end you with one or two hits.
What gives you the impression that Lee is more "focused and smarter"? We have fights proving Ali's fighting focus and smarts, what do we have of Lee?
Originally posted by ScarletSpeed
Bruce Lee has 5 things he can use in a fight, fists, feet and his head.Ali only has two fists to hit Lee with, by the time Ali even thinks of landing a punch, Bruce could have (as RJ says) leg sweep him, then rain the pain with his fists of fury 😂
Lee is a lot more focused and a lot smarter than Ali
It just seems unfair for Ali I think.
well not unfair cause Ali would probably find someway to win anyways 😂
Have you ever seen the Ali/Inoki exhibition bout?
If Foreman with his strength and size had serious trouble hurting Ali, what would a 135 pound guy do?
Answer: Not enough before he gets knocked the **** out.
Originally posted by Robtard
Ali only needs his two fist to end a fight and it's been proven time and time again.Like I said above, all those fancy move look great on film, but there's a reason why top MMA fighters don't "leg sweep" when facing an opponent that could end you with one or two hits.
What gives you the impression that Lee is more "focused and smarter"? We have fights proving Ali's fighting focus and smarts, what do we have of Lee?
Its Lee's almost superhuman dedication to training and development of his techniques.
Tell me something...was it as common as it was for Lee to knock someone out as fast as Lee did in almost all his official fights? Can Ali claim the same? Do the little guys knock out each other as often as the big guys do in boxing?
Originally posted by Robtard
Ali only needs his two fist to end a fight and it's been proven time and time again.Like I said above, all those fancy move look great on film, but there's a reason why top MMA fighters don't "leg sweep" when facing an opponent that could end you with one or two hits.
What gives you the impression that Lee is more "focused and smarter"? We have fights proving Ali's fighting focus and smarts, what do we have of Lee?
His physical condition was at the best it could possibly be(way better than Ali'😉, which would require a hell of a lot of focus.
He developed his own Martial Art which is now one of the most commonly practiced in the world, naturally during fights he is more technical due to the wide range of different combos and variations he could use.
What did Ali do that was more focused or technically smarter
I'm not trying to argue, I genuinely don't know.
Originally posted by Robtard
Oh, perfect then. Then Ali can spontaneously combust Asian men with just a thought. Also, his "blackness" destroys all in a fight.
Why does this always happen, you turning into a retard in mid-debate?
Originally posted by Robtard
Stop being a little girl with your whining "regardless of what I say, it will be wrong".
Jeez...you convinced me. I am overwhelmed with you uber argument.
Why does this always happen, you turning into a retard in mid-debate?
Originally posted by Robtard
Why does this always happen, you turning into a retard in mid debate?
This argument is also overwhelming. In my defense, you are always a retard in debates...more specifically, a Robtard.
Originally posted by ScarletSpeed
His physical condition was at the best it could possibly be(way better than Ali'😉, which would require a hell of a lot of focus.
He developed his own Martial Art which is now one of the most commonly practiced in the world, naturally during fights he is more technical due to the wide range of different combos and variations he could use.What did Ali do that was more focused or technically smarter
I'm not trying to argue, I genuinely don't know.
Well put.
Originally posted by ScarletSpeed
His physical condition was at the best it could possibly be(way better than Ali'😉, which would require a hell of a lot of focus.
He developed his own Martial Art which is now one of the most commonly practiced in the world, naturally during fights he is more technical due to the wide range of different combos and variations he could use.What did Ali do that was more focused or technically smarter
I'm not trying to argue, I genuinely don't know.
He fought lots of 15 round fights against the best in the world did he?
Yeah, he was an Olympic champion. You do know how hard Boxers train right?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Why does this always happen, you turning into a retard in mid-debate?Jeez...you convinced me. I am overwhelmed with you uber argument.
Why does this always happen, you turning into a retard in mid-debate?
This argument is also overwhelming. In my defense, you are always a retard in debates...more specifically, a Robtard.
There's a reason why many people just either ignore you or straight out put you on ignore.