Muhammad Ali or Bruce Lee?

🙂

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Bruce Lee Plagiarist 😂 more Lee Fakery

http://www.martialdirect.com/articles/bruceleept1.htm

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"...It is a constant, rapid shifting of ground, seeking the slightest closing which will greatly increase the chances of hitting the opponent."

Sports Illustrated: Book of Fencing

"It is a constant rapid shifting of ground, seeking the slight closing of distance, which will greatly increase the chances of hitting the opponent."

Most JKD people are aware that Bruce Lee borrowed many ideas from western fencing, but did you know that this was an almost direct quote?

The copyright on the Sports Illustrated: Book of Fencing is 1960, 1962. It was published in 1962. Now Bruce Lee would have been in Seattle at this time and still attending Edison Technical School. It is very doubtful that Lee would have written this first. Also, Lee was still very much Wing Chun oriented in his fighting style. It was not until the late sixties that Lee coined the term "Jeet Kune Do", which we have been told consists mainly of Wing Chun, boxing, and western fencing.

Here are a couple of examples where Bruce Lee took someone else's words and either simply inserted "Jeet Kune Do" or changed it slightly to accommodate an unarmed combat art.

One that I have heard repeated many times over the years and Bruce Lee even included in a personal letter to a fan named "John", in only slightly different wording, is:

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"With all the training thrown to the wind, with a mind perfectly unaware of its own working, with the self vanishing nowhere, anybody knows where, the art of Jeet Kune Do attains its perfection."

Yagyu Tajima no kami Munenori (1571-1646) Japanese swordsman

"...When this is realized, with all the training thrown to the winds, with a mind perfectly unaware of its own workings, with the self vanished nowhere anybody knows, the art of swordsmanship attains its perfection and one who has it is called a meijin."

This was written over 300 years ago! It appears to be an adopted philosophy that should be credited to Yagyu Tajima no kami Munenori, not Bruce Lee.

Here is yet another passage adapted to Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do.

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"Approach Jeet Kune Do with the idea of mastering the will. Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life! Do not be concerned with your escaping safely- lay your life before him!"

Cited in D.T. Suzuki's Zen and Japanese Culture, (copyright 1959) is a commentary note in the book called Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai that reads:

"Araki Matayemon [a great swordsman of the Tokugawa era] gave this instruction to his nephew, Watanabe Kazuma, when they were about to engage in the deadly fight with their enemy: 'Let the enemy touch your skin and you cut into his flesh; let him cut into your flesh and you pierce into his bones; let him pierce into your bones and you take his life!' "

Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai (Hagakure meaning "hidden leaves" or "hidden by leaves"😉 was written by Yamamoto Tsunetomo and first published on September 10, 1716. Again, there should be no doubt as to the original author. Bruce Lee changed the wording to suit his art, but the origins are clearly seen.

And there is another instance I'd like to mention. This is stated in the book The Warrior Within, by John Little as:

The Three Stages of Cultivation

(Bruce Lee's words)
"The first stage is the primitive stage. It is a stage of original ignorance in which a person knows nothing about the art of combat...he simply blocks and strikes instinctively..."
"The second stage- the stage of sophistication, or mechanical stage- begins when a person starts his training. He is taught the different ways of blocking, striking,...Unquestionably, he has gained the scientific knowledge of combat, but unfortunately his original self and sense of freedom are lost, and his action no longer flows by itself...his mind tends to freeze at different movements..."
"The third stage- the stage of artlessness, or spontaneous stage- occurs when, after years of serious and hard practice, the student realizes that after all, gung fu is nothing special..."

In D.T. Suzuki's book Zen and Japanese Culture, (copyright 1959) he writes about Zen as it applies to swordsmanship. Look at the remarkable similarity!

"To state it in terms of swordsmanship, the genuine beginner knows nothing about the way of holding and managing the sword...when the opponent tries to strike him, he instinctively parries it."
"But as soon as the training starts, he is taught how to handle the sword,...and many other technical tricks- which makes the mind 'stop' at various junctures. For this reason whenever he tries to strike the opponent he feels unusually hampered; [he has lost altogether the original sense of innocence and freedom]."
"But as days and years go by, as his training acquires fuller maturity, his bodily attitude and his way of managing the sword advance toward 'no-mind-ness,' which resemble the state of mind he had at the very beginning of training when he knew nothing, when he was altogether ignorant of the art. The beginning and the end thus turn into nextdoor neighbors."

Look at the similarities of the words used: Bruce Lee D.T. Suzuki
1.) blocks and strikes instinctively he instinctively parries
2.) begins when a person starts his training as soon as the training starts
3.) original self/sense of freedom original sense of innocence/freedom
4.) mind tends to freeze makes the mind 'stop'
5.) spontaneous stage "no-mind-ness"
6.) after years of serious...practice as days and years go by

This is a Zen concept of learning and can be applied to almost anything. My point is the similarity in wording. The words of Bruce Lee have been published as though the idea of the three stages were his own creation. In The Warrior Within, John Little states about Lee:

"...he drafted a fascinating philosophical treatise, which he called The Three Stages of Cultivation."

And then goes on to describe them.

Suzuki's book was published in 1959. It was a revised and enlarged version of a book published originally in 1938. Bruce Lee would not have even been born in 1938. (b. 1940) He would have just been arriving in the United States in 1959. The preface to Suzuki's revised edition is dated 1958, before Lee's arrival in the States. I think it is safe to say that Suzuki's work pre-dates Lee's.

It should become quite obvious that these examples are not the original works of Bruce Lee. They have been presented to us, the public, as though they were Bruce Lee originals, when most are only copied or adapted personal notes, with a few exceptions.

In Part 2, we will examine direct quotes taken from various sources and more borrowed philosophies of the "Little Dragon."

Bored now - keep looking for the myodynamics destruction of his weights programme and can't find it. I will soon🙂

hiyahh 😂

The guy would be dangerous if he invented anything himself 😆

Keep the faith 🙂

Stay Whirly 🤘

🙂

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
How Ali is superior - He won real fights!

How Lee is inferior - He didn't!

Lee- footwork - Having just watched the big boss 😂 It was very 80's TV A team, ahead of its time, but not real.

Yeah - the power rangers do Wu Shu Kung Fu and are fast, some are much bigger than lee. 🙂 The power rangers train and have practice fights a lot.

Ali- footwork, it was brilliant, "Floats like a butterfly, stings like a bee". Olympic champion.

Lee would have made a good power ranger except their fight scenes are more spectacular than the green hornet was 🙂 one inch punch away

Keep the faith🙂

Stay Whirly 🙂

Originally posted by StyleTime
Could you offer some proof Lee could do that?

Bruce Lee wrote books on the subject. You may be able to find a pdf on his style. Once you read it, you will see why Ali would have never wanted to get into a fight with him. Not myth, but fact.

Originally posted by Stoic
Bruce Lee wrote books on the subject. You may be able to find a pdf on his style. Once you read it, you will see why Ali would have never wanted to get into a fight with him. Not myth, but fact.

Bruce Lee wrote little, he copied a lot.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Indeed my friend 🙂

reposted because I love it

Bruce Lee Plagiarist more Lee Fakery

http://www.martialdirect.com/articles/bruceleept1.htm

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"...It is a constant, rapid shifting of ground, seeking the slightest closing which will greatly increase the chances of hitting the opponent."

Sports Illustrated: Book of Fencing

"It is a constant rapid shifting of ground, seeking the slight closing of distance, which will greatly increase the chances of hitting the opponent."

Most JKD people are aware that Bruce Lee borrowed many ideas from western fencing, but did you know that this was an almost direct quote?

The copyright on the Sports Illustrated: Book of Fencing is 1960, 1962. It was published in 1962. Now Bruce Lee would have been in Seattle at this time and still attending Edison Technical School. It is very doubtful that Lee would have written this first. Also, Lee was still very much Wing Chun oriented in his fighting style. It was not until the late sixties that Lee coined the term "Jeet Kune Do", which we have been told consists mainly of Wing Chun, boxing, and western fencing.

Here are a couple of examples where Bruce Lee took someone else's words and either simply inserted "Jeet Kune Do" or changed it slightly to accommodate an unarmed combat art.

One that I have heard repeated many times over the years and Bruce Lee even included in a personal letter to a fan named "John", in only slightly different wording, is:

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"With all the training thrown to the wind, with a mind perfectly unaware of its own working, with the self vanishing nowhere, anybody knows where, the art of Jeet Kune Do attains its perfection."

Yagyu Tajima no kami Munenori (1571-1646) Japanese swordsman

"...When this is realized, with all the training thrown to the winds, with a mind perfectly unaware of its own workings, with the self vanished nowhere anybody knows, the art of swordsmanship attains its perfection and one who has it is called a meijin."

This was written over 300 years ago! It appears to be an adopted philosophy that should be credited to Yagyu Tajima no kami Munenori, not Bruce Lee.

Here is yet another passage adapted to Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do.

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"Approach Jeet Kune Do with the idea of mastering the will. Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life! Do not be concerned with your escaping safely- lay your life before him!"

Cited in D.T. Suzuki's Zen and Japanese Culture, (copyright 1959) is a commentary note in the book called Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai that reads:

"Araki Matayemon [a great swordsman of the Tokugawa era] gave this instruction to his nephew, Watanabe Kazuma, when they were about to engage in the deadly fight with their enemy: 'Let the enemy touch your skin and you cut into his flesh; let him cut into your flesh and you pierce into his bones; let him pierce into your bones and you take his life!' "

Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai (Hagakure meaning "hidden leaves" or "hidden by leaves"😉 was written by Yamamoto Tsunetomo and first published on September 10, 1716. Again, there should be no doubt as to the original author. Bruce Lee changed the wording to suit his art, but the origins are clearly seen.

And there is another instance I'd like to mention. This is stated in the book The Warrior Within, by John Little as:

The Three Stages of Cultivation

(Bruce Lee's words)
"The first stage is the primitive stage. It is a stage of original ignorance in which a person knows nothing about the art of combat...he simply blocks and strikes instinctively..."
"The second stage- the stage of sophistication, or mechanical stage- begins when a person starts his training. He is taught the different ways of blocking, striking,...Unquestionably, he has gained the scientific knowledge of combat, but unfortunately his original self and sense of freedom are lost, and his action no longer flows by itself...his mind tends to freeze at different movements..."
"The third stage- the stage of artlessness, or spontaneous stage- occurs when, after years of serious and hard practice, the student realizes that after all, gung fu is nothing special..."

In D.T. Suzuki's book Zen and Japanese Culture, (copyright 1959) he writes about Zen as it applies to swordsmanship. Look at the remarkable similarity!

"To state it in terms of swordsmanship, the genuine beginner knows nothing about the way of holding and managing the sword...when the opponent tries to strike him, he instinctively parries it."
"But as soon as the training starts, he is taught how to handle the sword,...and many other technical tricks- which makes the mind 'stop' at various junctures. For this reason whenever he tries to strike the opponent he feels unusually hampered; [he has lost altogether the original sense of innocence and freedom]."
"But as days and years go by, as his training acquires fuller maturity, his bodily attitude and his way of managing the sword advance toward 'no-mind-ness,' which resemble the state of mind he had at the very beginning of training when he knew nothing, when he was altogether ignorant of the art. The beginning and the end thus turn into nextdoor neighbors."

Look at the similarities of the words used: Bruce Lee D.T. Suzuki
1.) blocks and strikes instinctively he instinctively parries
2.) begins when a person starts his training as soon as the training starts
3.) original self/sense of freedom original sense of innocence/freedom
4.) mind tends to freeze makes the mind 'stop'
5.) spontaneous stage "no-mind-ness"
6.) after years of serious...practice as days and years go by

This is a Zen concept of learning and can be applied to almost anything. My point is the similarity in wording. The words of Bruce Lee have been published as though the idea of the three stages were his own creation. In The Warrior Within, John Little states about Lee:

"...he drafted a fascinating philosophical treatise, which he called The Three Stages of Cultivation."

And then goes on to describe them.

Suzuki's book was published in 1959. It was a revised and enlarged version of a book published originally in 1938. Bruce Lee would not have even been born in 1938. (b. 1940) He would have just been arriving in the United States in 1959. The preface to Suzuki's revised edition is dated 1958, before Lee's arrival in the States. I think it is safe to say that Suzuki's work pre-dates Lee's.

It should become quite obvious that these examples are not the original works of Bruce Lee. They have been presented to us, the public, as though they were Bruce Lee originals, when most are only copied or adapted personal notes, with a few exceptions.

In Part 2, we will examine direct quotes taken from various sources and more borrowed philosophies of the "Little Dragon."

Bored now - keep looking for the myodynamics destruction of his weights programme and can't find it. I will soon

hiyahh

The guy would be dangerous if he invented anything himself

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by The Lone Poster
Bruce Lee wrote little, he copied a lot.

What does that have to do with him applying all of that into his own style? If this is the case, we should throw out all of the martial arts of today, and say that they wouldn't be effective due to plagiarism. What a ridiculous post that is. Did you know that most modern day martial arts are derived from other styles? Ali had a very limited style of fighting, and Bruce Lee's was far more versatile without the limits of rules of engagement. Please stop quoting that ridiculous post, because it has no bearing on the OP.

Originally posted by Stoic
What does that have to do with him applying all of that into his own style? If this is the case, we should throw out all of the martial arts of today, and say that they wouldn't be effective due to plagiarism. What a ridiculous post that is. Did you know that most modern day martial arts are derived from other styles? Ali had a very limited style of fighting, and Bruce Lee's was far more versatile without the limits of rules of engagement. Please stop quoting that ridiculous post, because it has no bearing on the OP.

Way back in this thread research was done which showed Bruce only studied Judo for a couple of weeks. Pray tell, what is ridiculous about evidence over opinion?

Please show a real fight Lee had, not anecdotal evidence, hyperbole or hearsay. Please show me something.

http://www.neatorama.com/2007/10/23/10-kick-ass-facts-about-bruce-lee/

🙂 Neatorama... Sounds technical. 😕 Sources?

Originally posted by Stoic
http://www.neatorama.com/2007/10/23/10-kick-ass-facts-about-bruce-lee/

Great Source.....Not really.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Thanks Advent to nail this guy totally lets look at his training - training taken from - Bruce Lee's own books sourced throughout by Mr Hess.

References for Mr Hess's analysis and his qualifications and published work at the bottom

Bruce Lee is the personality most associated with the martial arts. Both
martial art enthusiasts and non-practioners consider the deceased actor as the ultimate martial artist. Although he did not compete in tournaments or submit to any empirical conventions wherein his ability could be objectively assessed, he is frequently referred to as a superior athlete and the strongest fighter "pound for pound." A close examination of his exercise regime and personal character reveal a committed athlete and martial artist but not to the mythic proportions usually ascribed to him. This article will review Lee's physical strength, aerobic capacity, and individual character to assess whether he should be considered the "best of the best".

I. Physical strength.
Numerous persons have stated that Bruce Lee possessed
an incredible amount of strength. Based on his exercise program, it appears he was of below-average lower body strength. According to the strength training program Lee used during 1965 (Lee, 1989), he performed squats using 95 pounds with 10 repetitions. This would equate to an estimated 1 repetition maximum (1RM) of 130 pounds (Wathen, 1994), which would place him below the 25th percentile for the 121-140 pound weight class among adult males (Hatfield, 1993).
This type of estimation for the 1 repetition maximum is standard among
athletic trainers to assess the strength level of a wide range of athletes,
both professional and amateur.While some chart estimates may vary slightly from one to another, most are within approximately 10% of one another.
Some readers, who are accustomed to viewing Lee as possessing epic strength, may assert that Lee probably was not using his maximum ability at that time. It is therefore noted that this regime occurred prior to Lee's well-known back injury. Furthermore, if Lee was capable of performing the squat exercise with more than 95 pounds for 10 repetitions, one must question why this was part of his established routine or, alternatively, why he would be committing himself to a method of underachievement by using too low an amount of weight to stimulate the greatest strength gains possible.
To further demonstrate this below-average lower body strength, the estimated
130 pound maximum estimate would mean Lee was not prepared for plyometric training (a type of explosiveness exercise) which requires the ability to squat a minimum of 1.5 times the body weight (Allerheiligen, 1994).In other words, at an approximate body weight of 140 pounds, Lee would need to have squatted 210 pounds to engage in plyometric training based on recognized standards for training of athletes by today's standards.
Lee's upper body strength is another matter altogether and, when understood from a sport science perspective, partially explains his on-screen appeal. Once again, according to the program used during his 1965 stay in Hong Kong, Lee performed bicep curls using a weight of 80 pounds and 8 repetitions. This would equate to an estimated 1 repetition maximum of 110 pounds and would place him in the 100th percentile for the 121-140 pound weight class.From a training perspective, one must question how a discrepancy of this proportion, between his upper and lower body strength, evolved in Lee's training. Nevertheless, it demonstrates that his upper body strength was developed to its maximum potential.
Numerous observers of Bruce Lee, such as deceased Kenpo master Ed Parker, have stated Lee was perhaps the strongest "pound for pound" martial artist. Sport science can confirm this possibility. Numerous assessments of athletes throughout the past few decades have confirmed that smaller athletes are proportionately stronger than larger ones.This is due to the fact that a muscle's maximum contractile force is proportional to its cross-sectional area.In laymen's terms, this means that a smaller athlete has a higher strength to mass ratio than larger athletes.
Stated practically, as body size increases, body mass increases more rapidly than does muscle strength. In a colloquial sense, it could be said this is similar to the "law of diminishing returns." Certain martial art film stars such as Jean Claude Van Damme and Jeff Speakman may look better due to their mass, but their actual strength, in proportion to body weight, would be less than a relatively light person such as Lee.Incredible speed is inherent to superior strength at a low body weight.
Since Lee never weighed more than 143 pounds yet possessed superior upper body strength in the 100th percentile, this would account for the lightening speed he demonstrated on film. With more mass, he would not have been as fast and would not have appeared so on film.

II. Aerobic capacity.
Lee was known to advocate running as the best cardiovascular exercise (Lee, 1975) and is reported to have run 2 miles in 15 minutes or 6 miles in 45 minutes (Storm, 1986; Lee, 1989).In either case, this would mean an approximate pace of a 7 minute 30 second mile. This pace equates to a VO2 max of approximately 50 ml/kg/min (Noakes, 1991). The VO2 max is a method employed by sport scientists to estimate an individual's maximum capacity to use oxygen during extended exercise.
The average VO2 max among healthy young men is between 45 and 55. Lee's estimated value of 50, based on his running times, would place him squarely in the middle of average healthy young men. The values among elite runners and cross-country skiers is usually a range between 75 and 85 ml/kg/min. In other words, Lee's aerobic capacity was quite average. Once again, certain readers who are accustomed to viewing Lee in epic proportions may assert that Lee was not running his fastest and was capable of more. Considering his personality, if this were true it arguably would have been publicized somewhere.
In contrast to Lee's estimated aerobic capacity, a Canadian research study published in 1995 demonstrates that elite kickboxers possess a VO2 max of 62 (Zabukovec and Tiidus, 1995). In controlled laboratory measurements, elite kickboxers had recorded values of aerobic capacity that are comparable to a person who runs a 4:45 mile, or a 34 minute 10k foot race. It is a curious notion, therefore, that Lee was considered to be an aerobic phenomenon. Current elite kickboxing competitors register higher aerobic capacity than did Bruce Lee.

III.Personal Character.
The great karate master Gichin Funakoshi stated that martial artists should show great concern for family and relationships. "The mind of the true karateka should be imbued with (family) concern before he turns his attention to his body and the refinement of his technique" (Funakoshi, 1975).
In contrast, Lee is reported to have been involved in several extramarital affairs and, in fact, died in the apartment of a woman with whom he has intimately involved (Beeckler, 1996).
Lee also died without a will (intestate) which left his widow with almost a decade of legal battles to settle the matter of his estate. While some may argue that his early, unanticipated, death would have precluded finalizing a will, Lee was conscious enough of his own mortality that he purchased significant amounts of life insurance just months prior to his death.
And while Funakoshi admonishes martial artists to render honor to their families before refining themselves, when Bruce Lee did refine himself physically it was not in a wholly honorable fashion. In addition to the prescription medications Cortisone and Dilantin, he is also reported to have used anabolic steroids and diuretics to achieve his physique (Beeckler, 1996). It is also documented that he was a user of marijuana during the final three years of his life and it was discovered in his body during the autopsy.

Why the Best of the Best?
Bruce Lee did not compete in any sanctioned martial art events. He compiled no tournament record to demonstrate his ability as did other superstars of his generation such as Bill Wallace, Chuck Norris, Bob Wall or Mike Stone. Various anecdotes are reported regarding his superiority in street fights but is that a basis of considering anyone the best of the best in their respective sport or physical activity? Would the American public accept this reasoning if Pete Sampras said he was the best tennis player but refused to compete in Wimbledon? Or if Michael Jordan claimed to be the best basketball player but would only play in alleys and playgrounds, never on the professional hardwood court?
Today's martial athletes can demonstrate their abilities in an empirical
manner. For example, the IMPAX instrument records the total of punches and kicks delivered in a certain period of time and the total force of a strike or kick. The elite kick boxers surveyed in the earlier referenced study were objectively assessed regarding their aerobic and anaerobic capacity as well as maximum knee torque. In other words, the tools exist today to determine who is the best of the best among

martial artists. continued in next post

Now these are references....

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
continued from last post 🙂

For better or worse, Lee escaped objective evaluation.
It's tremendously subjective but Bruce Lee is arguably considered the most noteworthy martial artist due to his magnetism on film. Regardless of any opinion about his actual martial art talent, or lack of empirical
demonstration regarding his ability, he expressed himself on the screen in a manner that no martial artist has equaled. And, by combining his upper body strength and light body weight, he possessed uncanny speed that visually made believers of anyone who saw him in action.

Reassessing the Usefulness of the Bruce Lee Myth
In one sense, Lee is forever a tremendous asset to the martial art community as his image and myth draws people to the arts. These fledgling martial artists may then be retained for more noble and enduring reasons than a desire to emulate someone whose example is questionable upon closer examination.
Once a martial artist reviews the reality of Lee's strength, aerobic capacity and personal character, a sober question must be addressed: should Lee's myth be actively deconstructed among novice martial artists? Perhaps not. That may be a function of maturity and be better emphasized in the later stages of training and spiritual development within the arts. Instead, people need a visual image to connect to and, until they begin to see their own selves in growing competency, may need the myth of Bruce Lee to sustain their training efforts.

References

Lee, Linda (1989). The Bruce Lee Story. Ohara Publications, California. (70)

Wathen, Dan (1994). Load Assignment. In Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning. Human Kinetics, Illinois. (436)

Hatfield, Fredrick C., Ph. D. (1993). Fitness: The Complete Guide. International Sport Sciences Association, California. (119) .

Allerheiligen, William B. (1994). Speed Development and Plyometric Training. In Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning. Human Kinetics, Illinois. (321)

Lee, Bruce (1975). Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Ohara, Burbank, California. ( )

Storm, Mitch; Black Belt Magazine, The Editors (1986). The Legendary Bruce Lee. Ohara, Burbank, CA. (53)

Lee, Linda (1989). The Bruce Lee Story. Ohara Publications, California. (54)

Noakes, Timothy, M.D. (1991). The Lore of Running. Leisure Press, Champaign, Illinois. (42)

Tiidus, Peter M.; Zabukovec, Randy (1995). "Physiological and Anthropometric Profile of Elite Kickboxers". Journal of Strength and Conditioning research, (November) 240-242.

Funakoshi, Gichin (1975). Karate-Do: My Way of Life. Kodansha International, Tokyo, Japan. (102)

Beeckler, Tom (1996). Unsettled Matters: The Life and Death of Bruce Lee. Gilderoy Publications, Lompoc, California. (144; 182)

ABOUT THE AUTHOR: In addition to the martial arts, Mr. Hess is a licensed cycling coach who regularly works with successful endurance athletes with tiny vertical jumps. He is the author of Total Quality Martial Arts: Pathways to Continuous Improvement.

Lee sure was strong 🙂

Keep the faith 🙂

Stay Whirly 🤘

Bruce Lee, the man, the myth, the bullshit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgNg8yls4UA

In 1964, at a Karate tournament hosted by Ed Parker, Bruce demonstrated his abilities to a large audience... At Long Beach, with Taki Kimura as his assistant, he showed off his 2 finger press ups and his legendary one inch punch.
A noted television producer who was really impressed by Bruce's intensity and focus approached him and a screen test was arranged. This lead to his playing the role of Kato in the Green Hornet series which was filmed in 1965.
While filming this series, Bruce left Taki Kimura in charge of his kung fu school. Although the Green Hornet never really took off, it lasted for 30 half hour episodes. Bruce, surprisingly, as Kato became more popular than the main star, especially in Hong Kong.
In the documentary "Bruce Lee: The Martial Arts Master" Van Williams who was the main star of the Green Hornet recalls how Bruce used to run around the set practicing his kicks. "He would jump up and tap you on the ear with his foot, but this stopped when one of the extras turned around and got his jaw dislocated". During filming Bruce liked to work in close to improve the fight scenes, but he also injured quite a few stuntmen by doing this. The producers found it pretty hard to find stuntmen in the end. Bruce had to slow his movements down because on film, he was practically a blur and you couldn't see what he was doing properly!!

🙂

Originally posted by Stoic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgNg8yls4UA

In 1964, at a Karate tournament hosted by Ed Parker, Bruce demonstrated his abilities to a large audience... At Long Beach, with Taki Kimura as his assistant, he showed off his 2 finger press ups and his legendary one inch punch.
A noted television producer who was really impressed by Bruce's intensity and focus approached him and a screen test was arranged. This lead to his playing the role of Kato in the Green Hornet series which was filmed in 1965.
While filming this series, Bruce left Taki Kimura in charge of his kung fu school. Although the Green Hornet never really took off, it lasted for 30 half hour episodes. Bruce, surprisingly, as Kato became more popular than the main star, especially in Hong Kong.
In the documentary "Bruce Lee: The Martial Arts Master" Van Williams who was the main star of the Green Hornet recalls how Bruce used to run around the set practicing his kicks. "He would jump up and tap you on the ear with his foot, but this stopped when one of the extras turned around and got his jaw dislocated". During filming Bruce liked to work in close to improve the fight scenes, but he also injured quite a few stuntmen by doing this. The producers found it pretty hard to find stuntmen in the end. Bruce had to slow his movements down because on film, he was practically a blur and you couldn't see what he was doing properly!!

Yeah, the Ed Parker tournament, it's debunked somewhere between pages 60-85 as is this interview. This guys made up so much shit.

Might have been earlier than that, it was either Whirly or Smiley who found other people who'd seen another take on the tournament.

As for the other stuff, no doubt he looked good on film, so does Keanu Reeves. As for the slowing down film bullshit, Usain Bolts legs move faster, I can see he's legs when he runs.

Originally posted by Stoic
Bruce Lee wrote books on the subject. You may be able to find a pdf on his style. Once you read it, you will see why Ali would have never wanted to get into a fight with him. Not myth, but fact.

I own a few of his books btw. The only "proof" of his combat abilities is hearsay and theory, even in the books.

Originally posted by Stoic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgNg8yls4UA

In 1964, at a Karate tournament hosted by Ed Parker, Bruce demonstrated his abilities to a large audience... At Long Beach, with Taki Kimura as his assistant, he showed off his 2 finger press ups and his legendary one inch punch.
A noted television producer who was really impressed by Bruce's intensity and focus approached him and a screen test was arranged. This lead to his playing the role of Kato in the Green Hornet series which was filmed in 1965.
While filming this series, Bruce left Taki Kimura in charge of his kung fu school. Although the Green Hornet never really took off, it lasted for 30 half hour episodes. Bruce, surprisingly, as Kato became more popular than the main star, especially in Hong Kong.
In the documentary "Bruce Lee: The Martial Arts Master" Van Williams who was the main star of the Green Hornet recalls how Bruce used to run around the set practicing his kicks. "He would jump up and tap you on the ear with his foot, but this stopped when one of the extras turned around and got his jaw dislocated". During filming Bruce liked to work in close to improve the fight scenes, but he also injured quite a few stuntmen by doing this. The producers found it pretty hard to find stuntmen in the end. Bruce had to slow his movements down because on film, he was practically a blur and you couldn't see what he was doing properly!!

Originally posted by StyleTime
Like I thought. No proof.

I own several of his books btw. There is absolutely no proof of his abilities anywhere in them apart from hearsay and theory.

Exactly, no proof now as in years ago in this thread. Still the same as it ever was ST.

Originally posted by The Lone Poster
🙂

Yeah, the Ed Parker tournament, it's debunked somewhere between pages 60-85 as is this interview. This guys made up so much shit.

Might have been earlier than that, it was either Whirly or Smiley who found other people who'd seen another take on the tournament.

As for the other stuff, no doubt he looked good on film, so does Keanu Reeves. As for the slowing down film bullshit, Usain Bolts legs move faster, I can see he's legs when he runs.

The post that you continue to quote has little to do with the OP. In fact it just seems to be a way of criticizing Bruce's life. How does this prove that he was not a deadly fighter? How does this prove that Ali would even be able to compete with this level of fighting? All of that shit that was referenced could be lies, or half truths? Instead of believing everything that that post says, why don't you cross examine it? The idea that Bruce Lee could move as fast as he could, and punch holes in walls with his fingers, or do push ups on two fingers should make anyone realize that he had underwent a vast amount of physical conditioning. before you just decide to go with any old post used to discredit another, perhaps you should look at other angles to get a clearer picture.

Originally posted by Stoic
The post that you continue to quote has little to do with the OP. In fact it just seems to be a way of criticizing Bruce's life. How does this prove that he was not a deadly fighter? How does this prove that Ali would even be able to compete with this level of fighting? All of that shit that was referenced could be lies, or half truths? Instead of believing everything that that post says, why don't you cross examine it? The idea that Bruce Lee could move as fast as he could, and punch holes in walls with his fingers, or do push ups on two fingers should make anyone realize that he had underwent a vast amount of physical conditioning. before you just decide to go with any old post used to discredit another, perhaps you should look at other angles to get a clearer picture.

They are multiple posts, they show in different ways, the same thing, the same thing your posts show; Put simply no real evidence Lee did anything exists and many of the things attributed are lies and exaggerations. Like his strength etc.

Was Bruce Lee a fake master?

1.He used kicks to the head. If he did not use them (like some people claim) he would not train for them. Kicks to the head CAN be very effective, especially roundhouse kicks. I have seen hundreds of fights. I haven’t seen anyone take a good roundhouse kick to the head and not go down. Even a tough fighter like Don Frye could not survive against a good roundhouse kick thrown to him by Jerome Le Banner.
2. He was one of the first to use boxing training methods and protective equipment in sparring.
3. He explained why a technique is effective before he taught it. Back then, in other martial arts, you either accepted tradition or you were out of the school.
4. He trained his punches and kicks against live targets (like focus gloves) or against the fearsome body bag. The noise of a snapping gi was not enough for him. He had to know that his attacks were effective.
5. He was the first martial arts master that stressed the importance of a cardiovascular workout. He was really tired of seeing big-bellied masters that would not last a single round against a boxer in a ring. For Bruce, the best kind of endurance and cardiovascular training was running.
6. Most martial arts make a common mistake in their training. They train their students against attacks that are used in a stiff and robot-like manner. No enemy ever attacks like that. And you can be sure that most attackers will not attack you with a reverse punch or using a traditional martial arts move. Bruce trained his students against boxing punches and tae kwon do kicks.
The list can go on forever. Bruce Lee contributed a lot to martial arts. Some can argue that he was just a man but in the end isn’t everyone? He will be in our hearts forever. Bruce Lee is considered by our website the greatest martial artist of the 20th century and no one can change our minds.

Quoted from this site

http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/brucelee/master.htm

Bruce Lee's physical feats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXP6trDByRQ

Jackie Chan's interview on Bruce Lee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=XK2mW8C-sB4

Someone posted that site before, and I've read through it myself.

Unfortunately, none of that is actually proof of anything. It's just someone theorizing about what Lee may or may not be capable of.

Mentioning Jerome Le Banner's high kick like it means anything about Bruce Lee's high kick is hilarious though. Le Banner is a K-1 superstar with a verifiable fight record. Bruce Lee is an actor. Also, several fighters are well known for their ability to shrug off hard attacks. Look up Nick Diaz or Mark Hunt.

Edit: The same applies for the videos. They aren't proof of anything on their own.

Exactly ST.

Yeah, it's a nice epitaph Stoic. Sadly though it's still just anecdote and fan opinion. Don't get me wrong, he was a charismatic film star. Again though like ST said, all you're showing is anecdote and fan opinion and like him I'm suprised you can't see that.

It's not as if you don't see this with your own eyes. if he was full of smoke and mirrors that footage would never exist. I suppose if you saw an elephant in your living room you would need proof that it was really there?