Originally posted by Stoic
It's not as if you don't see this with your own eyes. if he was full of smoke and mirrors that footage would never exist. I suppose if you saw an elephant in your living room you would need proof that it was really there?
Being a great fighter makes one a great fighter. For all this supposed "evidence" of Bruce's abilities, you haven't posted one video that actually shows him fighting.
You're saying "elephant in the room" as if you've actually provided the "elephant."
Originally posted by Stoic
How does this make Ali a better fighter than Bruce Lee? Ali as I mentioned was a 1 dimensional fighter. Wasn't there footage of Ali standing in the ring with Bruce, and not wanting to engage him?
No, there wasn't any footage like that, more BL FANtasy.
One dimensional, yeah, if you mean he had proven boxing and grappling skills and won fights which people saw. weighed almost twice as much as Lee, had just about the best boxing footwork ever. Was so skilled he was Olympic Champion as well as world pro champion. Beat Frazier who would also kill Lee, in a fight outside the ring captured on screen etc.
Originally posted by Stoic
How does this make Ali a better fighter than Bruce Lee? Ali as I mentioned was a 1 dimensional fighter. Wasn't there footage of Ali standing in the ring with Bruce, and not wanting to engage him?
Being 1-dimensional would hurt Ali against Georges St. Pierre but it matters little against Bruce. Bruce never demonstrated that he could capitalize on Ali's shortcomings or engage Ali standing.
If you've got proof otherwise, you're welcome to share.
*You're in the comics vs forum, so this shouldn't be new to you. You've essentially made a claim and don't have the scans to prove it.
Can you see him? Is that all mirrors and smoke in a time that visual effects were primitive?
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/92068/bruce_lee_catch_his_speed_if_u_can/
Yeah, some board breaking forms and semi contact, wing chun rolling hands and demo shit. I've seen faster at a local club tbh and with a lot more power.
This shit is real :-)
Originally posted by The Lone Poster
Yeah, some board breaking forms and semi contact, wing chun rolling hands and demo shit. I've seen faster at a local club tbh and with a lot more power.This shit is real :-)
Have you ever taken a form of martial arts? This is a serious question, because if you did, you would know that in a no holds barred conflict, that most punchers can easily have their elbow dislocated by one block. Power is not everything. In actuality, the more power a puncher can exhibit the worse the extended arm would be dislocated. I actually took judo for several years, and took wing chun kung fu. What you see in those videos may not be what a practitioner of the style may see.
Originally posted by Stoic
Have you ever taken a form of martial arts? This is a serious question, because if you did, you would know that in a no holds barred conflict, that most punchers can easily have their elbow dislocated by one block. Power is not everything. In actuality, the more power a puncher can exhibit the worse the extended arm would be dislocated. I actually took judo for several years, and took wing chun kung fu. What you see in those videos may not be what a practitioner of the style may see.
Hahahaha, it's much more likely you'll break a wrist from punching the face. That said if you know what you're doing you won't. A bigger person will always beat a smaller person with the same skill. It's why we have weight divisions in all combat styles, e.g. Why David Haye was dominant a weight lower. You get exceptions like Holyfield and Coutre who can hold there own, eventually though, they find size and power matters. Try your Wing Chun at the local boxing club, trust me you won't enjoy the result. Judo is different, it works, however a heavyweight at Judo uses his weight and will destroy a smaller fighter of the same skill level, despite ironically being far more of a sport.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ui6rj58DA0
If you look at this demonstration, and compare it to any of Bruce's videos you will see the same style origins with the exception of foot placement. Ali would not know how to deal with this type of fighting style, but Bruce Lee who actually studied Ali's style would be very well aware of how to deal with his style. This is where Ali's weakness would be exploited. Size means nothing. I challenge you to take 40 pounds and let your friend throw it at your face hitting you in a nerve cluster. If you laugh it off, then you have a point that size means everything when talking about this level of proficiency. Bruce studied the human anatomy, as well as the physical limits of the human body. Ali was just a very very good boxer.
Originally posted by The Lone Poster
Hahahaha, it's much more likely you'll break a wrist from punching the face. That said if you know what you're doing you won't. A bigger person will always beat a smaller person with the same skill. It's why we have weight divisions in all combat styles, e.g. Why David Haye was dominant a weight lower. You get exceptions like Holyfield and Coutre who can hold there own, eventually though, they find size and power matters. Try your Wing Chun at the local boxing club, trust me you won't enjoy the result. Judo is different, it works, however a heavyweight at Judo uses his weight and will destroy a smaller fighter of the same skill level, despite ironically being far more of a sport.
This would be correct if Bruce Lee stood there and boxed with Ali. However Bruce has more tools to use than Ali. He was also better conditioned than Ali, and worked out more hours in a day than Ali typically worked out in a week. No offense but your post shows me that you likely watch a lot of MMA, and may have never trained intensely in a form of martial arts. Is this correct, or do you have years of training?
Originally posted by Stoic
This would be correct if Bruce Lee stood there and boxed with Ali. However Bruce has more tools to use than Ali. He was also better conditioned than Ali, and worked out more hours in a day than Ali typically worked out in a week. No offense but your post shows me that you likely watch a lot of MMA, and may have never trained intensely in a form of martial arts. Is this correct, or do you have years of training?
I am not getting into ecredentials, I have trained in half a dozen martial arts for more than 20 years, on and off. Mostly boxing and Muay Thai and I've visited Thailand and trained in Phuket and Bangkok. I have also done Tai Kwon Do, Karate, Judo and Jui Jitsu. Good enough? Yes, I also watch and enjoy MMA and Boxing.
Which all means nothing tbh in the context of this thread.
Originally posted by StyleTime
May we see a video where Bruce actually applies any of these techniques you keep talking about? Could we see some proof that Lee worked out more than Ali?You keep operating on theory dude. "Well, Bruce could do this even though he's never shown the ability to do so in a fight."
I posted the videos earlier. You need to look at both styles and see their similarities. Me and many of my training partners can see this because of a trained eye. It's up to you to believe what I am about to say. What I saw was real in terms of the moves that I saw in those videos of Bruce Lee, and can not be faked. If I were to give Bruce a level of proficiency in the form of how many years of experience he had, or give him a title, I would say at the very least that he obtained 20 plus years of kung fu experience, and call him Grand Master. I took wing chun for 14 years, and I'm not a slouch at the style. This is up to you to believe me if you want. By all means show another student of the style the same footage that I posted, and look at their reactions, and then ask them if it was smoke and mirrors.
Originally posted by Stoic
I posted the videos earlier. You need to look at both styles and see their similarities. Me and many of my training partners can see this because of a trained eye. It's up to you to believe what I am about to say. What I saw was real in terms of the moves that I saw in those videos of Bruce Lee, and can not be faked. If I were to give Bruce a level of proficiency in the form of how many years of experience he had, or give him a title, I would say at the very least that he obtained 20 plus years of kung fu experience, and call him Grand Master. I took wing chun for 14 years, and I'm not a slouch at the style. This is up to you to believe me if you want. By all means show another student of the style the same footage that I posted, and look at their reactions, and then ask them if it was smoke and mirrors.
It's semi contact tip tap shit in those videos except for the board breaking and board breaking is a trick really.
Originally posted by The Lone Poster
It's semi contact tip tap shit in those videos except for the board breaking and board breaking is a trick really.
Tip tap shit huh? Pak sao blocks as you know are soft grappling techniques. Here's a site with more info on what you saw as tip tap shit.
Originally posted by Stoic
Tip tap shit huh? Pak sao blocks as you know are soft grappling techniques. Here's a site with more info on what you saw as tip tap shit.
I'll be honest my opinion of Kung Fu is very poor. In the early nineties in sport Karate tournaments people used to laugh at Wing Chun and Wu Shu styles, because they were so hopeless. It's my personal experience which again counts for nothing in this thread as we want some evidence Lee had a fight; however, it is my personal experience Kung Fu is hot air. I love things like the Shaolin Monks Wheel of life and watched it when it visited the U.K. about 10 years ago, they are the cirque desoleil (spelling) of Martial Arts. If I had to put money on a Shaolin Monk or a Pro Thai Boxer of the same bodyweight in a street fight, I'd bet against the monk every time.
Originally posted by The Lone Poster
I'll be honest my opinion of Kung Fu is very poor. In the early nineties in sport Karate tournaments people used to laugh at Wing Chun and Wu Shu styles, because they were so hopeless. It's my personal experience which again counts for nothing in this thread as we want some evidence Lee had a fight; however, it is my personal experience Kung Fu is hot air. I love things like the Shaolin Monks Wheel of life and watched it when it visited the U.K. about 10 years ago, they are the cirque desoleil (spelling) of Martial Arts. If I had to put money on a Shaolin Monk or a Pro Thai Boxer of the same bodyweight in a street fight, I'd bet against the monk every time.
Tell me. What is the hardest punch to block?