Children seem to know nothing about physics... Ali is much bigger..at least by 110lbs he's stronger almost as fast and is in all respects a genius when it comes to fighting... You're not going to tell me that a 120lbs guy is going to beat a TRAINED 225lb guy it's just not logically...
Out of the Ring it goes to ali ....
Pyshics is'nt limited to weight vs. weight. There is also pounds of pressure, location, distance,leverage, timing. There are also other factors to include as well. Is the fighter under emotional stress? Did he just break up with a girlfriend? Hell, you could even include what the fighter ate for breakfast. There is even a probable situation where I could beat bruce lee.
Consider a handgun. It weighs much less than Bruce Lee or Ali. Which deals more damage?
Real fights are'nt about fairness.
So tell me, what do you know about physics?
Originally posted by jerlark386
Pyshics is'nt limited to weight vs. weight. There is also pounds of pressure, location, distance,leverage, timing. There are also other factors to include as well. Is the fighter under emotional stress? Did he just break up with a girlfriend? Hell, you could even include what the fighter ate for breakfast. There is even a probable situation where I could beat bruce lee.Consider a handgun. It weighs much less than Bruce Lee or Ali. Which deals more damage?
Real fights are'nt about fairness.
So tell me, what do you know about physics?
Although, Ali would still win
Originally posted by jerlark386
Pyshics is'nt limited to weight vs. weight. There is also pounds of pressure, location, distance,leverage, timing. There are also other factors to include as well. Is the fighter under emotional stress? Did he just break up with a girlfriend? Hell, you could even include what the fighter ate for breakfast. There is even a probable situation where I could beat bruce lee.Consider a handgun. It weighs much less than Bruce Lee or Ali. Which deals more damage?
Real fights are'nt about fairness.
So tell me, what do you know about physics?
have a look about 20 or 330 pages back 🙂
Gunpowder and projectile ballistics has what to do with punching - I explained th differences in the nature of Martial Arts strikes and Boxing Punches 3 times in great detail in this thread.
Ali hits harder.
dragged up for people that don't read back
Originally posted by Whurlysplat
Of course a very small man would beat the champion of the world. Martial arts punching has no power, it can break boards but its actual force is limited. Lees kicking reach is probably less than Ali's reach and Ali has 40 odd pounds on him at least.Problems with martial arts strikes. Most people think because boxers don't break boards that they do not hit as hard.
A martial artist will tell you that 4 elements are involved
1) Equilibrium (Balance)
2) Breath Control
3) Reaction Force
4) Concentration
To translate that in to the real world we need Science 😄
Physics 101 coming up
Force = Mass x Velocity2
In other words, force is accumulated in the form of speed, and at the end of the movement, speed is converted into striking force.
But were does the fourth element (concentration) come into play?
The concentration aspect of power, is not one of mind, but of area. As we concentrate that force into a smaller area, the power is increases proportionately. It is like putting a small nozzle on a garden hose... the stream of water exiting the hole is much more powerful than if we just let the water flow without. OR if you look at it from the other direction... a 200lb man standing on thin ice wearing skis... He does not fall through the ice because his weight is dispersed over a large area..
And finally the element called "Reaction Force"
Reaction Force is a very important factor in two ways... In the first way Velocity is affected. i.e. If a car traveling 50mph crashes head on into another car traveling 50 mph, the combined velocity is 100mph. Same is true with a punch or kick... If your opponent is moving in on you when you through your punch, the speed of the punch increased due to the advancement of your aggressor. This is good to know, but reaction force plays an even greater role in our power.
Newton's Law states, "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". In the martial arts, we are constantly retracting one hand to our belt as we send the other one out in a punch. The resulting reaction-force is passed on through the body and arm to the striking hand. In an even more complex fashion, when the hand actually strikes the target, the shock of the blow is passed through the body to the legs to the floor and then is reversed back to the punching hand, adding further force to the blow.
So often in the arts you hear, that size doesn't matter. We demonstrate this with a little person throwing a big person to the ground. But does size matter in breaking? It is my opinion that YES it does, but it can be overcome with the increased speed that smaller people often poses.
The faster you punch, the smaller the area you make contact with, and how fast you pull that hand back after the strike, are bigger factors in the break than size or "Mass".
So Why don't Boxers break Boards? In Mr Lees own immortal words
"Boards do not fight back"Of course, the best boxers can punch as quickly and powerfully as any black belt. Why can't they break concrete blocks too? The answer lies in the nature of their punches. When a boxer throws his fist, he usually ends the movement with follow-through. This gives the punch maximum momentum (golf and tennis players follow through for the same reason), and it can help knock an opponent down. But the impact itself is diffuse: It's meant to jar an opponent's brain, not break a board.
So why are martial arts strikes crap?
Solid as they seem, all materials are at least slightly elastic. Whack them in the right spot and they will start to oscillate. A punch with a follow-through would dampen such oscillations, but a karate chop, by pulling away at the last moment, lets them move freely. If you tweak a rubber band it goes up and down, and the same is true if you tweak a board or a brick with a much greater force. When they reach their elastic limits, they start to yield. In other words, they break.
Fortunately for most of us, reaching that limit in bones is no easy matter. Bone can withstand 40 times more force than concrete, and a cylinder of bone less than an inch in diameter and 21Ú3 inches long can withstand a force of more than 25,000 newtons. Hands and feet can withstand even more than that, because their skin, muscles, ligaments, tendons, and cartilage absorb a great deal of impact. As a result, a well-kicked foot can absorb about 2,000 times as much force as concrete before breaking.
So Martial artists strikes are effective at Breaking boards but to break bones you need force (unless your very lucky) a martial arts strike simply cannot deliver.
However the momentum from a Boxers punch which actually generate more force. if you wish I will explain why in another post.
For this reason alone Ali will knock Lees block off 😆
I hope this ends the Argument to everyones satisfaction 😄
Keep the faith 🤘
Stay Whirly 🙂
OK. Been doing martial arts for over 20 years, and I LOVE Muhammad Ali. As a boxer! He is probably the best fighter heavyweight fighter since Jack Johnson INSIDE THE RING. But Bruce Lee was not overrated. He had to slow down his techniques for his films so that the camera could catch them. He was fast and strong, very well trained, and he held himself to a very high standard.
Mass times speed equals power, and Bruce could move faster than Casius. His speed at least makes up for the mass difference. Yes, he is a lot smaller, but if you can't hit him then your hitting power doesn't matter. Plus, the faster he is the stronger he hits. And it's not like he was out of shape. The guy worked out constantly. Have you seen pictures of him with his shirt off?!
Yes, Ali trained to be in shape for 15 rounds. But real fights don't take place over 45 minutes with 1 minute breaks every 3 minutes. Lee trained to fight for his life. Ali trained to be the best boxer in the world. With boxing rules in effect, Ali would have won. However, if we're talking man-to-man, I have to bet on the person who trained to be the best at fighting, not the person who trained to be the best at the sweet science.
Originally posted by Groucho
OK. Been doing martial arts for over 20 years, and I LOVE Muhammad Ali. As a boxer! He is probably the best fighter heavyweight fighter since Jack Johnson INSIDE THE RING. But Bruce Lee was not overrated. He had to slow down his techniques for his films so that the camera could catch them. He was fast and strong, very well trained, and he held himself to a very high standard.Mass times speed equals power, and Bruce could move faster than Casius. His speed at least makes up for the mass difference. Yes, he is a lot smaller, but if you can't hit him then your hitting power doesn't matter. Plus, the faster he is the stronger he hits. And it's not like he was out of shape. The guy worked out constantly. Have you seen pictures of him with his shirt off?!
Yes, Ali trained to be in shape for 15 rounds. But real fights don't take place over 45 minutes with 1 minute breaks every 3 minutes. Lee trained to fight for his life. Ali trained to be the best boxer in the world. With boxing rules in effect, Ali would have won. However, if we're talking man-to-man, I have to bet on the person who trained to be the best at fighting, not the person who trained to be the best at the sweet science.
That last paragraph didn't make any sense
And if Ali is so strong how come he took a bullet and is now dead?
Originally posted by Groucho
OK. Been doing martial arts for over 20 years, and I LOVE Muhammad Ali. As a boxer! He is probably the best fighter heavyweight fighter since Jack Johnson INSIDE THE RING. But Bruce Lee was not overrated. He had to slow down his techniques for his films so that the camera could catch them. He was fast and strong, very well trained, and he held himself to a very high standard.Mass times speed equals power, and Bruce could move faster than Casius. His speed at least makes up for the mass difference. Yes, he is a lot smaller, but if you can't hit him then your hitting power doesn't matter. Plus, the faster he is the stronger he hits. And it's not like he was out of shape. The guy worked out constantly. Have you seen pictures of him with his shirt off?!
Yes, Ali trained to be in shape for 15 rounds. But real fights don't take place over 45 minutes with 1 minute breaks every 3 minutes. Lee trained to fight for his life. Ali trained to be the best boxer in the world. With boxing rules in effect, Ali would have won. However, if we're talking man-to-man, I have to bet on the person who trained to be the best at fighting, not the person who trained to be the best at the sweet science.
I totally agree with you. 🙂
I 've done boxing for 7 years at club level now and get into a lot of real life scraps at work and I think both arts(boxing and kung-fu) are useful in real fights. Everyone goes on about martial arts but no-one punches harder than a well trained boxer.Ali took Foreman and Frazier's best and they were heavyweights who punched equally many times their weight as Bruce did his. Lee may be able to punch AMAZINGLY hard for his size but so did they and were 210lbs and 225lbs respectively. Of course Lee has two extra things to hit with(legs) but he still only throws one strike at a time. Lee would prob have a slight ( AND I MEAN SLIGHT!!) speed advantage but Ali has a huge reach advantage (armsanyway) Close call but I'm going with the greatest to win 51-49 (best out of 100) because that's how close it is. Ali's endurance and chin was tested in RING WARS, not demonstrations and films.
PRIME TYSON beats 'em both IMO!! Ali backed off faster than anyone ever could while still throwing punches but TYSON came forward faster than anyone and in his prime he simply couldn't be hit, not forgetting he threw bombs!!
Originally posted by snoochyboochies
I 've done boxing for 7 years at club level now and get into a lot of real life scraps at work and I think both arts(boxing and kung-fu) are useful in real fights. Everyone goes on about martial arts but no-one punches harder than a well trained boxer.
Tell them Snoochy
Originally posted by snoochyboochies
I 've done boxing for 7 years at club level now and get into a lot of real life scraps at work and I think both arts(boxing and kung-fu) are useful in real fights. Everyone goes on about martial arts but no-one punches harder than a well trained boxer.Ali took Foreman and Frazier's best and they were heavyweights who punched equally many times their weight as Bruce did his. Lee may be able to punch AMAZINGLY hard for his size but so did they and were 210lbs and 225lbs respectively. Of course Lee has two extra things to hit with(legs) but he still only throws one strike at a time. Lee would prob have a slight ( AND I MEAN SLIGHT!!) speed advantage but Ali has a huge reach advantage (armsanyway) Close call but I'm going with the greatest to win 51-49 (best out of 100) because that's how close it is. Ali's endurance and chin was tested in RING WARS, not demonstrations and films.PRIME TYSON beats 'em both IMO!! Ali backed off faster than anyone ever could while still throwing punches but TYSON came forward faster than anyone and in his prime he simply couldn't be hit, not forgetting he threw bombs!!
and in my opinion Lennox Lewis beats Tyson and Chuck Liddell beats them all 🙂