Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
I doubt that "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" philosophy along with the rope-a-dope would fly against Bruce Lee's jeet kun do
😂 So tell me what you think Bruce will do I am fascinated.
How much power do you think his strikes have?
How strong and fast do you think he is?
Bruce Lee would be a smaller target than what Ali would be used to. Most of boxing is upper body defence as well, they don't focus on protecting the legs because boxers never hit below the waist.
I'm sure Lee could easily do a simple leg sweep and knock Ali off balance. Balance is key to winning a fight, you couldn't win if you keep falling over.
Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
😂 So tell me what you think Bruce will do I am fascinated.
How much power do you think his strikes have?
How strong and fast do you think he is?
Concidering his 1 inch punch could knock a man over...
and his flying kicks can send a guy flying....
I haven't seen ali do anything to rival that...
Do you honestly think that Ali is as skilled a fighter as bruce?
He wouldn't even know how to use his legs in a fight!
I see 🙂
From when I could be bothered 🙂
Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
Of course a very small man would beat the champion of the world. Martial arts punching has no power, it can break boards but its actual force is limited. Lees kicking reach is probably less than Ali's arm reach and Ali has 40 odd pounds on him at least.Problems with martial arts strikes. Most people think because boxers don't break boards that they do not hit as hard.
A martial artist will tell you that 4 elements are involved
1) Equilibrium (Balance)
2) Breath Control
3) Reaction Force
4) Concentration
To translate that in to the real world we need Science 😄
Physics 101 coming up
Force = Mass x Velocity2
In other words, force is accumulated in the form of speed, and at the end of the movement, speed is converted into striking force.
But were does the fourth element (concentration) come into play?
The concentration aspect of power, is not one of mind, but of area. As we concentrate that force into a smaller area, the power is increases proportionately. It is like putting a small nozzle on a garden hose... the stream of water exiting the hole is much more powerful than if we just let the water flow without. OR if you look at it from the other direction... a 200lb man standing on thin ice wearing skis... He does not fall through the ice because his weight is dispersed over a large area..
And finally the element called "Reaction Force"
Reaction Force is a very important factor in two ways... In the first way Velocity is affected. i.e. If a car traveling 50mph crashes head on into another car traveling 50 mph, the combined velocity is 100mph. Same is true with a punch or kick... If your opponent is moving in on you when you through your punch, the speed of the punch increased due to the advancement of your aggressor. This is good to know, but reaction force plays an even greater role in our power.
Newton's Law states, "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". In the martial arts, we are constantly retracting one hand to our belt as we send the other one out in a punch. The resulting reaction-force is passed on through the body and arm to the striking hand. In an even more complex fashion, when the hand actually strikes the target, the shock of the blow is passed through the body to the legs to the floor and then is reversed back to the punching hand, adding further force to the blow.
So often in the arts you hear, that size doesn't matter. We demonstrate this with a little person throwing a big person to the ground. But does size matter in breaking? It is my opinion that YES it does, but it can be overcome with the increased speed that smaller people often poses.
The faster you punch, the smaller the area you make contact with, and how fast you pull that hand back after the strike, are bigger factors in the break than size or "Mass".
So Why don't Boxers break Boards? In Mr Lees own immortal words
"Boards do not fight back"Of course, the best boxers can punch as quickly and powerfully as any black belt. Why can't they break concrete blocks too? The answer lies in the nature of their punches. When a boxer throws his fist, he usually ends the movement with follow-through. This gives the punch maximum momentum (golf and tennis players follow through for the same reason), and it can help knock an opponent down. But the impact itself is diffuse: It's meant to jar an opponent's brain, not break a board.
So why are martial arts strikes crap?
Solid as they seem, all materials are at least slightly elastic. Whack them in the right spot and they will start to oscillate. A punch with a follow-through would dampen such oscillations, but a karate chop, by pulling away at the last moment, lets them move freely. If you tweak a rubber band it goes up and down, and the same is true if you tweak a board or a brick with a much greater force. When they reach their elastic limits, they start to yield. In other words, they break.
Fortunately for most of us, reaching that limit in bones is no easy matter. Bone can withstand 40 times more force than concrete, and a cylinder of bone less than an inch in diameter and 21Ú3 inches long can withstand a force of more than 25,000 newtons. Hands and feet can withstand even more than that, because their skin, muscles, ligaments, tendons, and cartilage absorb a great deal of impact. As a result, a well-kicked foot can absorb about 2,000 times as much force as concrete before breaking.
So Martial artists strikes are effective at Breaking boards but to break bones you need force (unless your very lucky) a martial arts strike simply cannot deliver.
However the momentum from a Boxers punch which actually generates more force. if you wish I will explain why in another post.
For this reason alone Ali will knock Lees block off 😆
I hope this ends the Argument to everyones satisfaction 😄
Keep the faith 🤘
Stay Whirly 🙂
Now the one inch punch is pretty funny 🙂 I will look for (Mr Smileys) nothing to do with me's post on that 🙂
and his fascinating criticisms of Lees training methods including a video link 🙂
Yup thats a great speech there... All it did was criticise breaking of boards... total yawnfest.....
Bruce is far more skilled then Ali... Sure hes got some 40 pounds on him.. But as any great fighter will tell you Ali never beat heaver guys with his power.. He beat them with skill
"For this reason alone Bruce will knock Ali's block off
I hope this ends the Argument to everyones satisfaction "
"Keep on dreaming, Stay whirly"
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Yup thats a great speech there... All it did was criticise breaking of boards... total yawnfest.....Bruce is far more skilled then Ali... Sure hes got some 40 pounds on him.. But as any great fighter will tell you Ali never beat heaver guys with his power.. He beat them with skill
"For this reason alone Bruce will knock Ali's block off
I hope this ends the Argument to everyones satisfaction "
"Keep on dreaming, Stay whirly"
Can you tell us about Lees real fights 😖hifty: Not the ones from the film Dragon that never happened 🙂
Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
The one inch punch works using speed generated due to the snap at the elbow and elongation of the arm as the fist is closed, it generates its power as the body weight is at the same time brought forward. Its no real mystery and a bit of a joke really. 😄🙄 Keep the faith 😄
An old post of mine
Originally posted by KharmaDog
Well, I disagree that he is the greatest martial artist of all time. However, that is not what is in dispute right now. Being a great marshal artist, does not by definition make you capable of beating a world champion boxer with the size, speed and power of Ali.If you are not willing to read an argument contrary to yours, that by and large puts forth a better argument than you could, on the basis that it is too long and you lack the attention span, then don't bother arguing. By that statement you give the perception that you are either too lazy to read, or that you have been bested in a dispute and have no defense other than the, "I'm not listening, I'm not listening" defense so popular in the early grade school years.
@F1 - I read the article that you posted, and it did nothing to further your point. Fa-jing is like someone's "chi" an energy perceived by others, but by no means a measurable physical characteristic. We are talking about physical capability, not mystical mumbo jumbo.
An old post of Khamas
Originally posted by mr.smiley
I''ve herd lee even said Ali would take him.Ali was one of Lees heroes
An interesting post backed up later in the thread
Originally posted by mr.smiley
The sad fact is,the UFC showed the rest of the world what those in Brazil had known for years.The martial arts had always been shown as the striking arts.Bruce had minimal ground work(today it would be considered less than basic).That's one reason why Ron Van Clief had such trouble making the transistion.Martial Artist had very rarely had actual Vale Tudo type fighting until the early 90's.Arts such as Ninjitsu that had been thought of as dangerous where quickly neutralized by fighters trained in kick boxing and Brazilan Jiu jitsu.That being said,Muhhamad Ali was a boxer,who on a regular bases had fought others.Lee on the other had has a sketchy fighting backround and is more know for movies and stories of legend,as opposed to any fighting truth.
and finally how tough Lee was the
Originally posted by mr.smiley
here's a cool link.Not about the two fighting,but just about Lee misconceptions
😂
Theirs lots more real proof if you read this thread 🙂
All Lees fans have nothing but stories🙂
Keep the faith 🙂
Stay Whirly 🤘
Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
Can you tell us about Lees real fights 😖hifty: Not the ones from the film Dragon that never happened 🙂
His fights weren't filmed for audiences and I haven't been able to find many recorded instances of him fighting... The only fight documented is of him fighting a guy, who he made submit in 3 rounds. Its been said he was never defeated since the age of 14... although alot of people tried.
This is the guy who was told to slow down for the cameras as they couldn't see his movement... Who could knock someone down from 1inch... and was in the top 100% percentile for strength in his weight class...
Do you think ali is a more skilled fighter then bruce? Considering he was all about floating like a butterfly... Bruce won a Cha-cha contest, I think bruce would be ample at floating...
Edit Nice link there whirly! 😂
How can you laught off the one inch punch?
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Concidering his 1 inch punch could knock a man over...
and his flying kicks can send a guy flying....I haven't seen ali do anything to rival that...
Do you honestly think that Ali is as skilled a fighter as bruce?
He wouldn't even know how to use his legs in a fight!
53 wins
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
His fights weren't filmed for audiences and I haven't been able to find many recorded instances of him fighting... The only fight documented is of him fighting a guy, who he made submit in 3 rounds. Its been said he was never defeated since the age of 14... although alot of people tried.This is the guy who was told to slow down for the cameras as they couldn't see his movement... Who could knock someone down from 1inch... and was in the top 100% percentile for strength in his weight class...
Do you think ali is a more skilled fighter then bruce? Considering he was all about floating like a butterfly... Bruce won a Cha-cha contest, I think bruce would be ample at floating...
Edit Nice link there whirly! 😂
How can you laught off the one inch punch?
like this
Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
The one inch punch works using speed generated due to the snap at the elbow and elongation of the arm as the fist is closed, it generates its power as the body weight is at the same time brought forward. Its no real mystery and a bit of a joke really. 😄🙄 Keep the faith 😄
Its a joke 😂
Lee beat up loads of extras, Often giving them three punches to knock him out of a circle, when they failed he put them down in one...
You try doing the 1 inch punch whirly... You laugh it off like anyone could do it.. But I doubt Ali could do it..
Why don't you do us a favour and find one Lee fight thats documented on the internet!
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Lee beat up loads of extras, Often giving them three punches to knock him out of a circle, when they failed he put them down in one...You try doing the 1 inch punch whirly... You laugh it off like anyone could do it.. But I doubt Ali could do it..
Why don't you do us a favour and find one Lee fight thats documented on the internet!
The one inch punch has been explained - you used to in the 70's be able to send away and get a little leaflet that showed you how to do it 🙂 if you have any comics from then look at the adds - Lees Tao of Jeet Kun Do was even funnier 🙂
Its a joke - you won't find a real Lee fight with evidence because none exist.
The nearest you'll get is the sparring session with Chuck Norris where Lee admits afterwards Chuck could have beaten him anytime he wanted.