Muhammad Ali or Bruce Lee?

Started by Hit_and_Miss163 pages
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
It's a bit sad really you believe your funny squats work as well as weights.

I've see your pic... And if thats what weights do... Erm I'll stick to squats..

Its not about muscel mass to me, I wanted more energy.. Thats what the book was talking about.. so I gave it ago...

I'll ignore all the spam you just did, All got comments before... But it is a breach of the KMC rules.. Those same rules you moaned about in a 15 pg thread...

Whats with back patting the people who write bashing comments?? In my book thats just like writing the comments yourself! Do my posts get to you that bad that you have to resort to bashing me as a counter???

Really whirly... Don't you have better things todo then being a broken record???

:)

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Bruce Lee Plagiarist 😂 more Lee Fakery

http://www.martialdirect.com/articles/bruceleept1.htm

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"...It is a constant, rapid shifting of ground, seeking the slightest closing which will greatly increase the chances of hitting the opponent."

Sports Illustrated: Book of Fencing

"It is a constant rapid shifting of ground, seeking the slight closing of distance, which will greatly increase the chances of hitting the opponent."

Most JKD people are aware that Bruce Lee borrowed many ideas from western fencing, but did you know that this was an almost direct quote?

The copyright on the Sports Illustrated: Book of Fencing is 1960, 1962. It was published in 1962. Now Bruce Lee would have been in Seattle at this time and still attending Edison Technical School. It is very doubtful that Lee would have written this first. Also, Lee was still very much Wing Chun oriented in his fighting style. It was not until the late sixties that Lee coined the term "Jeet Kune Do", which we have been told consists mainly of Wing Chun, boxing, and western fencing.

Here are a couple of examples where Bruce Lee took someone else's words and either simply inserted "Jeet Kune Do" or changed it slightly to accommodate an unarmed combat art.

One that I have heard repeated many times over the years and Bruce Lee even included in a personal letter to a fan named "John", in only slightly different wording, is:

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"With all the training thrown to the wind, with a mind perfectly unaware of its own working, with the self vanishing nowhere, anybody knows where, the art of Jeet Kune Do attains its perfection."

Yagyu Tajima no kami Munenori (1571-1646) Japanese swordsman

"...When this is realized, with all the training thrown to the winds, with a mind perfectly unaware of its own workings, with the self vanished nowhere anybody knows, the art of swordsmanship attains its perfection and one who has it is called a meijin."

This was written over 300 years ago! It appears to be an adopted philosophy that should be credited to Yagyu Tajima no kami Munenori, not Bruce Lee.

Here is yet another passage adapted to Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do.

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"Approach Jeet Kune Do with the idea of mastering the will. Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life! Do not be concerned with your escaping safely- lay your life before him!"

Cited in D.T. Suzuki's Zen and Japanese Culture, (copyright 1959) is a commentary note in the book called Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai that reads:

"Araki Matayemon [a great swordsman of the Tokugawa era] gave this instruction to his nephew, Watanabe Kazuma, when they were about to engage in the deadly fight with their enemy: 'Let the enemy touch your skin and you cut into his flesh; let him cut into your flesh and you pierce into his bones; let him pierce into your bones and you take his life!' "

Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai (Hagakure meaning "hidden leaves" or "hidden by leaves"😉 was written by Yamamoto Tsunetomo and first published on September 10, 1716. Again, there should be no doubt as to the original author. Bruce Lee changed the wording to suit his art, but the origins are clearly seen.

And there is another instance I'd like to mention. This is stated in the book The Warrior Within, by John Little as:

The Three Stages of Cultivation

(Bruce Lee's words)
"The first stage is the primitive stage. It is a stage of original ignorance in which a person knows nothing about the art of combat...he simply blocks and strikes instinctively..."
"The second stage- the stage of sophistication, or mechanical stage- begins when a person starts his training. He is taught the different ways of blocking, striking,...Unquestionably, he has gained the scientific knowledge of combat, but unfortunately his original self and sense of freedom are lost, and his action no longer flows by itself...his mind tends to freeze at different movements..."
"The third stage- the stage of artlessness, or spontaneous stage- occurs when, after years of serious and hard practice, the student realizes that after all, gung fu is nothing special..."

In D.T. Suzuki's book Zen and Japanese Culture, (copyright 1959) he writes about Zen as it applies to swordsmanship. Look at the remarkable similarity!

"To state it in terms of swordsmanship, the genuine beginner knows nothing about the way of holding and managing the sword...when the opponent tries to strike him, he instinctively parries it."
"But as soon as the training starts, he is taught how to handle the sword,...and many other technical tricks- which makes the mind 'stop' at various junctures. For this reason whenever he tries to strike the opponent he feels unusually hampered; [he has lost altogether the original sense of innocence and freedom]."
"But as days and years go by, as his training acquires fuller maturity, his bodily attitude and his way of managing the sword advance toward 'no-mind-ness,' which resemble the state of mind he had at the very beginning of training when he knew nothing, when he was altogether ignorant of the art. The beginning and the end thus turn into nextdoor neighbors."

Look at the similarities of the words used: Bruce Lee D.T. Suzuki
1.) blocks and strikes instinctively he instinctively parries
2.) begins when a person starts his training as soon as the training starts
3.) original self/sense of freedom original sense of innocence/freedom
4.) mind tends to freeze makes the mind 'stop'
5.) spontaneous stage "no-mind-ness"
6.) after years of serious...practice as days and years go by

This is a Zen concept of learning and can be applied to almost anything. My point is the similarity in wording. The words of Bruce Lee have been published as though the idea of the three stages were his own creation. In The Warrior Within, John Little states about Lee:

"...he drafted a fascinating philosophical treatise, which he called The Three Stages of Cultivation."

And then goes on to describe them.

Suzuki's book was published in 1959. It was a revised and enlarged version of a book published originally in 1938. Bruce Lee would not have even been born in 1938. (b. 1940) He would have just been arriving in the United States in 1959. The preface to Suzuki's revised edition is dated 1958, before Lee's arrival in the States. I think it is safe to say that Suzuki's work pre-dates Lee's.

It should become quite obvious that these examples are not the original works of Bruce Lee. They have been presented to us, the public, as though they were Bruce Lee originals, when most are only copied or adapted personal notes, with a few exceptions.

In Part 2, we will examine direct quotes taken from various sources and more borrowed philosophies of the "Little Dragon."

Bored now - keep looking for the myodynamics destruction of his weights programme and can't find it. I will soon🙂

hiyahh 😂

The guy would be dangerous if he invented anything himself 😆

Keep the faith 🙂

Stay Whirly 🤘

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I've see your pic... And if thats what weights do... Erm I'll stick to squats..

Its not about muscel mass to me, I wanted more energy.. Thats what the book was talking about.. so I gave it ago...

I'll ignore all the spam you just did, All got comments before... But it is a breach of the KMC rules.. Those same rules you moaned about in a 15 pg thread...

Whats with back patting the people who write bashing comments?? In my book thats just like writing the comments yourself! Do my posts get to you that bad that you have to resort to bashing me as a counter???

Really whirly... Don't you have better things todo then being a broken record???

Its not spam 😂 its answering your post, you provided no evidence. 😂 and you make personal comments about how people look 😂 your not 17.5 stone of muscle with a 12% bodyfat, if you don't like it - 😂 thats cool. But I can imagine how much you go to a gym.

Posting 5 times in a row is spamming..... and half of those arn't posts... they were attacks on me.... Thats trolling and flamming...
Then you attacked me first... I don't want to have a huge muscel definition like you... I wanted more energy.. how was that a personal comment??

again... Another post to bash me whirly! Are you wanting to be banned or something??? you seem to have gone out of your way to attack me here... and I with your thread on the KMC rules only just closing, seems like your doing everything in your power to go against what you preached!

Ali Buma Ye ; Ali Buma Ye ; Ali Buma Ye

Originally posted by GCG
Ali Buma Ye ; Ali Buma Ye ; Ali Buma Ye

🙂

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Posting 5 times in a row is spamming..... and half of those arn't posts... they were attacks on me.... Thats trolling and flamming...
Then you attacked me first... I don't want to have a huge muscel definition like you... I wanted more energy.. how was that a personal comment??

again... Another post to bash me whirly! Are you wanting to be banned or something??? you seem to have gone out of your way to attack me here... and I with your thread on the KMC rules only just closing, seems like your doing everything in your power to go against what you preached!

If you don't like my posts complain. I don't think I have said anything offensive.

Originally posted by GCG
Ali Buma Ye ; Ali Buma Ye ; Ali Buma Ye

🙂

Oh God. Who revived this thread?

Ali still wins.

You can't play a military video game and expect to be trained for war just like you can't pretend to be a fighter in movies and expect to be trained for combat.

jojojojojo, there are different peoples, Ali was a fighting and Bruce was a shaolin fighting....

but i prefered a Bruce Lee because he's was a best fighter shaolin of the world, Jackie chan don't come to their feets....

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!

I finaly thought it was dead.

I was wrong.

But for old times sake Ali wins.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Oh God. Who revived this thread?

Ali still wins.

You can't play a military video game and expect to be trained for war just like you can't pretend to be a fighter in movies and expect to be trained for combat.

Hit and Miss I think, he seems to be a real Bruce Lee fanatic 😂

Originally posted by mr.smiley
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!

I finaly thought it was dead.

I was wrong.

But for old times sake Ali wins.

😂 agreed

I feel like this thread should be renamed

Thread for Whirly and smiley to catch up on old times.

Originally posted by StyleTime
You can't play a military video game and expect to be trained for war just like you can't pretend to be a fighter in movies and expect to be trained for combat.

Well... thats funny... The millitary has developed several games to train there soilders, and pilots train in simulators...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBS1

But bruce never trainned in movies... He became an actor after he was a fighter... Bruce wasn't an actor first....

Dam.... I don't think I've ripped a post apart like that for ages...

and Whirly... your lame posts trying to flame me don't really help your cause... Its just more breaking of the rules....

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Well... thats funny... The millitary has developed several games to train there soilders, and pilots train in simulators...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBS1

But bruce never trainned in movies... He became an actor after he was a fighter... Bruce wasn't an actor first....

Dam.... I don't think I've ripped a post apart like that for ages...

and Whirly... your lame posts trying to flame me don't really help your cause... Its just more breaking of the rules....

I don't think you ripped his post apart, actually I've never seen you rip anyones post apart, empty bravado in my opinion. Please report me if you have an issue with my post. You raised the thread for no reason.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
I feel like this thread should be renamed

Thread for Whirly and smiley to catch up on old times.


🙂 agreed old pal 🙂

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I don't think you ripped his post apart, actually I've never seen you rip anyones post apart, empty bravado in my opinion. Please report me if you have an issue with my post. You raised the thread for no reason.

I think I proved everything he said has no merit... but as its me you will go against everything I just said...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Well... thats funny... The millitary has developed several games to train there soilders, and pilots train in simulators...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBS1

For one, those highly advanced battle simulations aren't just video games like say Halo. Not to mention, soldiers still spend most of their time in real life training before they are sent off to war.

Maybe you should check out some training information of the marines. Strangely enough, I see no mention of video games as part of preparation for combat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps. See? I can post wikipedia links as well.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss But bruce never trainned in movies... He became an actor after he was a fighter... Bruce wasn't an actor first....

My bad. I forgot about Bruce Lee's amazing pro fight record......

....oh wait...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Dam.... I don't think I've ripped a post apart like that for ages...

hysterical

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I think I proved everything he said has no merit... but as its me you will go against everything I just said...

You allude to Lee's amazing career as a fighter....with no fights, yet what I say has no merit?

Originally posted by StyleTime
For one, those highly advanced battle simulations aren't just video games like say Halo. Not to mention, soldiers still spend most of their time in real life training before they are sent off to war.

Operation flashpoint was developed with this in mind... and yes.. its a FPS like halo...

Originally posted by StyleTime
Maybe you should check out some training information of the marines. Strangely enough, I see no mention of video games as part of preparation for combat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps. See? I can post wikipedia links as well.

Yup your really good a posting dead links.. 😆
good job there pal!...hysterical

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Operation flashpoint was developed with this in mind... and yes.. its a FPS like halo...

So having a first person view makes it identical to an X-Box video game? ❌

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Yup your really good a posting dead links.. 😆
good job there pal!...hysterical

Ok. I accidently put the period to close to the link in my last post. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps

Originally posted by StyleTime
So having a first person view makes it identical to an X-Box video game? ❌

Ok. I accidently put the period to close to the link in my last post. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps

Where in this quote did you specify it had to be an xbox game???

Originally posted by StyleTime
You can't play a military video game and expect to be trained for war just like you can't pretend to be a fighter in movies and expect to be trained for combat.

Oh you didn't... You went on to say like halo.... Did anyone claim that training on halo made you a soldier??? nope....

And wiki doesn't hold all the answers, It doesn't have every fact, or even most...

You made a comment, With a big inaccuracy.. Deal with it...