My mistake it was malak http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthmalak/index.html
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Revan's the same as Luke here, no real enemies equal in power to best him.So am I.
Your welcome, sarcasm rules.
Normally right now I would post a big list of reasons but if you haven't read the last 7 pages of why Revan would win with good reasons then it's a waste of my time.
Really, Malak was about equal with the Star Forge's power.
Originally posted by HimoKun
Luke still didn't have experience with anyone near his skill level duting NJO. Vader was not a opponent during NJO, and what he fought was a cripple basically.
Revan also had nobody to fight near his skill level.
By the way...Luke in NJO times had faced the spirit of Exar Kun, Kyp Durron trained by Exar, some people that were trained by the Emperor / Vader, Dessan (+ his entire Sith Academy students). How much combat vs. lightsaber / force users do you have to kill until you can be compared to Revan.
Yes Lucas has control over them, but that doesn't mean he tells them what ot write. If you look at the movie, there is a good and a bad side, the Dark Side and the Light Side. What Luke did with the was for a just cause, so it makes it ok. And I never said you have evil or good midichlorians. Everyone does have the pontential to become good and bad, and you achieve that through the different versions of the force; the light and dark side. And no, good only triumphs over evil in the end in the Star Wars World.( Confederacy being beaten, Malak being killed, Sith Empire being destroyed, Sidious dying, etc.) And why are we even talking about this? It's completely irrelevant.
Lucas actually keeps an eye on what the EU people are doing in "his" universe and since the force is one of the basic ideas in the SWU he will keep an "all seeing eye" on that subject. And by the way the only question is: Is there is a "dark" and a "light" side within the force OR if that is actually determined by the way people use the force.
And its not irrelevant. The force powers that are related to the Dark Side (for example Force Lightning) require emotions to use them while the Light Side abilities (for example Force Healing) require concentration and patience. It is hard to switch from "emotion" to "being calm". So it would be hard for somebody to use Dark Force abilities and than Light Force abilities (that actually matches the game design of KOTOR where using abilities from the "opposite" site needs more power). And Luke could use both side abilities while remaining "concentrated" or "focused" - without any emotion. I think that would give him some advantage compared to Revan.
Form V is a more offensive form of Form III. And if you noticed, Dooku was fighting completely differently from when he was fighting both Obi Wan and Anakin, from when he' fighting anakin. When he's fighting Anakin, he's has a completely different style. His swings have much less finese and the way he's fighting is incredibly open and unlike his percise strikes during AOTC. I believe Dooku was avoiding killing Anakin since Darth Sidious wanted Anakin alive. And Form V is a incredibly open form, almost as open as Form 4. This kinda of form would not help you fight someone like Revan, who would most likely catch on and kill you while your swinging like that.
I was refering to AOTC. Directly after Dooku finished fighting with Anakin you can see him take a deep breath. I'd say he had quite a hard time parrying Anakins attacks. And at least form V is not that open since it was developed from form III.
And you have to keep in mind that Luke had 30 years time practicing with that weapon (not 12 like Anakin) and can use 2 lightsabers at once.
And Yoda was sparring with Jedi all that time and he probably fought many Fallen Jedi. Remember, that the time where Yoda was there was no war, but that doesn't mean he didn't fight anyone.
Sparring with Jedi ? Oh...cool...what do you think who trained the NJO people in lightsaber combat. Luke maybe ? 😉
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Revan also had nobody to fight near his skill level.By the way...Luke in NJO times had faced the spirit of Exar Kun, Kyp Durron trained by Exar, some people that were trained by the Emperor / Vader, Dessan (+ his entire Sith Academy students). How much combat vs. lightsaber / force users do you have to kill until you can be compared to Revan.
Lucas actually keeps an eye on what the EU people are doing in "his" universe and since the force is one of the basic ideas in the SWU he will keep an "all seeing eye" on that subject. And by the way the only question is: Is there is a "dark" and a "light" side within the force OR if that is actually determined by the way people use the force.
And its not irrelevant. The force powers that are related to the Dark Side (for example Force Lightning) require emotions to use them while the Light Side abilities (for example Force Healing) require concentration and patience. It is hard to switch from "emotion" to "being calm". So it would be hard for somebody to use Dark Force abilities and than Light Force abilities (that actually matches the game design of KOTOR where using abilities from the "opposite" site needs more power). And Luke could use both side abilities while remaining "concentrated" or "focused" - without any emotion. I think that would give him some advantage compared to Revan.
I was refering to AOTC. Directly after Dooku finished fighting with Anakin you can see him take a deep breath. I'd say he had quite a hard time parrying Anakins attacks. And at least form V is not that open since it was developed from form III.
And you have to keep in mind that Luke had 30 years time practicing with that weapon (not 12 like Anakin) and can use 2 lightsabers at once.
Sparring with Jedi ? Oh...cool...what do you think who trained the NJO people in lightsaber combat. Luke maybe ? 😉
How many people have we stated that Revan killed but they were close? Many. Malak, Bandon,(Bandon is still more powerful than any Jedi Luke would fight) Vrook,(Much better than anyone Luke fought), and a lot more. Who did Luke fight? No one really. Exar Kun was a ghost, Kyp converted back, Desaan was not close and neither were his students, the Emporer was killed by Vader, Vader was not a worthy opponent of NJO Luke, and you'll have to kill hundreds and hundreds. (Litterally)
Revan did not use emotion, he was the one exception. He did not use his emotion, but he kept calm and collected. And emotion isn't the only way to do Dark Side powers. And by the way you're saying, Luke can't use Dark Side powers since He has to have emotion with them.
Luke had that much time to train? So what. What did he have to practice with? A few weakling Jedi? Revan's training was more complete than Luke's.
I also talked about Yoda fighting Dark Jedi. This is where he would get most of his experience.
"I also talked about Yoda fighting Dark Jedi. This is where he would get most of his experience."
I got an off-topic question, but has anyone heard anything new about some movie Lucas was thinking of writing about Yoda fighting Dark Jedi?
Back on topic,
Luke fought a TON of powerful people.
The Jensarri.
They are not mentioned much, but in "I, Jedi", Luke drops five of them, not even trying, in under twenty seconds. Granted these arent the most powerful forceusers, but they are still pretty good.
Darth Vader.
Many people say that Vader wasn't trying, but he still did some work. Luke learned a lot from these fights.
Darth Sidious.
He helped to kill the freakin Emperor. Sidious is one bad mofo. He sucked in ep3 with a lightsaber, but his force powers kick butt. Luke withstood a lot of his force lightning and was able to carry a half metal person probably a mile or so condiereing I doubt Sidious would have his office type thing by a possible invasion point(the hanger).
Joruus C'baoth.
Probably one of the most underated characters in SW. He was a clone of Jorus C'baoth, who was a very powerful Jedi Master. Joruus was able to control 37000 minds by himself. Luke managed to beat him, although Mara killed him.
Luuke.
Imagine fighting a replica of youself. YOu would see a lot about how you fight and it would later allow you to get better. Sure Luke didn't kill him either, Mara again, but Luke beat him. (I really hated in those books how Mara was the one who actually kills all of the bad guys.)
Emperor Reborn
I dont know if Luke ever fought this guy because I havent read those books.
Shimera
Another character that people dont even know about, or underate him a lot. He is basicly a DLOS except over a species of Warriors. Finaly someone Luke actauly kills.
Gantorius.
Now Gantorius sucks by himself and Luke never even tried to kill him and had little difficulty blocking his hits, but I put this one in to show that he has beaten someone taught by an Ancient Sith already. Yes, Exar Kun was guiding Gantorius just as Obi-wan guided Luke against Vader on Mimbarri(the place where Luke found that Kyber Crystal).
Now that isn't even everbody. I don't know what the hell your talking about, "Luke never fought anyone strong".
He also fought the Nightsisters and Hethrir I believe. Don't remember really how Hethrir died. Then the guy in New Rebellion did Luke fight that guy? My memory fails me with many of these books but it seems like Luke gets screwed out of fighting a lot of people. He did fight the Emperor Reborn though and cut off his hand.
Originally posted by HimoKun
Really, Malak was about equal with the Star Forge's power.
Lord Revan could control the Star Forge better than Malak and he defeated Darth Malak at least twice in a row. Malak's awesome but he couldn't compete with Revan because that Revan had gotten even stronger since his first reign and Revan even gets a lot stronger AFTER KOTOR.
Malak seemed to be doing a pretty good jog controling the star forge. 300% of their original projections. I dont think that Revan ever got it that high.
Well, a possible counter to what I just said, was the Star Forge supposed to be above that star, or had they made modifications and that was allowing the increased output.
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Lord Revan could control the Star Forge better than Malak and he defeated Darth Malak at least twice in a row. Malak's awesome but he couldn't compete with Revan because that Revan had gotten even stronger since his first reign and Revan even gets a lot stronger AFTER KOTOR.
What I meant was when Revan fought Malak, Mlak was using the Star Forge on his side and that he was equal to Revan with the Star Forge helping him.
I never said Luke never fought anyone powerful, I said he never fought anyone equal to him. His clone would not be equal, since the clone would not have all the memories or mental abilities of the original. Luke didn't do very much. All he did was distract him. 37,000 minds. That, you have to agree, is exaggerating. Not even Sidious, Yoda, or Revan, or NJO Luke could do that. And being crazy inhibits your ability to fight. Gantorious was taught by someone who was not the greatest teacher ever. Exar Kun was more of a action kinda of person against being intelligent and was incredbly impatient so I don't think he would teach this guy very well.
Originally posted by HimoKun
I never said Luke never fought anyone powerful, I said he never fought anyone equal to him. His clone would not be equal, since the clone would not have all the memories or mental abilities of the original. Luke didn't do very much. All he did was distract him. 37,000 minds. That, you have to agree, is exaggerating. Not even Sidious, Yoda, or Revan, or NJO Luke could do that. And being crazy inhibits your ability to fight. Gantorious was taught by someone who was not the greatest teacher ever. Exar Kun was more of a action kinda of person against being intelligent and was incredbly impatient so I don't think he would teach this guy very well.
Luke fought quite much people that were as powerful as him or even more powerful.
Vader was equal/more powerful in ROTJ.
Palpatine was more powerful in ROTJ...even MORE powerful than in ROTJ when he was "reborn" in his clone body (Dark Empire) and the second time it was Luke who killed him (20 years before NJO).
In NJO times (so 25-30 years after ANH actually) he had no "single" opponent at his skill. That is the cause they are throwing thousands of opponents in his way. In this case Yuuzhan Vong warriors. And these are much, much harder to defeat than Mandalorians. To tell you why:
a)
They wear living vonduun crab armour which is capable of resisting blaster fire and lightsabers.
b)
They wear Amphistaffs that cannot be penetrated by a lightsaber (only if they are weakened before) and can be used as staffs and whips, spraying deadly toxin.
And Luke killed thousands of them almost alone.
The spirit of Exar Kun was at least powerful enough to kill people, control serveral creatures, do "force grip" on 12 people at once. And I won't say that he would be a bad teacher. Impatient...yes...more "action" than "intelligence" no. He was one of the greatest Sith Alchemist and technicians known. He created new lifeforms and developed weapons that could probably destroy planets. You need some kind of intelligence for that kind of stuff.
@Otaku:
NJO Luke is not overrated, he is overpowered. That is a difference. But he is not overpowered without any reason. If you want to take a quick look on genetic inheritence (ok...now it's getting ugly) Luke would be 50-75 % of Anakin, while Anakin would be 50-75 % of the Force itself. That would make Luke 25-56.25 % the force itself. That is not "almighty" but it can only be outclassed by three things:
a) an avatar of the force itself (100 % force power)
b) another Anakin Skywalker (50-75 % force power)
c) another child of somebody like Anakin (25-56.25 % force power)
Anything else has to go down in a one-vs-one confrontation if you assume that Luke has reached full potential in NJO times. That is just for "force power confrontation". Lightsaber combat is another thing but it is pretty close related to force use and that is the thing what makes me think that Luke could take Revan (or anybody else) even in such kind of confrontation. But this is just my personal oppinion.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Luke fought quite much people that were as powerful as him or even more powerful.Vader was equal/more powerful in ROTJ.
Palpatine was more powerful in ROTJ...even MORE powerful than in ROTJ when he was "reborn" in his clone body (Dark Empire) and the second time it was Luke who killed him (20 years before NJO).In NJO times (so 25-30 years after ANH actually) he had no "single" opponent at his skill. That is the cause they are throwing thousands of opponents in his way. In this case Yuuzhan Vong warriors. And these are much, much harder to defeat than Mandalorians. To tell you why:
a)
They wear living vonduun crab armour which is capable of resisting blaster fire and lightsabers.b)
They wear Amphistaffs that cannot be penetrated by a lightsaber (only if they are weakened before) and can be used as staffs and whips, spraying deadly toxin.And Luke killed thousands of them almost alone.
The spirit of Exar Kun was at least powerful enough to kill people, control serveral creatures, do "force grip" on 12 people at once. And I won't say that he would be a bad teacher. Impatient...yes...more "action" than "intelligence" no. He was one of the greatest Sith Alchemist and technicians known. He created new lifeforms and developed weapons that could probably destroy planets. You need some kind of intelligence for that kind of stuff.
@Otaku:
NJO Luke is not overrated, he is overpowered. That is a difference. But he is not overpowered without any reason. If you want to take a quick look on genetic inheritence (ok...now it's getting ugly) Luke would be 50-75 % of Anakin, while Anakin would be 50-75 % of the Force itself. That would make Luke 25-56.25 % the force itself. That is not "almighty" but it can only be outclassed by three things:a) an avatar of the force itself (100 % force power)
b) another Anakin Skywalker (50-75 % force power)
c) another child of somebody like Anakin (25-56.25 % force power)Anything else has to go down in a one-vs-one confrontation if you assume that Luke has reached full potential in NJO times. That is just for "force power confrontation". Lightsaber combat is another thing but it is pretty close related to force use and that is the thing what makes me think that Luke could take Revan (or anybody else) even in such kind of confrontation. But this is just my personal oppinion.
First of all, ROTJ is not during NJO, so he didn't fight anyone of his calibre during NJO. The Mandalorians had shields that would block melee damage and lightsabre damage, and they had Balsilisk War Suits whcih were probably twice as powerful as the armour the Vong wear.
And the Reborn Emperor was killed by Han in a crash into Byss. And Exar Kun was not a Sith Alchemist, he was a Dark Side of the force user. He was trained a Jedi, so he would use force training instead of Sith Alchemy. He didn't create life forms, he mutilated the Massasi.
I still fail to see how killing 1000 fairly powerful warriors would have any bearing on a one on one duel, and the force users during Revans time on average were a lot more powerful then those during the new jedi order, but truth be told who gives a crap, Revan was never in that situation (fighting the vong)so you don't know how well he would fare, likewise luke never faced the mandalorians or the jedi during Revans time, Technically neither has faced an opponent as powerful the other, and in terms of knowledge of battle Revan knew more and he was able to perfect it through constant combat, anything luke could throw at him wouldn't really be much of a suprise he spent 8 years worth of wars perfecting his force and lightsaber abilities through constant battle, Revan knew everything luke did and a lot more and was able to perfect it pretty much, and that's why no opponent has ever defeated Revan, what I'm trying to say is that he didn't just know all this stuff he practised it till perfection. I'm not saying Luke isn't capable of winning because that would be just plain ignorant I'm just saying Revan has a better chance, but truth be told anyone can beat anyone when it comes right down to it. That all being said I think it would be really close but ultimitley I think Revan's superior knowledge and cunning would win it for him