Wolverine vs The Thing

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Ignorant and bias?? see what i mean -Jinzin you are a fanboy.

Now, what you're failing to realize is that your claim to fanboyism really doesn't invalidate my claims and perspectives based soley on a title alone... You've done nothing more than lay down a red herring in the hopes that calling me a fanboy will keep you from having to support your claims... It doesn't.
Sorry, but if you honestly think that Wolverine can't take brick punches, or wheather a thunderclap in spite of multitudes of evidence then you're being either ignorant or bias... There is no other option. 😐

Originally posted by BUSTER1
I try and explain why i think the Thing can beat Wolverine, even stating how Wolverine can beat Thing, saying how out of 10 fights they take 5 each-and you call me biased!!!

Yes... because frankly you think (Or so you've implied) that the only way Logan can take the majority from Thing is by way of PIS... Which is absurd...

Logan is faster than Grimm, more skilled, more agile, can take more punishment from Thing than the other way around, has more potential to one shot Thing than the other way around, has better damage soak feats than Thing does, has more experience, has better reflexes, and frankly more of a killer instinct....

It's a pretty far cry away from PIS to assume that Logan could take the majority over thing..Especially since he HAS. 😐

And you're reasoning for giving Thing even an even split is skewed as hell...
A thunderclap WILL disorient him enough for Thing to take advantage? Even though out of four instances, only ONE even comes close to supporting that claim and EVEN THEN Wolverine wasn't disporiented enough for the Hulk to actually connect?
I don't think so.
You're talking about a man who has fought along side, AND against friggin BANCHEE. A thunderclap won't have more effect than Benchee's scream.. and what did Wolverine do when Banchee screamed at him? He waded through the scream and punched him out...
You're giving the benefit to the thunderclap IN SPITE of multitudes of evidence that dictates otherwise...
Bias or ignorant.

How about the fact that you call PIS on Wolverine being uneffected by the thunderclap... you didn't even state WHY all you did was give it a title and hope that was enough... just like now calling me a fanboy... And as like now, it wasn't.
There's already been several healing factor related explanations for why Wolverine's capible of brushing off thunderclaps and there's no good argument yet provided to counter them.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Asfor my comment that Wolvie can cut most of the bricks "these days" -i said that b'cos in his 1st appearance against the Hulk, he couldn't cut him. But like i said you are a fanboy,

Trying to suggest that Wolverine's only able to cut bricks "these" days is incredibly ignorant on your behalf.. the fact that you would use his first appearance in which he DID cut up a brick and rotconned later to have cut both is nothing more than validation of that fact.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
and you have trouble taking it in when some suggests that Wolverine isn't unbeatable

Appeal to Non-Sequitur. Your conclussion doesn't follow the premise.
I didn't say Wolverine was unbeatable..
And Wolverine doesn't have to be NEAR unbeatable to beat Thing...

What I've been having problems with here however, has relatively little to do with what you think the outcome of the fight would be but rather WHY you think it would be that way... Because being bias and/or ignorant on the matter doesn't leave you much room to make claims about these characters without looking quite the arse.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
My apologies to the likes of Masterbruce and any one else who actually speaks sense,

Originally posted by BUSTER1
for not being here to back you up against these narrow minded fanboys, but it was Saturday night and i was busy

And, it's kind of hard not to be narrow minded about FACTS. 😐

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Bring it on- as i said i'm not being biased and i have explained my reasoning for giving the Thing 5/10 victories against Wolverine, going by their power sets, rather than the poetic licence of various Marvel writers. You say "it sad really" -why , b'cos i have a different opinion to you, and am not afraid to state it?

A character is defined by what they can do, not what a person THOUGHT they could do at one time..
Described powersets do NOT have more precedence than consistent comic appearances.

Originally posted by jinzin
Described powersets do NOT have more precedence than consistent comic appearances.

😬

Originally posted by jinzin
And what evidence could you possibly put forth to help prove that claim?...
A fanboy is outside the scope of reason, I however don't fall into that category. I simply use evidence which EXISTS to help me prove my points instead of calling "PIS" on everything I don't agree with.

Now, what you're failing to realize is that your claim to fanboyism really doesn't invalidate my claims and perspectives based soley on a title alone... You've done nothing more than lay down a red herring in the hopes that calling me a fanboy will keep you from having to support your claims... It doesn't.
Sorry, but if you honestly think that Wolverine can't take brick punches, or wheather a thunderclap in spite of multitudes of evidence then you're being either ignorant or bias... There is no other option. 😐

Yes... because frankly you think (Or so you've implied) that the only way Logan can take the majority from Thing is by way of PIS... Which is absurd...

Logan is faster than Grimm, more skilled, more agile, can take more punishment from Thing than the other way around, has more potential to one shot Thing than the other way around, has better damage soak feats than Thing does, has more experience, has better reflexes, and frankly more of a killer instinct....

It's a pretty far cry away from PIS to assume that Logan could take the majority over thing..Especially since he HAS. 😐

And you're reasoning for giving Thing even an even split is skewed as hell...
A thunderclap WILL disorient him enough for Thing to take advantage? Even though out of four instances, only ONE even comes close to supporting that claim and EVEN THEN Wolverine wasn't disporiented enough for the Hulk to actually connect?
I don't think so.
You're talking about a man who has fought along side, AND against friggin BANCHEE. A thunderclap won't have more effect than Benchee's scream.. and what did Wolverine do when Banchee screamed at him? He waded through the scream and punched him out...
You're giving the benefit to the thunderclap IN SPITE of multitudes of evidence that dictates otherwise...
Bias or ignorant.

How about the fact that you call PIS on Wolverine being uneffected by the thunderclap... you didn't even state WHY all you did was give it a title and hope that was enough... just like now calling me a fanboy... And as like now, it wasn't.
There's already been several healing factor related explanations for why Wolverine's capible of brushing off thunderclaps and there's no good argument yet provided to counter them.

And like I said, you're ignorant...
That was ONE appearance.. in which he actually cut the living crap out of another brick anyways (Wendigo), aside from that, that wasw retconned the very next meeting that Wolverine had with Hulk.

Trying to suggest that Wolverine's only able to cut bricks "these" days is incredibly ignorant on your behalf.. the fact that you would use his first appearance in which he DID cut up a brick and rotconned later to have cut both is nothing more than validation of that fact.

Appeal to Non-Sequitur. Your conclussion doesn't follow the premise.
I didn't say Wolverine was unbeatable..
And Wolverine doesn't have to be NEAR unbeatable to beat Thing...

What I've been having problems with here however, has relatively little to do with what you think the outcome of the fight would be but rather WHY you think it would be that way... Because being bias and/or ignorant on the matter doesn't leave you much room to make claims about these characters without looking quite the arse.

HA!
And your not bias?.. Grouping Masterbruce into the category of "actually speaking sense"... That kid ignores more facts than you do ten times over.
He dismisses evidence based on the quality of artwork alone.
😐
That makes sense?

Ah yes, and once again appealing to Ad-Hominem when you're arguments alone just don't cut it... I don't know what you possibly could have contributed if you HAD been here so you probably shouldn't sweat it.

And, it's kind of hard not to be narrow minded about FACTS. 😐

Originally posted by Blair Wind
😬

I would have to agree with him, there, Blair.

Peak Human is defined as lifting like 800 pounds. And we know how much the peak humans of marvel and dc can ACTUALLY lift far exceeds that.

Should we neuter them to eight hundred pounds based on 'described powers?'

Originally posted by BUSTER1
When did i say that Wolverine can only win through PIS.

you said that in a non PIS driven fight Wolverine would draw an even split with Thing... Thus implying that you think the only way that Wolverine could get the majority over him would be by way of PIS...
😐

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Did you actually bother to read my posts?

Unfortunately...

Originally posted by BUSTER1
I said that Wolverine not being affected by a thunderclap, which is a sound based attack, is PIS, b'cos with his hypersensitive hearing he would be susceptible to it. In Wolvie's own narration in Hulk #340 he states the thunderclap is almost lethal to him.

And once again, as Cresh pointed out before, what does that mean coming from a man who laughs off lethal attacks? And once again, as I said, what does that mean from a man who's healing factor is now stronger enough to make what used to be lethal attacks on him now mere momentary annoyances?

You haven't tried to justify your thinking here at all....
If his hearing is more suseptible to sound based attacks, wouldn't his eardrums be more prone to simply bursting, causing his healing factor to fix it within fractions of a second and appear virtually uneffected?
And once again.. the Hulk example was the ONLY time he's really been affected by a thunderclap, and while saing that it felt almost lethal, his immediate reaction to "almost lethal" negated the hyperbole completely...

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Ok Hulk didn't manage to hit him afterwards, but the Thing moves faster than the Hulk.

😆

No he doesn't.. not even close to faster...
Hulk's snagged rockets out of the air, he's casually backhanded Quick Silver aside, swatted away Speed Freak, grabbed Spiderman out of the air and used him to bat away an incoming Green Goblin....
Thing's faster? Hardly... more like not at all really.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
I'm not saying the Thing would wipe out Wolverine easily, i never said that.

And no one here has once accused you of saying that, so let's not pretend that that's the issue here...

Originally posted by BUSTER1
But you've got a problem with me just b'cos i don't share your view that Wolverine takes out the Thing without working up a sweat.

I never ONCE stated that Wolverine takes out the Thing without breaking a sweat... again, stop these fantasies of yours and try to argue what's really being discussed here...
I don't have a problem with you, once again... not the issue... What I have a problem with is WHY you think what you think... You have no good reasoning for it, only your own speculation at hand. And you're proving to consistently ignore hardcore facts.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
What you call facts are not actually facts, as we're dealing with fictional characters

😂

Bull.

😐

In the fiction of the story of Batman.. Batman's name is Bruce Wayne... It's a FACT that Batman's actually Bruce Wayne in the reality o his fiction... You can't simply write off fictional events as having no relevance to a discussion about FICTIONAL characters....

Originally posted by BUSTER1
whose powers can be written as powerful or weak as the writer of the story wishes them to be-hence my mention of poetic licence

And yet...

Over 50 writers have had Wolverine taking brick shots and fighting back.

Over half a dozen writer have had Wolverine shrugging off sound based attacks..

At least 3 Writers have had Logan kicking Ben's ass...

But if you want to say these aren't facts because you want to appeal to a COP-OUT instead of a real argument, fine...

But I ask you, what then becomes your standard of evidence?

Handbooks?

HA!

The fight boils down to this:

Are Wolverine's claws hard/strong/sharp enough to penetrate Thing's hide? Yes.

Is Wolverine strong enough to shove the claws in Thing's skin or slash him? Yes.

Is Wolverine faster? Hell yes.

Is Wolverine the better fighter? Yep.

Is Wolverine more agile? You better believe it.

Will Wolverine use his speed and agility to get the first strike? Yes.

Will Thing be harmed/injured by a claw swipe? Yes.

Because of all these advantages Wolverine has, is Thing's strength advantage moot? Yes.

Does Logan own Ben? F*ck yeah.

Wolverine 8/10.

Originally posted by batdude123
The fight boils down to this:

Are Wolverine's claws hard/strong/sharp enough to penetrate Thing's hide? Yes.

Is Wolverine strong enough to shove the claws in Thing's skin or slash him? Yes.

Is Wolverine faster? Hell yes.

Is Wolverine the better fighter? Yep.

Is Wolverine more agile? You better believe it.

Will Wolverine use his speed and agility to get the first strike? Yes.

Will Thing be harmed/injured by a claw swipe? Yes.

Because of all these advantages Wolverine has, is Thing's strength advantage moot? Yes.

Does Logan own Ben? F*ck yeah.

Wolverine 8/10.

lol.. yup.

Originally posted by jinzin
lol.. yup.

not very convincing

Well if I'm not convincing to YOU, I'm not really concerned.. you're impossible to convince; in your stubburn anti-fanboyism you literally look for reasons to discredit what Logan's done.. it's nonsense.

Originally posted by jinzin
Well if I'm not convincing to YOU, I'm not really concerned.. you're impossible to convince; in your stubburn anti-fanboyism you literally look for reasons to discredit what Logan's done.. it's nonsense.

no, I don't look for reasons to discredit Logan

it's just that most of the evidence you've brought had many flaws, which I have pointed out time and time again

however, you have convinced me that Wolverine does have the edge in this match. I just don't quite agree that Logan wins everytime.

Originally posted by masterbruce
no, I don't look for reasons to discredit Logan

it's just that most of the evidence you've brought had many flaws, which I have pointed out time and time again

however, you have convinced me that Wolverine does have the edge in this match. I just don't quite agree that Logan wins everytime.

You're incorrect in whatever flaws you think you've found, or you find "flaws" that have nothing to do with the point that's being made no matter how many times we have to explain it to you...

I don't think I've said that he wins everytime.. 😕

Originally posted by jinzin
Yes you do..

You're incorrect in whatever flaws you think you've found, or you find "flaws" that have nothing to do with the point that's being made no matter how many times we have to explain it to you...

I don't think I've said that he wins everytime.. 😕

1. The thing thunderclap - Wolverine was far away from the clap so we can't really judge the effect

2. Grey Hulk clap - a) wolverine claims it's almost lethal b) it's grey hulk - so Things clap is potentially stronger c) Wolverine looks shaken up

- yes, I agree Wolverine recovered pretty quickly, but I disagree that is had no effect on him because it surely did

3. Hulk thunderclapping Logan in the face with no effect - I've already stated why I believe it is PIS, and it's not JUST BECAUSE of the shitty art

Originally posted by masterbruce
1. The thing thunderclap - Wolverine was far away from the clap so we can't really judge the effect

Not farther than he'd be in a fight, otherwise the clap would be useless on account of his speed.. irrelivent.

Originally posted by masterbruce
2. Grey Hulk clap - a) wolverine claims it's almost lethal b) it's grey hulk - so Things clap is potentially stronger c) Wolverine looks shaken up

B) No it isn't...

C) He's not.

Originally posted by masterbruce
3. Hulk thunderclapping Logan in the face with no effect - I've already stated why I believe it is PIS, and it's not JUST BECAUSE of the shitty art

Originally posted by jinzin
Not farther than he'd be in a fight, otherwise the clap would be useless on account of his speed.. irrelivent.

A) negated the claim with immediate reaction, negated the claim when his HF got suped up...

B) No it isn't...

C) He's not.

And I already explained why you're probably wrong but you didn't care to listen. 😬

🙄

Your hilarious Jiz, You can't tell how far Ben was from Wolverine other then that they were probably inside 100ft of each other. There is no way in hell you can put an accurate distance on it inside of that. Say what you want, anything other than that is pure shit.

A) Ben's thunderclap is also about the concussive blast that would send Wolverine flying at a great rate of speed to maybe hit a wall,car,tree...etc that's another effect to it, other than the ear ringing vertigo and disorientation that normally comes with it. There would be almost a moving force field effect too. That would allow Ben to follow up on it while Wolverine was flying through the air and was crashing into something.

B) Current Ben is much,much stronger than Grey HULK who takes quite sometime to get into the mid CL100's where Ben is at normal strength. So his additional strength would most definitely effect wolverine more. Without question. Say other wise and your showing a significant lack of logic.

C) He most certainly was shook up, Why would he be grimacing with the look of pain if he truly wasn't in pain. He was shaking and gritting his teeth trying to endure it. Say that he wasn't and your also saying you haven't seen that page of the book.

If Ben was standing face to face from Wolverine at from 6 ft away or better and was ready for a fight there would be a 10% chance that Wolverine would be able to do any serious damage to ben before Ben grabbed Wolverines hands crushed them flat and stuck them in Wolverine's own melon. Then began to unload hay-makers until Wolverine was KO'd period. End of story. Wolverine loses and so do you.

Ben 7/10 minimum

Wolverine 8/10, for reason stated above.

Logan wins damned near every time.

Originally posted by Soljer
Logan wins damned near every time.

🤣

Not even close

Originally posted by Tony Stark
🙄

Your hilarious Jiz, You can't tell how far Ben was from Wolverine other then that they were probably inside 100ft of each other. There is no way in hell you can put an accurate distance on it inside of that. Say what you want, anything other than that is pure shit.

Yes you can.. hell you can do it easily using proportions, perspective, and the horizon line. which if you knew one damned thing about comic art and/or logic, would be easy to determine.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
A) Ben's thunderclap is also about the concussive blast that would send Wolverine flying at a great rate of speed to maybe hit a wall,car,tree...etc that's another effect to it, other than the ear ringing vertigo and disorientation that normally comes with it. There would be almost a moving force field effect too. That would allow Ben to follow up on it while Wolverine was flying through the air and was crashing into something.

And IF Wolverine was sent flying back at such a rate of speed no way in hell is Thing fast enough to capitalize on it with a follow up.. Grey Hulk wasn't able to do that and Logan hadn't been hurled anywhere from that Thunderclap.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
B) Current Ben is much,much stronger than Grey HULK who takes quite sometime to get into the mid CL100's where Ben is at normal strength. So his additional strength would most definitely effect wolverine more. Without question. Say other wise and your showing a significant lack of logic.

Grey Hulk's reaching class 100 isn't so much a matter of time as it was a matter of rage.. Wolverine made him plenty pissed off.

To say otherwise would be me NOT ignoring the fact that Logan's healing factor has been boosted to far greater geometric extents than Things strength.. but of course you would ignore that, and cling to the ONLY thunderclap example where Wolverine's even affected as if it means something because you know that by-and-large your argument holds no water..

It's as transparent as you posting a scan of Thing KOing Logan even when the scan discredits itself.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
C) He most certainly was shook up, Why would he be grimacing with the look of pain if he truly wasn't in pain. He was shaking and gritting his teeth trying to endure it. Say that he wasn't and your also saying you haven't seen that page of the book.

Yeah he was grimacing in pain from the initial effect of the clap, but the term "shook up? implies some lasting effect. Obviously there was none..

I can show the same grimace of pain when I brush my shin against the table leg, doesn't mean the table has me shook up.. 😐

Originally posted by Tony Stark
If Ben was standing face to face from Wolverine at from 6 ft away or better and was ready for a fight there would be a 10% chance that Wolverine would be able to do any serious damage to ben before Ben grabbed Wolverines hands crushed them flat and stuck them in Wolverine's own melon. Then began to unload hay-makers until Wolverine was KO'd period. End of story. Wolverine loses and so do you.

Ben 7/10 minimum

Just repeating the same nonsense over and over again doesn't make you right, being right makes one right and you're a pretty far-cry away from that..

If Logan's within 6 feet of Ben, thunderclaps a none-issue.. the fact that you think Thing is likely to grab his hands without getting diced up is either stupidity or insanity on your part.

Wolverine's faster, has hyper-reflexes, greater agility and more skill...

Hell, Ben's had multiple chances to prove you right and what's happened so far..? He got half his face ripped off, one shotted through the shoulder, knocked clear out the x-mansion, and had to be saved by Invisible Woman....

You're being ignorant, you're being bias, you're being annoying, and now, you're being overconfident...

You want to call me hilarious and yet it's you who stands as a resounding joke. 😐

Originally posted by jinzin
Yes you can.. hell you can do it easily using proportions, perspective, and the horizon line. which if you knew one damned thing about comic art and/or logic, would be easy to determine.

Thing's thunderclap won't have more effect than Savage Hulk's and Wolverine's weathered that twice... Hell if Thing's thunderclap was an issue here, it WOULD HAVE BEEN ALREADY....

And IF Wolverine was sent flying back at such a rate of speed no way in hell is Thing fast enough to capitalize on it with a follow up.. Grey Hulk wasn't able to do that and Logan hadn't been hurled anywhere from that Thunderclap.

Grey Hulk's reaching class 100 isn't so much a matter of time as it was a matter of rage.. Wolverine made him plenty pissed off.

To say otherwise would be me NOT ignoring the fact that Logan's healing factor has been boosted to far greater geometric extents than Things strength.. but of course you would ignore that, and cling to the ONLY thunderclap example where Wolverine's even affected as if it means something because you know that by-and-large your argument holds no water..

It's as transparent as you posting a scan of Thing KOing Logan even when the scan discredits itself.

Yeah I haven't seen that page of the book.. in spite of me having it.. and scanning it.. 🙄

Yeah he was grimacing in pain from the initial effect of the clap, but the term "shook up? implies some lasting effect. Obviously there was none..

I can show the same grimace of pain when I brush my shin against the table leg, doesn't mean the table has me shook up.. 😐

Just repeating the same nonsense over and over again doesn't make you right, being right makes one right and you're a pretty far-cry away from that..

If Logan's within 6 feet of Ben, thunderclaps a none-issue.. the fact that you think Thing is likely to grab his hands without getting diced up is either stupidity or insanity on your part.

Wolverine's faster, has hyper-reflexes, greater agility and more skill...

Hell, Ben's had multiple chances to prove you right and what's happened so far..? He got half his face ripped off, one shotted through the shoulder, knocked clear out the x-mansion, and had to be saved by Invisible Woman....

You're being ignorant, you're being bias, you're being annoying, and now, you're being overconfident...

You want to call me hilarious and yet it's you who stands as a resounding joke. 😐

🙄

Prove to me that per the using proportions, perspective, and the horizon line you can inequitably tell me how far apart they were...You can't point is mute. Your reasoning is shot down and so are you.

It depends on if Wolverine hits anything after Ben thunderclaps him or continues to sail through the air, how soon Ben can take advantage of it with an immediate attack. Shot down.

Logan's healing factor has been boosted to far greater geometric extents than Things strength.. Prove it. Nope can't. Shot down.

All that scan and the one from the previous page show is that Wolverine "DAZED" his shoulder and arm when being hurled into Ben and that Ben KO'd Wolverine with a BONK on the head. Shot down.

I can show the same grimace of pain when I brush my shin against the table leg, doesn't mean the table has me shook up..

But what it would show was that you were either like Jim Carey an were an "over-actor" or that you were an extreme wuss. I'm tending to lean towards the latter.

If Logan's within 6 feet of Ben, thunderclaps a none-issue.. Ohh.. I forgot that neither sound nor concussive forces works inside 6ft a being. 😛

the fact that you think Thing is likely to grab his hands without getting diced up is either stupidity or insanity on your part. Remember what I said in the past is that Ben would probably take some damage just nothing that would truly stop him "unlike" that Enemy of the State crap that portrays Ben being taken down for the count by being stabbed in the shoulder... 🤣 With all of the things that he's taken in the past... 🤣 It is truly laughable. Just like your continues debating of this fight. Let's make sure we get this straight if someone i.e. (Ben) who is CL100 which means CL100=200,000lbs+ being lifted over his head and if someone i.e. (Wolverine) can lift 900-1000 over his head, That would mean that Ben is over 200x stronger than Wolverine...Not 2x...not 20x...over 200x stronger than Wolverine. Not to mention that Ben is 3x bigger than Wolverine. So lets say that a 3 yr old girl (Wolverine) can lift 3lbs over her head and Mariusz Pudzianowski (Ben) can lift over 600lbs over his head. What are the chances that even if the little girl (Wolverine) got really mad and her adrenaline boosted her strength lvl 5x it's normal lvls that Mariusz Pudzianowski (Ben) couldn't control her hands and keep them still if he chose to or needed to. Answer is 0%. Hence Ben wins for the majority and your shot down.

Take that Jim Carey or wuss you decide.