Maybe if Revan didn't use the Force at all and simply disarmed and overpowered Nihilus with his bare hands...
Unlikely, extremely unlikely, since taking away a lightsaber is not easy, but I think it's at least a possibility. If Revan could bring it to a level of martial abilities without the Force (fist fighting), it evens the playing fields a little bit.
Ok, I know we’ve done this once before Fishy but what can I say, I’m bored and a glutton for punishment. Imo people give the benefit of the doubt to unknowns way too much here. A jedi master said this guy she never knew from millennia ago was the best duelist so everyone on this board thinks he can take anyone, same with Ragnos and Nihilus. I’ve got some old and new reasons why Nihilus’ Force drain isn’t all invincible like most ASSUME it is, remember there’s barely anything on the topic.
1. It surely takes time. I mean being able to drain the all the Force power out of anyone in a heart beat’s time? Not likely, especially against more powerful foes.
2. He never fought while using it, making me believe he has to concentrate hard on it and Revan could walk up and kill him before he could drain enough of his force energy. Or he could try to fight Revan and lose.
3. He seemed to use it on Kreia, though if that’s true then I have no idea why she survived, and I personally think she did it purposely for a grander reason. In either case, let’s assume he did get it to work on her, yet Kreia couldn’t resist Malachor V either, yet Lord Revan did. With a Will as strong as his I wouldn’t be the least surprised if he could simply resist it.
4. You’ve got a brilliant tactician versus a guy that thinks bombs won’t blow his ship up. Even IF Nihilus is all powerful, Revan could probably outsmart him in one way or another.
5. If Nihilus can use it to any Force user, why didn’t he immediately kill Visas when she helped the Exile attack him? Sure they were connected but her dying barely weakened him as it was, and that’s better than having to fight her and the other two at the same time, or maybe he was too stupid to think of that.
The info on Nihilus is vague at best so I think these reasons can let Darth Revan win myself.
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Ok, I know we’ve done this once before Fishy but what can I say, I’m bored and a glutton for punishment. Imo people give the benefit of the doubt to unknowns way too much here. A jedi master said this guy she never knew from millennia ago was the best duelist so everyone on this board thinks he can take anyone, same with Ragnos and Nihilus. I’ve got some old and new reasons why Nihilus’ Force drain isn’t all invincible like most ASSUME it is, remember there’s barely anything on the topic.
Okay...
1. It surely takes time. I mean being able to drain the all the Force power out of anyone in a heart beat’s time? Not likely, especially against more powerful foes.
Not necessarily, he used it against people who went to him and ate them all, all that was left was a wound in the force. Thats how the Jedi found out about him, I don't think it takes him all that long to eat them, otherwise he would have died in a fight against those Jedi that challenged him earlier already.
2. He never fought while using it, making me believe he has to concentrate hard on it and Revan could walk up and kill him before he could drain enough of his force energy. Or he could try to fight Revan and lose.
Same thing as with the previous applies, he used it while fightning and had to be able to do it fast otherwise he would have died by their hands.
3. He seemed to use it on Kreia, though if that’s true then I have no idea why she survived, and I personally think she did it purposely for a grander reason. In either case, let’s assume he did get it to work on her, yet Kreia couldn’t resist Malachor V either, yet Lord Revan did. With a Will as strong as his I wouldn’t be the least surprised if he could simply resist it.
I have no idea, maybe he didn't want her to die, maybe he hoped that she could get him more Jedi somehow. Maybe that was a condition for her survival, she did afterall once say that she told Nihilus to go to Telos. I don't know why he let her live, I really don't but he did. But so did Sion. Twice.
4. You’ve got a brilliant tactician versus a guy that thinks bombs won’t blow his ship up. Even IF Nihilus is all powerful, Revan could probably outsmart him in one way or another.
Nihilus didn't really seem like somebody who would care about that, maybe he didn't even notice or maybe he just thought that nobody would set them off or maybe he was just an idiot. But even an idiot can beat up a smart guy who has no power.
5. If Nihilus can use it to any Force user, why didn’t he immediately kill Visas when she helped the Exile attack him? Sure they were connected but her dying barely weakened him as it was, and that’s better than having to fight her and the other two at the same time, or maybe he was too stupid to think of that.
Don't know, maybe no reason or maybe he just wanted her back. Afterall she was his eyes and ears in the galaxy, he let her live once before when he blew up the planet she was on and killed her entire race. Or most of them at least with the exception of the few that weren't on the planet. She was the only one that survived however. Nihilus had a reason for sparing her then so that he could have somebody to watch out for him and he would have a reason to spare her again.
1. Who fought him face to face? How strong were they? Did he actually kill them with his eating thing or just kill them with a lightsaber? I still think he can't do it to anyone stronger than himself. While we assume he did it to Kreia, we don't know and it doesn't answer why she lived. Speaking of that Kreia scene, why didn't Nihilus just eat her like you think he could? Why didn't Nihilus beat her up? Note that it says they overpowered her TOGETHER. I'll post the other reasons later.
Ok, I'm back and if those Jedi did actually go to fight him, he may have simply defeated them with a lightsaber. While not the best, he still held out for a while against the Exile, Visas, and Mandalore.
2. Have we ever even seen him doing it for sure? Not to my knowledge...
3. I've sorta answered this already, Nihilus didn't need Sion if he's as powerful as you think and I think he would've killed him if that was the case.
4. Nihilus had a primitive mind and against perhaps the greatest tactician ever, Nihilus could lose by being outsmarted. It's not always the strongest who wins, hypothetically speaking of course if Nihilus is invincible like you say, he could still easily lose to Revan like Maul to Obi or Anakin to Obi or countless others. Except this time it would be like a kid against Grand Admiral Thrawn.
5. Funny how you mentioned Visas was the only one to survive the attack. Now he may have let her live purposely and it might even say that, I forgot but if she lived it's obviously not a perfect technique. As for him letting her live the second time, maybe but again that would be pretty stupid since I think he woulda killed her once he realized his "eating" technique didn't work on the Exile. Again why wouldn't he use it on her? Perhaps because she could resist it. I noticed you didn't comment on the whole Revan's will power being stronger than Kreia's argument. IMO that alone raises enough questions that I think Lord Revan has more going for him than Nihilus.
Also to darth-yoda, thanks. At least one person likes them... 😄
Originally posted by Emperor Revan
[B]Ok, I'm back and if those Jedi did actually go to fight him, he may have simply defeated them with a lightsaber. While not the best, he still held out for a while against the Exile, Visas, and Mandalore.
Yeah he managed to hold one, but he had some experience with it. Still he could not defeat a few Jedi at once. After all he's still part of the Exile and the Exile by the end of the Mandelorian wars wasn't god either.
2. Have we ever even seen him doing it for sure? Not to my knowledge...
The Kreia movie
3. I've sorta answered this already, Nihilus didn't need Sion if he's as powerful as you think and I think he would've killed him if that was the case.
Nihilus did all the work, Sion just hit her when she was down...She was already defeated. I still don't know why he didn't kill her I really don't or Sion for that matter, but I think Kreia was more important to the two of them then most people would realise. I just don't think they wanted to be controlled by her. Sion follows her at the end and Nihilus still listened to her. She had her purpose for the two of them.
4. Nihilus had a primitive mind and against perhaps the greatest tactician ever, Nihilus could lose by being outsmarted. It's not always the strongest who wins, hypothetically speaking of course if Nihilus is invincible like you say, he could still easily lose to Revan like Maul to Obi or Anakin to Obi or countless others. Except this time it would be like a kid against Grand Admiral Thrawn.
He may be stupid, but throw Bill Gates up against [Random world champion wrestel with an IQ lower then a fishstick] and the wrestler will still win.
5. Funny how you mentioned Visas was the only one to survive the attack. Now he may have let her live purposely and it might even say that, I forgot but if she lived it's obviously not a perfect technique. As for him letting her live the second time, maybe but again that would be pretty stupid since I think he woulda killed her once he realized his "eating" technique didn't work on the Exile. Again why wouldn't he use it on her? Perhaps because she could resist it. I noticed you didn't comment on the whole Revan's will power being stronger than Kreia's argument. IMO that alone raises enough questions that I think Lord Revan has more going for him than Nihilus.
You think the fact that Visas survived makes Nihilus looks weak, it makes him all that moe impressive, he ate the entire freaking planet and still let somebody live. Thats quite amazing, nothing of that planet remains and still he let Visas live. If he went through that much trouble the first time I don't see why he wouldn't do it the second time.
And to answer the obvious question that comes next, he didn't eat Mandalore because that would serve no purpose. He needed Visas, couldn't eat the Exile Mandalore had no purpose.
Now about the will power. Yes Kreia her willpower is probably lower then Revan his is, but do not underestimate her, and I seriously doubt it would be enough to stop him from being eaten.
Why do you keep saying Malachor is impressive, the Star Forge is far more impressive 😛 but yeah that and Malachor speak heavily for Revan. However you should not forget that eating a planet and resisting its temptations are different.
Not going to the Dark Side and destroying it are two different things, and I don't think Revan his willpower is strong enough to resist being eaten. The force still flows through him.
Also keep in mind, if his technique takes time the Jedi on the planet he ate would have noticed and would probably have had the time to escape or hunt him down before Nihilus destroyed them all. It really just couldn't take long.
1.) Malak could control the Star Forge, but he didn't resist it and he couldn't control it like Revan. Also according to Kotor he started to turn before Malachor he even says so himself
2.) Cool 😎
3.) Held up from what? Running away? Their ships could have been destroyed but the assasins wouldn't have destroyed their own ships and they would be noticed when they were landing. What you are saying now is just guess work at best, with no real basis. I admit I would love it if it was true, but I just don't think it is.
1. I bet Malachor helped, and I doubt Malak had more Will than Kreia.
2. Cool. 😎
3. Well yeah, it is all guess work but most is when it comes to Nihilus. Anywho, I still believe he has to concentrate really hard on it, meaning he can't fight with it (like Bastila and her battle meditation) and that's why Nihilus needed Sion. Sure if Nihilus could actually use it on Lord Revan without him resisting, they would both sit there powerless, except Revan was strong even without the Force. And like I said before, there's a very high probability of Revan outsmarting him as well.
1.) I don't know he could have been dark completely before that.
3.) Now there is a chance of that, but nothing seems to support it. Some masters (definitly the one on Nar Shaddaa) have said that Jedi went to confront Nihilus and all it left was a wound in the force. Then there is the planet. Now it could be that he has to concentrate and then one second later everybody is dead, but I doubt that very much. Especially because Jedi have confronted him. If he was not able to do it during a fight he would have been dead already.
4.) I like your theory a lot more, but it just wouldn't make sense, also if it was true why didn't Revan ever come back to kill Nihilus. Why use Kreia to do it?