Originally posted by ESB Vader
DE sidious? why would u say that.
Because he is the strongest Sith Lord to ever exist. . .? He knows "all previously unknown, and forgotten techniques" and apparently can "create new techniques at his leisure". His Force storm literally destroyed entire fleets, and he was only beaten when his own power was turned against him because the strongest being in Star Wars, Luke Skywalker, combined his power with Leia to shield Palpatine from the Darkness.
DE Sidious > All Sith Lords. You can try to argue it, but Lightsnake will own you.
Originally posted by ESB Vader
well can DE sidious pwn luke?
In DE, I'd put my money on Sidious against DE Luke. But after DE, like NJO and DN Luke - Sidious would definitely lose in a lightsaber fight, and more than likely lose (he might have a slight chance; hardly though) in a Force fight against NJO Luke. I don't believe he has much of a chance in a Force fight against DN Luke.
Anyways, no one can "pwn" NJO or DN Luke. Certainly put up a fight, but no one can actually "pwn" - or rather beat the shit out of - him.
well maybe if sididous lived after DE he could have learned all the secrets of the ancient sith including beefing up his personal force drain to nihilus level or maybe prehaps he found the remains of malachor and the star forge.
which would problably put him to the same level as Njo luke or prehaps maybe(my opinion) full potential undamaged vader.
well luke and sidious in DE, sidious was at the higher level but i believe he could become far stronger than he is once Njo begins or ended
When I see little Sidious do it, I'll believe it.
Where's the imagination gone in these forums? Honestly?
Canon only means something to a very little amount of people, canon does not allow for interesting argument because it means all our points are literally bound to what someone under the payroll of LA has said, and these statements are skeptical at best.
I enjoyed it in these forums when canon being the law was just a little argument, other debates were on a higher plane and very interesting to read.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Wow, sour grapes much?
Oh, and he has done it. He drained the people of Byss in moderation.
And yeah, that's what canon is. It's fact. You might as well try to argue against other basic facts
Sour?
Kid, you should learn that these forums aren't about trying to argue with people, goad or insult them. They aren't about trying to win as many arguments as possible. they are about talking and reasoning with other people who like Star Wars. If canon comes at the forefront of all your arguments, and is the only ever point you can make, then god bless you, but theres more to talk about. Canon should only be something to fall back on. After all, what possible fun is there to be had when you never get to see how other people think and percieve about Star Wars? Interesting reading and discussion comes from what other people say, not what an official LA publication says. Perhaps that level of discussion is above you however.
Revan has always been a favourite of mine, perhaps not the ultimate in a fight, but his tactical ability and conviction are pretty admirable. Seems to me the writers did a very good job and placing him apart from both the Jedi Order, and your typical ugly looking Sith, so you can actually relate to such a guy of power. People like Sidious and even Ragnos have little to no redeeming features, both in a way represent a dark side pysche of human nature (albeit Ragnos was a half-breed). Sidious is deceitful and manipulative, but from what I saw in the movies, he didn't look like the most twisted and strongest Sith of all time. But then theres an awful lot about the Sith we dont know still, theres still millenia in the chronology that lay untouched by LA. And as alot of the statements LA made were before (yes, this is where you can allow canon, after you've given your own feelings) Episode III was made, perhaps its a fault of the director and those involved parties why Sidious didn't look all powerful.
Seeing as Star Wars is based on old myths and stories from across europe and carries all the fundamental trademarks of them, it would make sense that the most powerful days occured in the far, distant past. There are alot of franchises similar to star Wars where this theory is the case. Perhaps Star Wars carries this as its only exception to that form, but maybe it has something to do with the nature of Lucas and the fact he has such a powerful and influential company, these days money comes before all other aspects of SW. This may be a reason why Lucas continues to glorify his own work ahead of other projects, hence why that make decisions on there own mistakes, and call one version canon and the other "unofficial".
Please understand that all my arguments are on a higher level than simple canon is law debates, there is no fun in those.
Sure, but if people argue against something that can be solved by canon and has been established as Star Wars law, then rest assured, it will be used.
Revan is two things: A tale of redemption and a mary-sue people could fill in the blanks for. Take him either way, I like the former myself. Palpatine was designed with no redeeming features in mind, but he's about ten times more admirable a villain than a good chunk of the Sith we see in the EU...Ulic Qel-Droma, Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh....
And perhaps it's a matter of your perception of how Sidious looked, because as far as the stoy is concerned, he is extremely powerful. Star Wars may be 'based' off whatever, but it is still its own story and no matter what anyone 'thinks' makes sense, there is still plain fact: That the most powerful was not in far off days.
Understand this: I'm all up for a good argument, but when people try to place some people are higher plateaus when it's simply untrue as decided by the storyline itself, then canon enters into it.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sure, but if people argue against something that can be solved by canon and has been established as Star Wars law, then rest assured, it will be used.
Revan is two things: A tale of redemption and a mary-sue people could fill in the blanks for. Take him either way, I like the former myself. Palpatine was designed with no redeeming features in mind, but he's about ten times more admirable a villain than a good chunk of the Sith we see in the EU...Ulic Qel-Droma, Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh....And perhaps it's a matter of your perception of how Sidious looked, because as far as the stoy is concerned, he is extremely powerful. Star Wars may be 'based' off whatever, but it is still its own story and no matter what anyone 'thinks' makes sense, there is still plain fact: That the most powerful was not in far off days.
Understand this: I'm all up for a good argument, but when people try to place some people are higher plateaus when it's simply untrue as decided by the storyline itself, then canon enters into it.
Wow lightsnake, does the term "hypocrite" mean anything to you? You constantly hide behind quotes, you would rather email the creators/authors because you cannot formulate an argument of your own and you cannot stand to have anybody BUT your favorite characters being on top. Then you purposely misinterpret quotes, purposely play stupid because it might boost someone you don't like, and spend most of your time on this forum boosting Sidious+PT Jedi to high plateaus.
Leave it out, I actually got a nice opinion out of him for once.
Looking at Star Wars and where it came from is why it fascinates me Lightsnake. it's a modern myth to be sure, and its one that doesn't actually allow for imitators. The opposite of this is say, Lord of the Rings, with imitators left right and center, albeit, that itself was based off the same kind of material as Star Wars.
What I don't get is that Sidious does not have to be the most powerful Sith of all time, thats not mentioned in the screenplay and that is Lucas' representation of the story as far as I am concerned.
(I wasn't finished with this post but I have to go down the pub. Alcholism is a necessity)
Star wars is still its own unique franchise. And whether Lucas intended originally for Sidious to be the strongest, that's apparently the route others are going with him. Dark Empire, anyone? Sure, he doesn't have to be the most powerful, but neither do Revan, nor Exar Kun, nor Marka Ragnos. In this case, though, LFL seems to be siding with the movie characters and given the levels of power shown in the EU, that makes complete sense(Yoda carries around guns the size of houses-not an exagerration, Palpatine is able to drain planets and shatter the fabric of reality)
If there's a defining answer, then it is just that.
Sure, in Lord of the Rings, the ancients were much, much stronger than the contemporary, but Star Wars has, in its own way, given itself its own unique spin. Tolkien created his own mythology and Lucas created his...it'd be like saying Tolkien was wrong about Fingolfin being the strongest of the brothers martially
and no sidious didnt learn everything, did he learn to blow up a star? no?
did his force drain surpassed nihilus? no and also there r alot of things he could have learned which will match luke, like? Tulak hords holocron.
he could have become more skilled in a lightsaber skill learning that holocron, and what about learing the full power of ragnos? through the holocrons the scripts everything
Originally posted by ESB Vader
and no sidious didnt learn everything, did he learn to blow up a star? no?
did his force drain surpassed nihilus? no and also there r alot of things he could have learned which will match luke, like? Tulak hords holocron.he could have become more skilled in a lightsaber skill learning that holocron, and what about learing the full power of ragnos? through the holocrons the scripts everything
Yes he did and it says for a fact he did. He was able to drain planets and by the way? The Ancients used a ship to blow up planets...an electrical weapon. They never did it on their own powers.
And Palpatine had access to just about everything. Including the spirits themselves. It's an actual quote that he learned everything they did and invented his own abilities. So, yes...everything the Ancients had was his knowledge.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yes he did and it says for a fact he did. He was able to drain planets and by the way? The Ancients used a ship to blow up planets...an electrical weapon. They never did it on their own powers.And Palpatine had access to just about everything. Including the spirits themselves. It's an actual quote that he learned everything they did and invented his own abilities. So, yes...everything the Ancients had was his knowledge.
The ancients used ships to blow up planets, so? Sidious can't blow up planets using the force so your point is irrelevant. Nihilus' technique which was on a greater scale than Sidious', was derived from the ancient sith(most likely learned on Malachor V). Ragnos' scepter was able drain planets of the force and give force abilities to anybody, while also being his sword,meaning his scepter was a multipurpose tool and since he created the scepter or even the magic behind it, there's no reason to say, "Omz he used a scepter that means he can't do it normally".
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
The ancients used ships to blow up planets, so?
So there is no technique to master. There is no blowing up a star technique. ESB said "l0l but h3 c4n't bl0w up a st4r", well, neither could the Ancient Sith.
Sidious can't blow up planets using the force so your point is irrelevant.
He never even made a point about Sidious knowing it. So your response was invalid.