No Sama, my point was they used amulets for techniques that COULDNT be developed any other way, like the blast or the tearing of the core. The ancient sith focused their dark side energies into amulets and temples, that doesn't mean they needed them. I agree they created certain techniques for which the amulets were beneficial, but there's nothing to suggest that something like the force drain, needed a scepter.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No Sama, my point was they used amulets for techniques that COULDNT be developed any other way, like the blast or the tearing of the core.
The Ancient Sith cannot create DBZ blasts without an amulet. The Ancient Sith cannot cause solar manipulations without a ship.
The ancient sith focused their dark side energies into amulets and temples, that doesn't mean they needed them.
No, the amulet turns dark rage in one's heart and the amulet allows that dark rage to focus "unleashing tremendous energies". They need the amulet to focus that dark rage and turn it into an energy blast.
I agree they created certain techniques for which the amulets were beneficial, but there's nothing to suggest that something like the force drain, needed a scepter.
I wasn't arguing that, if you'll notice I only addressed the causing solar manipulations. That is not a technique that Sadow can do without his ship. Just like Sadow nor Kun is able to produce blasts with no amulet. I'm sure they are able to do a Force drain without a scepter.
Originally posted by Advent
The Ancient Sith cannot create DBZ blasts without an amulet. The Ancient Sith cannot cause solar manipulations without a ship.
Uh wtf, that's what I said.
No, the amulet turns dark rage in one's heart and the amulet allows that dark rage to focus "unleashing tremendous energies". They need the amulet to focus that dark rage and turn it into an energy blast.
Again, that's what I said. The amulets were used for abilities that were unable to be performed by anybody themselves.. This doesn't include the scepter and the force drain.
I wasn't arguing that, if you'll notice I only addressed the causing solar manipulations. That is not a technique that Sadow can do without his ship. Just like Sadow nor Kun is able to produce blasts with no amulet. I'm sure they are able to do a Force drain without a scepter.
Lol so you just posted to agree with me? Awesome
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Uh wtf, that's what I said.Again, that's what I said. The amulets were used for abilities that were unable to be performed by anybody themselves.. This doesn't include the scepter and the force drain.
Lol so you just posted to agree with me? Awesome
I suggest you remember this, lol, the next time you argue with me on the same topic.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You argue that the ancient sith are nothing with their amulets(or at least that's what I remember), or they can't perform without their amulets, while I argue that they created their amulets to do unthinkable things, things that havent been matched by any living force user.
Uh, you just agreed with Sama that the Ancient Sith can't do their amulet blasts without the amulets in question. You also agreed that they can't cause solar flares without their ships.
You just confessed that they are incapable of performing their most powerful and most spectacular feats without the assistance of their Sith technology.
So, I wonder what that means for people like NJO Luke and Sidious, who are uber-powerful and are not dependant on technology...
The Temples, amulets, ships were focal points for the force. This by definition usually (and I say usually due to people can learn the ability to focus without them) means that it amplifies their existing "strength".
By this alone, and because we have seen no evidence (Which of course does not exclude the possibility - Just because we have not seen it, does not mean it does not exist.) We can only assume (and yes I know that when you do this you make an ass out of u and me) that they were unable to accomplish the feats they managed without said "trinket"
As displayed in the Jedi Academy trilogy. Dorsk 81 was able to hurl 17??? Star Destroyers out of the Yavin system. However in doing so, he also burnt himself to a cinder. Why? Because he used the design of the temple which was created as a focul point, to draw the force from all around and using himself as the conduit to direct it at the SD's.
However, the point I make with that statement, is that it would have been impossible for him to do so, without the assistance of the Temple providing the focusing ability to allow it to pour directly through him.
I hope that this may make things just a little clearer or it could muddy the water even more.
Originally posted by Escape81
Uh, you just agreed with Sama that the Ancient Sith can't do their amulet blasts without the amulets in question. You also agreed that they can't cause solar flares without their ships.You just confessed that they are incapable of performing their most powerful and most spectacular feats without the assistance of their Sith technology.
So, I wonder what that means for people like NJO Luke and Sidious, who are uber-powerful and are not dependant on technology...
Yes, I just agreed that they created techniques which are unable to be performed without amulets. And I made it CLEAR that these techniques were NEVER replicated. You're arguing something totally different, like Luke and Sidous doing stuff without technology. Show me where either one of them(I'm sure Luke has actually) has performed an amulet type feat without anything?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yes, I just agreed that they created techniques which are unable to be performed without amulets. And I made it CLEAR that these techniques were NEVER replicated. You're arguing something totally different, like Luke and Sidous doing stuff without technology. Show me where either one of them(I'm sure Luke has actually) has performed an amulet type feat without anything?
You're missing the point. I never argued that Luke or Sidious could perform those feats, either, without those amulets. Sidious, of course, possessed knowledge of those feats - but most likely couldn't replicate them himself without the technology.
What I did argue is that Luke and Sidious are more powerful than the Ancient Sith, simply because the greatest feats that the Sith performed were dependant on technology that boosted their Force powers. Sidious and Luke didn't require such technological assistance, and yet they performed mighty feats.
sidious didnt even master his force storm properly look at him, luke messes his concentration and focus his power and pow sidious gets killed by his own feat.
wait didnt sidious ever recovered a sith amulet before? when he did what did he do with them
o ya and lightsnake. i know ur a big fan of sidious and luke and i know y you would say sidious is the so called best of the dark lords.
in terms of raw power yes because he learnt alot of ancient sith techniques. but his cockiness is his downfall as luke slices his hand off in DE
and sidious cant use storm in a head to head fight because it will kill them both
and strongest dark lord? wouldnt nihilus completely own sidious?
sidious has force drain too but it wouldnt work on nihilus because he is a wound
sidious didnt even master his force storm properly look at him, luke messes his concentration and focus his power and pow sidious gets killed by his own feat.
Wrong. Sidious attempted to use it, but Luke, Leia, and Anakin Solo combined their Force connection, and temporarily cut him off from the Force. Can you even begin to quantify that power? The Skywalkers have the strongest connection to the Force that we have seen in the EU. And it took three of them to do that.
wait didnt sidious ever recovered a sith amulet before? when he did what did he do with them
Never said that he did. But the Dark Empire sourcebook and comics specifically state that Palpatine possessed all of the Ancient Sith's knowledge, and more - meaning he knew everything that they did - and he had his own knowledge.
o ya and lightsnake. i know ur a big fan of sidious and luke and i know y you would say sidious is the so called best of the dark lords.
Best? How do you define best? By sheer accomplishments alone, Palpatine > all other Sith Lords. He took over the galaxy, exterminated the Jedi, and created the most powerful military regime in the history of the galaxy. So he is, without a doubt, the greatest.
Most powerful? Yeah, that too.
in terms of raw power yes because he learnt alot of ancient sith techniques. but his cockiness is his downfall as luke slices his hand off in DE
He learned all of the Ancient Sith's techniques, and his own original ones. As far as his arrogance (which I agree that he is), it is a psychological trait. Doesn't exactly limit his power.
and sidious cant use storm in a head to head fight because it will kill them both
Um... Re-read Dark Empire again. Palpatine can manipulate the size of the Force Storm. In fact, don't you recall that he attempted to use it on Luke and Leia when he was in the same room with them?
No. He can use it in the same room.
and strongest dark lord? wouldnt nihilus completely own sidious?
sidious has force drain too but it wouldnt work on nihilus because he is a wound
Uh... no. Because the Exile owned Nihilius. And nothing is there to suggest that the Exile is superhumanly powerful compared to other Force users.
Originally posted by ESB Vader
sidious didnt even master his force storm properly look at him, luke messes his concentration and focus his power and pow sidious gets killed by his own feat.wait didnt sidious ever recovered a sith amulet before? when he did what did he do with them
o ya and lightsnake. i know ur a big fan of sidious and luke and i know y you would say sidious is the so called best of the dark lords.
in terms of raw power yes because he learnt alot of ancient sith techniques. but his cockiness is his downfall as luke slices his hand off in DE
and sidious cant use storm in a head to head fight because it will kill them both
and strongest dark lord? wouldnt nihilus completely own sidious?
sidious has force drain too but it wouldnt work on nihilus because he is a wound
I want you to STOP ignoring what I say:
He mastered his force storm fine. He used three of them no problem until his force connection was cut off...and by their NATURE, the force storms are supposed to be uncontrollable.
Palpatine recovered tons of Sith artifacts. He learned what he could from them
Palpatine's capable of several things: A force storm would destroy his body, but since he's immortal, no worries for his spirit. Tough luck for the other guy...also, if Palpatine was still able to use the force when he used a force storm, he'd be able to make it so it ripped the other guy to pieces-he can make it as small as a person or big as a fleet- but didn't harm him...like he did when he transported Luke to Byss. And Palpatine has a lot more than force drain for Nihilus. Just about every dark side power ever, so Nihilus's force drain wouldn't work on the man with the defense and the power and the countless other nasty little attacks to kill a man instantly. Including reaching out to shut down someone's body, which isn't something Nihilus can eat...or simply slamming him headfirst into the wall upteen times, Nihilus is mortal after all. Hell, if the game is any indication, gameplay allows force attacks to work
moreover, Palpatine has countless techniques in his arsenal, he doesn't need to fall back on a force storm
lmfao force drain DOESNT work on nihilus simply because hes a wound and wouldnt it backfire? that would weaken sidious allowing Nihilus to finish sidious with a lightsaber attack or a simple force feat or drain him.
and there is no defense for the force drain other than lukes removal loops.
see? u prove to urself ur a fanboy of sidious.
u can try to argue but ill tell you ill hand you ur ass.
exile simply defeated nihilus because nihilus was terribly weakend after his drain backfired,
sidious is WHOLE not a wound so the drain will kill him. and would sidious have time to make a force strom? no he wont because if he tries he gets drained
lmfao force drain DOESNT work on nihilus simply because hes a wound and wouldnt it backfire? that would weaken sidious allowing Nihilus to finish sidious with a lightsaber attack or a simple force feat or drain him.
a. Who said that Sidious would try to drain the Force from Nihilus?
b. Who said that, even if he tried to, that it would backfire?
and there is no defense for the force drain other than lukes removal loops.
Several Force users use Force Drain all the time without lethal effect, or a permenant effect, meaning that there is a defense against it. Also, Nihilus tried to strip Traya of her power, but it didn't work on her. Considering how Sidious > Traya by about a mile, I don't know if it'll work on him, either.
see? u prove to urself ur a fanboy of sidious.
u can try to argue but ill tell you ill hand you ur ass.
Excuse me? Is your ego in over-drive here? You're hardly a top notch debater.
exile simply defeated nihilus because nihilus was terribly weakend after his drain backfired,
Yup. And I wonder if that happens with Sidious...
sidious is WHOLE not a wound so the drain will kill him. and would sidious have time to make a force strom? no he wont because if he tries he gets drained
Proof?