Who would win in a fight: Legolas or Aragorn?

Started by shadowy_blue7 pages

Originally posted by The Inkeeper
I dont think legolas is too old, why he was sent on behalf of elves is beyond me.

I mean think about it, your in Rivendell holding a counsel and need a strong and capable elf, so they sent Legolas. Its not like he was their only choice being in a huge elf settlement.


Legolas, along with Gimli and Boromir were sent because they all arrived with news, or for counsel, just before the Council of Elrond, so it seemed they were involved in these matters by fate, just as Frodo was. It is not by coincidence that Boromir had a dream, that Legolas came to report that Gollum had fled from Mirkwood at the same time as Gimli came to consult Elrond. They were meant to come together. Also, they were all leaders of the younger generation: Legolas son of the king, Gimli son of Gloin of the Lonely Mountains, Boromir son of the ruler of Gondor. Young enough to go questing, but leader enough to represent their kindreds. It would have made sense to send Glorfindel, or Elladan or Elrohir, but I think Elrond suspected that the north would be attacked and they would need their leaders. The Fellowship already had Gandalf. Not to mention that there's that "9" thing, and Merry and Pippin were already dead set on going.
Originally posted by Dresta
actually legolas is something like 4 or 5 thousand years old and the son of the king of mirkwood.

Legolas' exact age was NEVER stated by Tolkien. We can only speculate through some of Legolas' recollections and family history. But he's definitely NOT 4 or 5 thousand years old. Yes, he would certainly be old compared to the rest of the Fellowship, but as an Elf, he's still in his "tweens". For more info, go here.

Just because he's immortal, it doesn't mean that he has lived as long as the other Elves have.

As for the hair:

Tolkien never specified what Legolas' hair color was, nor do I think that he ever intended to, so we're all screwed. It might very well be punkish orange with blue highlights for all we know. The point is, trying to figure out Legolas' hair color is like trying to figure out how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop. "The world may never know." It all just comes down to personal preference.

Having said that, I prefer my Leggy as a blondie, since I've always seen him that way.

For one, if you're going to bank on him following a genetic trend, the only possibility we're given is blonde, his father's hair color. His father had blonde hair, so it's a *possible* genetic trend. If the elven genome in Tolkien's Middle-earth is the same as ours, blonde hair is recessive and we limit the possibilities of his mother's hair to blonde or brown/brunnete, Legolas could have either 100% chance (mother's hair being blonde), 50% chance (mother's hair being brown but carrying the recessive blonde trait), or 0% chance (mother's hair is brown without carrying the recessive blonde trait). Then again, Legolas' mother could have had silver hair or, though much less likely, red hair. This is all rather complicated and is based on many assumptions.

Second, simply living in a community of brown haired people does not make you and your family have brown hair. Since we know that Thranduil had blonde hair, although he is Sindarin, the question of Thranduil's ancestry comes into this. Perhaps his mother or grandmother was of the kindred of the Vanyar, but an Avari who never went to Valinor.

And third:

"Frodo looked up at the Elf standing tall above him, as he gazed into the night, seeking a mark to shoot at. His head was dark, crowned with sharp white stars that glittered in the black pools of the sky behind."

-- The Great River, FOTR.

It was pitch-black at the time; Legolas could not even see what it was he shot, and his eyes are better than Frodo's. I don't think that the darkness there has anything to do with his hair.

But like I said, it's all up to our imagination.

funny how this went from who would win in a fight....to the colour of leggy's hair 🤨

Yeah. 😐

But in fairness, I don't think we ever had a "Legolas' hair color" thread before, whereas we already had two fight threads. 😐

^s-b, I couldn't agree more with everything you (or tolkien) said...🙂

The queen has returned.shock
😛

LOL, thanks. hug

I appreciate the title "queen", thank you so much ( 😄 ) though I certainly think lots of people deserve that title too. ✅ And "king" no less, which you deserve also. 😄

This forum is loaded with amazing minds. 😍

Aragorn IMO

Originally posted by shadowy_blue
Yeah. 😐

But in fairness, I don't think we ever had a "Legolas' hair color" thread before, whereas we already had two fight threads. 😐

you know you're right....no one did ever come out with a thread on legolas' hair colour
Originally posted by shadowy_blue
LOL, thanks. hug

I appreciate the title "queen", thank you so much ( 😄 ) though I certainly think lots of people deserve that title too. ✅ And "king" no less, which you deserve also. 😄

This forum is loaded with amazing minds. 😍

hey...i feel i should be queen if for a day.....😛

😆 indeed you should fea!

well why would legolas say that fanghorn forest is so old that it almost makes him feel young again if he was young for an elf. because if he was young for an elf i doubt that he would feel old.

Aragorn would win, hands down, because he's had much more battle experience, and is a descendant of Warrior Kings.

But then again, these two would never fight, and this thread is made pointless....

Originally posted by JohnnyBloom
😆 indeed you should fea!
😮....hehehehe

Originally posted by Dresta
well why would legolas say that fanghorn forest is so old that it almost makes him feel young again if he was young for an elf.

What he said was in the context of the Fangorn Forest. Do you know how old Fangorn was? It has been there since the First Age, so it really IS old, even compared to an Elf like Legolas who was born sometime during the late Second Age or early Third Age. That fact made him feel young.
because if he was young for an elf i doubt that he would feel old.

Note that he's talking to Gimli and Aragorn, two people that he's considerably older in comparison to. He even called them "children". He's not talking to another Elf.

I never denied that he really is old compared to the other creatures that he's in company with, but he's not a several thousand years old. He's only been in existence for centuries.

Gandalf is much much much much much much much much older.

How about this: Legolas sucks, so Aragorn wins by default.....😛

Yeah, Gandalf is the oldest of course. 🙂

Originally posted by shadowy_blue
What he said was in the context of the Fangorn Forest. Do you know how old Fangorn was? It has been there since the First Age, so it really IS old, even compared to an Elf like Legolas who was born sometime during the late Second Age or early Third Age. That fact made him feel young.

Note that he's talking to Gimli and Aragorn, two people that he's considerably older in comparison to. He even called them "children". He's not talking to another Elf.

I never denied that he really is old compared to the other creatures that he's in company with, but he's not a several thousand years old. He's only been in existence for centuries.

you obviously have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. you say that Legolas was born early third age or late seconde age which would make him about three thousand years old which is what i have been saying all along. there is no way he has only been in existance for centuries.

Re: Who would win in a fight: Legolas or Aragorn?

Originally posted by Murray
This is just a forum to see which one of the two "greatest" warriors in Middle-Earth would win in a battle against each other, even though they would never have one. Give the name and the reason why they would win.

We all love them both, but which one is the superior warrior.

My vote goes to. . . .

LEGOLAS!

He has more weaponry and more of a skill than Aragorn.
He's better with a bow, MUCH better, and he has 2 knives to circulate around and get anyone.

What do you think?

Legolas

Aragorn would have a chance if he could get pass one of Legolas' arrows but 10 to 1 that's not gonna happen.

Originally posted by Dresta
you obviously have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Obviously? Absolutely? Yeah, you probably really know me very well, don't you, Dresta? 😱

Read my other posts in this forum, please. No, not the random ones in Tig Party. The ones that are actually related to LotR. But I bet you wouldn't do that because you obviously know me better than I know myself. And yeah, I doubt you would care enough. It will only damage your argument.

I wasn't thinking very clear when I typed the whole "late Second Age or early Third Age" thing. And no, it doesn't make my argument flawed. Everybody messes up. Obviously, you didn't even read the link that I posted in my original post, so you're forcing your "4 or 5 thousand year old Legolas" in the minds of the people who know better. 🙄 And obviously, you're so dead-on in "embarassing" me and making me look as if I'm in the wrong side of the tracks here by purposely ignoring what I said about Fangorn Forest, etc. and just focusing on the one thing that I messed up on. 🙄

I'd bet that majority of the people here know that Legolas is NOT a thousand years old. If you still want to believe otherwise, then go ahead and imagine him being 4 or 5 thousand years old in your own Legolas world, but forcing it here will be to no avail. We know our Legolas.

there is no way he has only been in existance for centuries.

Yes, there is. As I've been suggesting, read the damn link.

If you still need more...

From this site.

Emphasis mine.

in the writings of Tolkien himself, we've found no explicit references to Legolas' age or personal history prior to the War of the Ring. To answer this question more fully, we must turn to Legolas' recollections and his family history. This approach is problematic, since we can't tell when he's speaking about incidents that happened far away while he was alive, or when he's speaking about events he only knows through the songs and legends of his people.

"It is long since any of my own folk journeyed hither back to the land whence we wandered in ages long ago," said Legolas, "but we hear that Lórien is not yet deserted, for there is a secret power here that holds evil from the land. Nevertheless its folk are seldom seen, and maybe they dwell now deep in the woods and far from the northern border."
-- Lothlórien, FOTR.

It sounds as if Legolas was not alive when his folk still "journeyed hither back to the land whence we came", but it's hard to tell. The fact that Legolas never shows any suspicion or hostility towards Galadriel and Celeborn suggests he was born after the doubts and resentments that led his family to move north in the middle of the Second Age had died down. That pushes Legolas' birthdate up to the latter part of the Second Age at the earliest. Now we get to a sticky problem.

"It is told that she [Nimrodel] had a house built in the branches of a tree that grew near the falls; for that was the custom of the Elves of Lórien, to dwell in the trees, and maybe it is so still. Therefore they were called the Galadhrim, the Tree-people. Deep in their forest the trees are very great. The people of the woods did not delve in the ground like Dwarves, nor build strong places of stone before the Shadow came."
-- Lothlórien, FOTR.

Here we have a quote with a firm date: the Balrog arose in Moria in T.A. 1980, and Amroth and Nimrodel were both lost during the resulting chaos in 1981. However, Legolas seems to have made a mistake. He's forgotten the Elvenking's mighty hall of stone. When was it actually built, and why? When the shadow of Dol Guldur fell upon Mirkwood around T.A. 1000, the Silvan Elves...

retreated before it as it spread ever northward, until at last Thranduil established his realm in the north-east of the forest and delved there a fortress and great halls underground. Oropher was of Sindarin origin, and no doubt Thranduil his son was following the example of King Thingol long before.
-- Appendix B, The History of Galadriel and Celeborn, UT.

Legolas' home is the main "strong place of stone...delved in the ground like Dwarves" among all the Silvan folk; we don't see any such place in Lórien. So he has to have his father's hall in mind. But the event that he says inspired its construction is a thousand years too late. If you assume that the mistake is not Tolkien's, then the most logical explanation is that Legolas was born well after the deaths of Amroth and Nimrodel, long enough for them to be a poignant legend, for the Balrog to be blamed even for things that had nothing to do with him, and for any family grumbling regarding Celeborn and Galadriel (who took charge of Lórien after this event) to have died down. We know the issue was still sensitive at the time, but Legolas seems blissfully ignorant of the politics of the period.

Legolas has also never been to the Golden Wood before. If he were older than two thousand, he'd predate Dol Guldur, and would have been living closer to Lórien. You'd think he'd have visited his closest kin and neighbors at least once, to deliver messages or pay his respects to King Amroth, an old family friend! After all, Legolas left Mirkwood with (he thought) a distressing but minor matter: the escape of a prisoner whose importance was not understood. I simply cannot believe he would never have visited Lórien before it became dangerous to go that way. So I'm putting his birth after Dol Guldur, and feel pretty confident that it's necessary to do so. That pushes his birthdate past T.A. 1000, making him less than two thousand years old: younger than any other elf named in the story. And again, there was enough contact between Lórien and Mirkwood for the Woodland Realm to hear details about Amroth and Nimrodel a thousand years later, so someone was still travelling between them even then. But it wasn't Legolas.

That's another hint, but only a hint, that Legolas postdates their deaths. Are there any more clues that can help us?

Well, we have Tolkien's habit of making parallel generations in closely-allied families: Tuor and Huor, Túrin and Húrin. The pattern here is less obvious, but King Amdir of Lórien and King Oropher of Mirkwood are both Sindar princes of Silvan Elves who moved east at the same time, died in the same war, and were succeeded by sons of the same age. If Amroth and Nimrodel hadn't died during the mess following the Dwarves' discovery of a Balrog in Moria, their children would have been born less than a thousand years before ROTK, and Legolas would be the same generation as their kids. So there's a fourth clue pointing in the same direction.

But if we assume that Tolkien did not make a mistake, and that all these clues are not coincidence, then it seems Legolas was born after the tale had been glamorized into legend. That makes him less than eight or nine hundred years old, though old enough to have seen five hundred autumns. Say seven hundred.

Nothing was proved official, but more than one clues are presented to support that Legolas is no more than a thousand years.

Personally, I can't see a 4 or 5 thousand year old Legolas there.

I feel like I'm trying so hard to support my case, and I wanna lighten up. 😱

Dresta, you keep persisting that Legolas is very old, but just for fun, can you give us some reason in any form why you're dead set on believing such? I'm rather curious for a reason other than because he felt young compared to the Fangorn Forest (I already stated my reason why). And no, other than because he's immortal and an Elf either (being immortal and an Elf are not exclusive to being a several thousand years old). 😄