Trinity or not.

Started by Shakyamunison11 pages

Originally posted by Jury
When Jesus indeed was claiming to be the Son of God, many people really thought that He was claiming to be God. Misconception. Misunderstanding. They didn't had the Spirit to acknowledge the Truth Jesus was saying.

To be the Son of God doesn't necessarily mean to be God also. That's what they didn't understand. Jesus is a Man. Yet God claimed Him to be His Son. Because He was God's set purpose before the foundation of the world. Being a Man proves that He is not God. Because God is not a man. And any man can never be God. Even Jesus. So there's no God-Man as other imply.

One of the main reasons the Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah is because the Messiah must be a human, not a god. Jesus was a man and not God, therefore he was the true Messiah and God. But so am I, and so are you.

As long as the Bible doesn't say Jesus is God, I will not believe He is God. I believe in what Jesus said, "Father... this is the eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God..."... Hence, according to Jesus Christ Himself, the Father is the only true God... not the Son... not the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by Jury
As long as the Bible doesn't say Jesus is God, I will not believe He is God. I believe in what Jesus said, "Father... this is the eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God..."... Hence, according to Jesus Christ Himself, the Father is the only true God... not the Son... not the Holy Spirit.

I am not good at finding scripture, but I believe that he also said that we are all gods. Maybe you can find the passage.

Yes, in some other ways, a man can be called "god", "lord", "master" whatever... but surely it is not what we are dfiscussing in this thread. 🙂

This thread is about Trinity. And it upholds that the Godship of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is ONE.... and each supposedly God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

BUt Jesus is not saying the same. He proclaimed that the Father is the one and only true God.

Definitely not Jesus Himself who is the Son, not the Holy Spirit... and surely not all of us. 🙂

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am not good at finding scripture, but I believe that he also said that we are all gods. Maybe you can find the passage.

Jesus was speaking to others when he said "you say you are gods"

What does the Bible reveal on the issue?

“Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made Himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in apperance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death-even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Philippians 2:6-11 NIV

“Jesus said to them, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58

By relying on Old Testament references, we find out that “I AM” refers to the name of God Himself, Yahweh (often translated in English Bibles as LORD with all capitals). The Jews were quite familiar with the idea that the Jehovah of the Old Testament is the eternally existent God. What was new to the Jews, was the identification of this designation with Jesus. They screamed blasphemy!

"Philip said to Him, 'Lord show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.' Jesus said to him, 'Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "Show us the Father"?'" John 14:8,9

Jesus answered,... I and My Father are one.' Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. "Jesus answered them, 'Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?' The Jews answered Him, saying, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make yourself God.'" John 10:25-33

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist." Colossians 1:15-17

"When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, 'Son, your sins are forgiven you.' But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 'Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?'" Mark 2:5-7

"Of whom (the Jewish people) are the fathers and from whom, acording to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen." Romans 9:5

“Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.” Titus 2:13

"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given understanding, that we may know him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." 1 John 5:20

John who is an eyewitness of Jesus Christ, makes no hesitation in calling him God!

As often as Jesus speaks of His relations with His Father, He uses constantly and without exception the expression “My Father,” and as often as He calls the attention of the disciples to their childlike relation to God, there is the equally definite characterization “Your Father.” Never does He associate Himself with the disciples and with men by the natural form of speech “Our Father.”

Jesus Christ will (once again) reveal Himself at the second coming, not as a sacrificial lamb, but as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords to destroy the Antichrist and end man’s cruel rule on earth with His heavenly hosts. What an awesome display of power for a mere man!

No concept of Trinity in those verses. Those verses didn't prove that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, made up ONE TRUE GOD.

Buddha did not claim to have a special relationship with God. In fact, Buddha did not consider the matter of God's existence to be important, because it did not pertain to the issue of how to escape suffering. Buddha claimed to point to the way by which we could escape suffering and attain enlightenment. Buddha taught that the way to eliminate suffering was by eliminating desire.

Jesus did claim to have a special relationship with God (John 3:16; 6:44; 10:30; 14:6,9). Jesus claimed to be the way by which we could receive salvation and eternal life ( John 14:6; 5:35). Jesus taught that the solution to suffering is found not in eliminatinig desire but in having right desire (Matthew 5:6).

This is common knowledge.

If you do something against me, I have the right to forgive you. However, if you do something against me and somebody else comes along and says, "I forgive you," what kind of cheek is that? The only person who can say that sort of thing meaningfully is God Himself, because sin, even if it is against other people, is first and foremost a defiance of God and His laws.

Also, the Old Testament paints a portrait of God by using titles and descriptions as Alpha and Omega, Lord, Savior, King, Judge, Light, Rock, Redeemer, Shepard, Creator, Giver of Life, Forgiver of Sin, and Speaker with Divine Authority.

It's fascinating to note that in the New Testament, each and every one is applied to Jesus Christ.

In a day when many have been decieved about the true nature of Jesus Christ, we ought to remember that heaven is not one iota confused about His identity.

Understood in the light of Exodus 15 and the song of Moses, this verse makes plain that God whom Moses and the children of Israel addressed in the face of their great earthly victory was none other than Jesus Christ. For confirmation of this fact, read selected portions of the great psalm.

Then Moses and the Israelites sang this song to the Lord:

"I will sing to the LORD, for he is highly exalted. The horse and its rider He has hurled into the sea. The LORD is my strength and my song; He has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise Him, my father's God, and I will exalt Him. The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is His name.... You will bring them in and plant them on the mountain of your inheritance-the place, O LORD, you made for your dwelling, the sanctuary, O LORD, your hands established. The LORD will reign for ever and ever." Exodus 15:1-3, 17-18

The fact that these saints combine this song and the song of the Lamb can only be explained on the basis that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. The song of Moses and the Lamb in Revelation 15:3-4 clearly identifies Jesus Christ with the attributes of God Himself. No person or created being has ever been addressed like this. Note the characteristics attributed to Him:

Creation: "Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty."

Justice: "Just and true are your ways."

Object of Worship: "King of the ages. Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name?"

Holiness: "For you alone are holy."

Omnipotence and Eternity: "All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed."

The religionists who, representing modernistic liberlism or the cults and "isms," do not understand who Jesus Christ is. The book of Revelation certainly clarifies His identity, and if for no other reason, it is worthy of study because it does what its introduction predicted. Revelation 1:1 announces "the revelation of Jesus Christ." It is the only book in the world that truly presents Jesus Christ as He really is today.

Sheesh... Christianity is a monotheistic religion. The Christian God does NOT share power and it is blasphemy to worship other Gods and idols. Only God has the authority to forgive the sin of human beings! And yet, here we have Jesus Christ doing so. Jesus Christ holds the keys to Hades for crying out loud and will judge all human beings on Earth! Your views on the deity of Jesus Christ are extremely short sighted. No pun intended.

Yes, the Father - being the one and only true God - is the only One who can forgive sins. Jesus personally cannot do that. He cannot do that without the Father. Meaning, the Father has given Him authority to forgive sins. The Father has inherent authority while Jesus has given authority. Very big difference. If Jesus is God Himself, He shouldn't have needed the Father to forgive our sins.

Again, the verses cited above doesn't prove that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is ONE TRUE GOD.

The Trinity still contradicts what Jesus has proclaimed that the Father alone is the one and only true God.

🙂

Again, the verses cited above doesn't prove that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is ONE TRUE GOD.
doesnt say it aint so either

Originally posted by Jury
Again, the verses cited above doesn't prove that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is ONE TRUE GOD.

The Trinity still contradicts what Jesus has proclaimed that the Father alone is the one and only true God.

🙂

Well, Jesus said I and the Father are One....Meaning that we and the father/god are one also....we are one with It...Jesus was probably just telling us how it is......We're all connected...not separate.

"I and my Father are one" is a different case as of the Trinity.

Jesus has clarified why did He say "I and my Father are one". Well, He's not saying they're one of being God.

can be interpreted either way

The Bible was clear before Jesus said "I and my Father are one"... He was saying that His Father was caring for His flock.. and He also cares for God's flock... Hence, they are one of taking care for the flock. Not of being God.

again thats your view on it, others have different view on that subject and neither is more right or wrong...I know you gonna come with the gibberish about you are a true christian int he church of christ and the others are all wrong, forget it man your way is nothing but your way no more right than other`s view on this matter.

I'm just telling what the Bible is telling. It's not my own view. You can read it yourself.

I'm just telling what the Bible is telling. It's not my own view. You can read it yourself.
so you take the entire bible literally?

The Bible is obvious about when it is telling literally or symbolically.