Trinity or not.

Started by debbiejo11 pages

Jesus as a myth
The existence of Gnosticism and various mystery religions, with close similarities to Christianity, has led the mythological school to suggest that Christianity was strongly influenced by these, essentially building a mystery religion on the foundation of a Judaic tradition (syncretism). This would have included linking the two through Jesus' attempts to fulfill Old Testament prophecies, or else for later writers to claim that he did. More generally it would have included mythologising a Jewish leader into a Son of God, and a representative of wisdom and knowledge. Some have argued that, due to what they claim is a lack of physical evidence, he may never have existed outside the mythological realm at all.

THOUGH I THINK JESUS WAS A REAL MAN....MAY HAVE EVEN RESURRECTED......

Originally posted by cking
the apostles didn't say they copied it but witnessed the things of Jesus and if was a false teachings then Jesus was a made of character and both of us would be doomed. when Pilate had Jesus in his room, he said to Jesus that he has the key to life and death over him, but Jesus said, you don't have nothing over me but only the father of up above. It wasn't people hurting him it was God and he determined his son's death. God used the Romans to whip him because of sin and every whip was like sin itself. Jesus suffered both physically and spiritually. I read that information but still it lacks alot and jesus warned of false teachings and false religions. jesus could be saying this to Horus. people want you to think that it was written before jesus and want you to think that the new testament is a lie and tell you jesus was a made up character and his death was in vain. Trying to read this Horus is too confusing and it only hurts a person and it takes away the real truth from that person. people can't be naive and believe everything and if so then people will never find success because they try and believe stuff not told in the bible. all believers should understand the bible only and not from regular people who don't believe and say they know the real truth.

I'm sorry to tell you this; the bible was written by men, regular people. Sometimes they made mistakes and sometimes they got it right. But, please believe as you will, forgive me if I have upset you.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Jesus as a myth
THOUGH I THINK JESUS WAS A REAL MAN....MAY HAVE EVEN RESURRECTED......

I will tell you a secret, but don't tell anyone. We all get resurrected all the time. Everyone misunderstood Jesus, he was telling us about reincarnation.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I will tell you a secret, but don't tell anyone. We all get resurrected all the time. Everyone misunderstood Jesus, he was telling us about reincarnation.

I've read about that...yes..

no, god used people to spread his word, because God cannot appear in his regular form or else the people will die. Jesus DID resurrect, if you go to Jerusalem you can find his tomb and it is empty and no to this day can say we have found jesus body. these prophets CANNOT make mistakes and if do they would be killed, they are lead by the spirit instead of themselves. alot of people wanted physical evidence when jesus was on earth, but jesus didn't allow them because they would never believe him anyway and would have found more reasons to kill him. jesus had another name called Emanuel which means god is with us and Isaiah talks about Jesus more than any book. jesus was real and he will come back like he said and make all things new. The bible is not physical evidence it is your belief you think it is true or not. it is easy to say it is not real but it is and more people are finding more artifacts that are more evidence to the writings.

Jesus never taught about reincarnation. resurrection is the life being brought back to the body not the body changing into another person or to begin a different life but a body that is more efficient than when it was alive

Reincarnation and the Hebrew Religion

The first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrote about the Pharisees being believers in reincarnation. The Pharisees were the Jewish sect which Paul belonged to before his NDE and conversion to Christianity. Josephus wrote about the Pharisees' belief that the souls of evil men are punished after death. But the souls of good men are "removed into other bodies" and they will have "power to revive and live again."

From time to time throughout Jewish history, there was a persistent belief about dead prophets returning to life through reincarnation. But the Sadducees, a purist sect of Judaism, rejected the Persian concepts of resurrection and all Hellenistic influences involving reincarnation that was happening in Jesus' day. The Sadducees accepted only the orthodox Hebrew belief in Sheol. So there were a variety of influences going on in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus.

When Jesus began his ministry, many people wondered if he was the reincarnation of one of the prophets. Some people wondered the same thing concerning John the Baptist. And even Jesus affirmed to his disciples that John the Baptist was indeed the reincarnation of the prophet Elijah. Throughout his ministry, Jesus taught people about the true resurrection - a spiritual rebirth within a living person. Thus, when Jesus stated that he was the resurrection and the life, he was teaching them a radical new principle. It was a rebirth of the spirit - not into a new body - as when we are born from our mother's womb - but a rebirth of our spirit within the body we now inhabit. Jesus was distinguishing between what was already believed in those days concerning the afterlife and a new teaching concerning a spiritual change within us that can lead to liberation. He was making a distinction between "the resurrection of the body" (returning to life from physical death) and "the resurrection of the spirit" (returning to life from spiritual death). As you will soon see, this confusion concerning Jesus teachings is documented in John 3 when Jesus had to explain to Nicodemus the difference between physical rebirth and spiritual rebirth.

Reincarnation and Early Christianity

The first great Father of the early orthodox Church was Origen (A.D. 185-254) who was the first person since Paul to develop a system of theology around the teachings of Jesus. Origen was an ardent defender of pre-existence and reincarnation. Pre-existence is the religious concept of the soul as not being created at birth; rather the soul existed before birth in heaven or in a past life on earth. Origen taught that pre-existence is found in Hebrew scriptures and the teachings of Jesus.

Origen was a disciple of Clement of Alexandria who was a disciple of the apostle Peter. Clement and Origen wrote about receiving secret teachings of Jesus handed down from the apostles. One of these secret teachings was the concept of physical and spiritual rebirth. The existence of secret teachings and mysteries from Jesus is recorded in the Bible. Here are some of them:

He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance." (Matt. 13:11-12)

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness - the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Col. 1:25-27)

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51)

The doctrines of pre-existence and reincarnation existed as secret teachings of Jesus until they were declared a heresy by the Roman Church in 553 A.D. It was at this time that the Roman Church aggressively destroyed competing teachings and so-called heresies within the Church. Along with the destruction of unorthodox teachings came the destruction of Jews, Gnostics, and ultimately anyone who stood in the way of the Inquisition and Crusades.

But on December, 1945, writings containing many of these secrets of early Christianity were unearthed in upper Egypt. This area was one of the the main locations where Christians fled to when the Romans invaded Israel. It was here that these secrets were continued to be taught. Undisturbed since their concealment almost two thousand years ago, these writings of the secret teachings belonged to a early sect of Christians called Gnostics and these writings ranked in importance with the Dead Sea Scrolls which were discovered two years later. These so-called secret teachings concerning life and death are strikingly similar to what we know about near-death experiences.

He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance." (Matt. 13:11-12)

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness - the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Col. 1:25-27)

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51)

JUST THOUGHT I'D GIVE YOU THIS PORTION, JUST IN CASE YOU DON'T READ IT ALL...

the Sadducee's never believed in angels or even heaven. but the Pharisees did. many people thought he was a reincarnation of older prophets. no Jesus didn't exactly teach that john the baptist is Elijah coming back but he has the spirit of Elijah with him and did many things similar to Elijah but he never said he was Elijah but john with the spirit of Elijah. when Elijah went to heaven, Elisha the successor wanted a double share of his spirit and Elijah would grant him if only if he saw him go into heaven. when he did he left his cloak on the ground and used it and he cut the Jordan river in half like Elijah did. did many miracles like Elijah did. Jesus said he would come back to set things right. john came in the spirit of Elijah and it is very possible it is Elijah but with a different name. God can send people to earth as different people with names, but he only did it during that time. this isn't reincarnating. it is simply people form heaven coming down to earth as different people. john did have the spirit form birth and no human besides Jesus had the spirit from birth, so really it is Elijah but with a different name. it only came to just to be the forerunner for Jesus.

Originally posted by cking
so you are saying Jesus is not God. then who is he if he wasn't, you tell me? can anyone take beatings like him? can anyone teach like him?

Actualy I belive it was Celsus who took a very critical look at the beatings Jesus took.He complains that if the Christians were going to copy the God man story to their liking they should have at least done it better.I can't remember the name of the Pagan prophet,but celsus tells us the story of his beating was even fiercer than that of the Christians Christ.As a guard went to break his leg he looked up at the guard.The guard began to twist his leg and the prophet told him "you're breaking it.And after it broke he told the guard I told you so.Celsus also mentions others.I try to find them.

Jesus suffered god judgement on the cross in both a physical and spiritual state. Jesus said that no man has the ability to kill him unless it was from God. so Jesus could be ran over by a car and still not be killed because God himself has to decide. Jesus could have not died on the cross. Jesus could have died later if God wanted to.

Re: Trinity or not.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
The catholic Trinity cult is based on the Verses in John 1.1 which goes something like "and word is GOD".

But there are numerous occasions where Jesus prays to his father, this plus the fact that no one can see god and live tends to contradict this direction of though.

What do you all think?

The Greek word logos should be in it's feminine form sophia like it is in proverbs. Logos is the masculine form of the word sophia which means wisdom. That verse says in the beginning was wisdom and wisdom was with God and Wisdom was God. If they are going to use a trinity to describe god they should consider the holy ghost to be a woman.It's not true and it doesn't make sense but that's what they teavch and if they can't explain something they just say god can do anything, it's a mistery.

I believe that Trinity came from what today is considered occultism, and what have many origins Jewish, Egyptian, Indian mysticism and more.
They divide the human being in 7 levels of the soul, the three upper levels are considered divine. So the Trinity could be from there.

Originally posted by cking
no, god used people to spread his word, because God cannot appear in his regular form or else the people will die. Jesus DID resurrect, if you go to Jerusalem you can find his tomb and it is empty and no to this day can say we have found jesus body. these prophets CANNOT make mistakes and if do they would be killed, they are lead by the spirit instead of themselves. alot of people wanted physical evidence when jesus was on earth, but jesus didn't allow them because they would never believe him anyway and would have found more reasons to kill him. jesus had another name called Emanuel which means god is with us and Isaiah talks about Jesus more than any book. jesus was real and he will come back like he said and make all things new. The bible is not physical evidence it is your belief you think it is true or not. it is easy to say it is not real but it is and more people are finding more artifacts that are more evidence to the writings.
I don't think god possesed his prophets and toook away their freedom of will. They made mistakes just like anybody else, david commited adultry with bathsheba and had her husband killed, soloman had hundreds of wives etc. Prophets are people too.

true, but they CANNOT make a mistake concerning prophecy and if they did they would either be killed by god for disobeying, just one prophet did when God sent a lion to kill one in the book of kings. or they would be stoned to death for false prophecy, false prophet and maybe blaspheming god.

Originally posted by cking
God is the father, Jesus his son, and the holy spirit are all in one.
Originally posted by cking
yes, the bible doesn't say anything about that, but they are three different persons into one.
A Nicene view.
Originally posted by cking
God is the father, Jesus son and savior, holy spirit the helper. all Christians have the spirit and nonbelievers don't. God is with that person only because of Jesus.
Yes. But that's not implying Trinity.

God is not the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
God is not Trinity.
Only the Father is the true God.

I've learned this from Christ. (John 17:1-3)

Actually the word "Trinity" is not mentioned in the OT...It's only assumed...But the Trinity did appear as a Great Goddess and the model for all subsequent Trinities, female, male or mixed..Starting in the 7th millennium B.C.

Jesus Christ was put on trial not because of His good works, but His claimed identity. The Jews knew the magnitude of Jesus Christ calling Himself the Son of God. They screamed blasphemy!

Christianity is a monotheistic religion. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of the same essence. God transcends, and is not subjected and limited to 4 dimensions as we human beings. That is precisely why we human beings cannot fully grasp the concept.

If Jesus Christ wasn't God reincarnate humbling Himself to carry out perfect ministry and sacrifice for all sins of human beings, then who was He? If you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, refrain from calling Him the Christ. Instead, call Him Jesus of Nazareth to further compliment your belief.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Jesus Christ was put on trial not because of His good works, but His claimed identity. The Jews knew the magnitude of Jesus Christ calling Himself the Son of God. They screamed blasphemy!

Christianity is a monotheistic religion. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of the same essence. God transcends, and is not subjected and limited to 4 dimensions as we human beings. That is precisely why we human beings cannot fully grasp the concept.

If Jesus Christ wasn't God reincarnate humbling Himself to carry out perfect ministry and sacrifice for all sins of human beings, then who was He? If you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, refrain from calling Him the Christ. Instead, call Him Jesus of Nazareth to further compliment your belief.

I always call him Jesus. Jesus was the incarnate of God, and so was Buddha. Jesus was misunderstood.

When Jesus indeed was claiming to be the Son of God, many people really thought that He was claiming to be God. Misconception. Misunderstanding. They didn't had the Spirit to acknowledge the Truth Jesus was saying.

To be the Son of God doesn't necessarily mean to be God also. That's what they didn't understand. Jesus is a Man. Yet God claimed Him to be His Son. Because He was God's set purpose before the foundation of the world. Being a Man proves that He is not God. Because God is not a man. And any man can never be God. Even Jesus. So there's no God-Man as other imply.