The biggest question lies here.....
Why in the F**king world! is this thread still doing alive!
The Goku fanboys are almost as bad as the Wolverine fanboys and that's pretty bad. I mean i love Goku but.... Evidence>Fanboys common guys....get real...and i remeber reading a post several pages back involving logic...there's no logic when it comes to supes and goku..it's just not logical..lol
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind😱 scared
Supes absorbed the Warhead to this Mageddon.... Earth is smaller than one of the things eyes. This weapon was made to destroy the universe...the primordial annihilator. Destroying planets? ha...
GIDAMN!
Superman punches Goku and kills gohan, goten, pan, bardock . . .
And anything in any reality that shares Goku's blood. . .
And the backlash continues on back to the first saiyan. . . and then continues back wiping out Trunks and Bra. . .
Originally posted by Deus Ex
No really, what the hell are you talking about? I already researched it and found out my initial assumption on his power level was wrong. You'd see that if you bothered to read everything before posting.Secondly, his power level throughout the saga until his death looked like this:
Freeza (form 4 33.3%): 4,000,000
Freeza (form 4 50%): 6,000,000
Freeza (form 4 70%): 8,400,000
Freeza (form 4 100%): 12,000,000So please, stfu. Over a 100 million is hyperbole bullshit.
oh please.. logic alone dictates the power levels to be higher than those pathetic estimates... goku would have had to have been at the very least at or above 2 million just to even touch form 4 frieza... goku was using kioken times 20 and was still getting the bajeezus beat out of him... so a frieza not at 50% power was kicking the crap out of goku at 20million (low estimate)... twice that ALONE put's frieza into the 40million range....
is dbz inconsitent? yes.. do these powerestimate make sense? hell yes... do dbz characters have enough power to take out solar systems? OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAH...
you can calim hyperbole all you want.. but these guys have machines that display power levels.. so I would think frieza to understand his own quite well.... and king kold new he was more powerful than a solar system.. why the **** would he say that to himself when trunks killed him if he was just making it up?...
if anything the use of majin vegeta not blowing up the world but assuming it was due to lack of effort on his part is the most B.S. thing of all here.. GOKU made a blast that was TIMES the size of that during the last episode of dragonball vs. piccolo... goku was at a power level lower than 1,000 hmmmmm interesting....
anyway.. if wonder woman can give superman a good run, supes will be hard pressed (extremely hard pressed at that) to take out goku...
Originally posted by Creshosk
😱 scaredGIDAMN!
Superman punches Goku and kills gohan, goten, pan, bardock . . .
And anything in any reality that shares Goku's blood. . .
And the backlash continues on back to the first saiyan. . . and then continues back wiping out Trunks and Bra. . .
It would be more accurate if they showed Superman being chained up and rendered helpless during the Maggedon struggle and showing Aztek's sacrifice (and damnit if your an Aztek fan you don't forget that type of scene) which "hurt it" enough to give Superman the chance to do escape and go towards the heart looking warhead. Also it wasn't just supes it was every hero along with everyman and woman on earth being turned into a Superhuman. One of my favorite JLA stories and a great Swansong to the Morrison run.
But back to the topic at hand (which seems more like argument at hand) I'd have to go with Goku if he's fighting the post crisis one. Pre-Crisis one is technically god with a cape and he has an answer for everything. He's more pre-crisis than people may like to admit. Goku's that powerful. Goku died on purpose so he can learn a technique (death is different in DBZ... at least for Son it's an inconvience).
What I don't get is the hatred I see for Son Goku here. I love both characters to death but man this borderline racism on this "jap shit" is just disheartening to hear fellow Superman fans say things like that. Goku is the Superman of Japan. his origin is virtually identical with the differences being Kal's wolrd was destroyed by natural means while Planet Vegeta was destroyed by Frieza (yes an example that a planet in Dragonball was destroyed). Also Dragonball was a parody of Superhero's -which is why everything was so overly exagerated. Yes Dragonball characters destroying a planet with one finger (in a non-chalant way) has happened (and if people insist on bringing in Elseworlds Blue in it than the Brolly movie can be used to). All Goku does is eat and fight. That's technically it, he gets stronger as he fights. Post crisis wise Son and Kal are on a different level. When God Asks Son for help then you know he's a strong force to be reckoned with.
I can say that for quite a few DBZ characters. Keep in mind like I said DBZ is a parody of Superheroes. Your not suppose to really take that kind of stuff seriously. It's all good hearted nature (which what I'm hoping IC will bring back to the DC now that pre-crisis supes has returned). Great characters both of them and their innocence and good hearted nature are what make comics fun to begiin with and neither deserve to get bashed with such utter distaste.
Originally posted by jinzinYou can claim that all you want, but its still hyperbole until it's concretly proven.
oh please.. logic alone dictates the power levels to be higher than those pathetic estimates... goku would have had to have been at the very least at or above 2 million just to even touch form 4 frieza... goku was using kioken times 20 and was still getting the bajeezus beat out of him... so a frieza not at 50% power was kicking the crap out of goku at 20million (low estimate)... twice that ALONE put's frieza into the 40million range....is dbz inconsitent? yes.. do these powerestimate make sense? hell yes... do dbz characters have enough power to take out solar systems? OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAH...
you can calim hyperbole all you want.. but these guys have machines that display power levels.. so I would think frieza to understand his own quite well.... and king kold new he was more powerful than a solar system.. why the **** would he say that to himself when trunks killed him if he was just making it up?...
if anything the use of majin vegeta not blowing up the world but assuming it was due to lack of effort on his part is the most B.S. thing of all here.. GOKU made a blast that was TIMES the size of that during the last episode of dragonball vs. piccolo... goku was at a power level lower than 1,000 hmmmmm interesting....
anyway.. if wonder woman can give superman a good run, supes will be hard pressed (extremely hard pressed at that) to take out goku...
Can they take out a solar system in one blast?
HYYYYYYYPPPPPPPEERRRRBOOOOLEEEEEEE
Trash talk is not admissible as evidence.
Superman>Double Blackhole>=Microblackhole>Blackhole>Solar system destruction>Planet destruction>DBZ character
oh please.. logic alone dictates the power levels to be higher than those pathetic estimates... goku would have had to have been at the very least at or above 2 million just to even touch form 4 frieza... goku was using kioken times 20 and was still getting the bajeezus beat out of him... so a frieza not at 50% power was kicking the crap out of goku at 20million (low estimate)... twice that ALONE put's frieza into the 40million range....
Too bad those power levels are confirmed and are as canon as most of the sources on DBZ.
This isn't "Let me assign an arbitrary value for Goku's powerlevel so I can make him more admissable in a debate. Sorry it doesn't work that way.
is dbz inconsitent? yes.. do these powerestimate make sense? hell yes... do dbz characters have enough power to take out solar systems? OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAH...
Do those powerestimates make sense? No.
Tell me, are those power levels Linear? Exponential? Logarithmic? Something else?
I want you to answer that before you even mention the words "power," "level," and/or "estimates" again.
you can calim hyperbole all you want.. but these guys have machines that display power levels.. so I would think frieza to understand his own quite well.... and king kold new he was more powerful than a solar system.. why the **** would he say that to himself when trunks killed him if he was just making it up?...
No one used scouters past the Frieza saga.
And it has never been done. Theoretically a well placed blast in the sun that causes a cataclysmic nova could destroy the solar system as we know it. Does that mean a typical attack can do it? No, most attacks will just pass through the vacuum of space. And does that prove he can beat Supes? No, Supes has survived things of that level and higher.
if anything the use of majin vegeta not blowing up the world but assuming it was due to lack of effort on his part is the most B.S. thing of all here.. GOKU made a blast that was TIMES the size of that during the last episode of dragonball vs. piccolo... goku was at a power level lower than 1,000 hmmmmm interesting....
So you're saying Goku at 1000 is stronger than Majin Vegeta? Obviously not, that's called VISUAL CINEMATOGRAPHY for you.
anyway.. if wonder woman can give superman a good run, supes will be hard pressed (extremely hard pressed at that) to take out goku...
Why you hating on Wonder Woman? She has demonstrated ridiculous feats in her own right. You can't even prove that Goku can do so much as give Supes a blackeye.
But back to the topic at hand (which seems more like argument at hand) I'd have to go with Goku if he's fighting the post crisis one. Pre-Crisis one is technically god with a cape and he has an answer for everything. He's more pre-crisis than people may like to admit. Goku's that powerful. Goku died on purpose so he can learn a technique (death is different in DBZ... at least for Son it's an inconvience).
Post or Pre, he has shown feats superior to Goku's. Showing people he has defeated or contemporary isn't valid.
Superman has outsmarted and beaten Mr. Mxy, does that mean he's more powerful? Hell no.
What I don't get is the hatred I see for Son Goku here. I love both characters to death but man this borderline racism on this "jap shit" is just disheartening to hear fellow Superman fans say things like that. Goku is the Superman of Japan. his origin is virtually identical with the differences being Kal's wolrd was destroyed by natural means while Planet Vegeta was destroyed by Frieza (yes an example that a planet in Dragonball was destroyed). Also Dragonball was a parody of Superhero's -which is why everything was so overly exagerated. Yes Dragonball characters destroying a planet with one finger (in a non-chalant way) has happened (and if people insist on bringing in Elseworlds Blue in it than the Brolly movie can be used to). All Goku does is eat and fight. That's technically it, he gets stronger as he fights. Post crisis wise Son and Kal are on a different level. When God Asks Son for help then you know he's a strong force to be reckoned with.
When God asks Son he's strong?
You have NO IDEA how powerful the godlike entities of the DC universe than. There are at least several dozen entities that make the "god" of the DBZ world look like total buffoons.
And what does parady have anything to do with it? He still hasn't shown the feats that put him up with Superman, regardless if he was intended to be god or not. Darkseid was intended to be the Antithesis of God, that didn't turn out all that well.
I can say that for quite a few DBZ characters. Keep in mind like I said DBZ is a parody of Superheroes. Your not suppose to really take that kind of stuff seriously. It's all good hearted nature (which what I'm hoping IC will bring back to the DC now that pre-crisis supes has returned). Great characters both of them and their innocence and good hearted nature are what make comics fun to begiin with and neither deserve to get bashed with such utter distaste.
I've never felt Goku was a "great character." The character is poorly written and executed.
Originally posted by Illustrious
Too bad those power levels are confirmed and are as canon as most of the sources on DBZ.This isn't "Let me assign an arbitrary value for Goku's powerlevel so I can make him more admissable in a debate. Sorry it doesn't work that way.
by whom, where and when?
Originally posted by Illustrious
Do those powerestimates make sense? No.
actually they make perfect sense if you understand basic mathematical funedmentals.. 😕
Originally posted by Illustrious
And it has never been done. Theoretically a well placed blast in the sun that causes a cataclysmic nova could destroy the solar system as we know it. Does that mean a typical attack can do it? No, most attacks will just pass through the vacuum of space. And does that prove he can beat Supes? No, Supes has survived things of that level and higher.
again.. you can use simple mathematics to figure out that a blast from a 1,000 PL goku did x amount of damage.. then multiply the by a PL of 1 million (or numerically by 1,000 rather since 1,000x1,000 is the equivolent..) .... then use that as a calculation for what a character can do at that power.. then muliply that by a PL of 20 million... solar system doesn't look so tough after that...
Originally posted by Illustrious
So you're saying Goku at 1000 is stronger than Majin Vegeta? Obviously not, that's called VISUAL CINEMATOGRAPHY for you.
exactly so why is it only relivent to majin vegeta? 🙄
Originally posted by Illustrious
Why you hating on Wonder Woman? She has demonstrated ridiculous feats in her own right. You can't even prove that Goku can do so much as give Supes a blackeye.
who said I was hating on wonder woman? it's a known fact that her darksied and orion give superman fits in a fight.. goku's faster and more powerful (aside from omega beams) than any of them.. not to mention he's well above the 100 ton class mark...
I don't get the pic with Green Lantrern on it...what exactly did Supes do there?
The problem is that there did not that much happen in DB, they showed some of their feats but their strongest is never measurable because it only involves the fighters....if sups would fight agains another Supes all the tie and used all his power at him we would still not know what exactly the power is he has. But there is some evidence
First there is a Power Level System...it's linear by the way...it wouldn't make sense to use it any other way.......Exponetionally would be better for my side but it's just stupid to assume that.....
There is Buu destroying a Planet with one Ki Blast.....not nearly his full potential...at all...
There is Cell saying he has more than enough power to destroy the Solar System....trash talk?...maybe...but unlikely since it is agreed on by the Z Fighters.
Then there is the Genkidam...the most powerful Ki Blast ever in Mangas....and Buu withstanding it ......stronger than Two Blackholes? ....no proof of that...but maybe.....it's a possibility.....
Originally posted by Illustrious
Too bad those power levels are confirmed and are as canon as most of the sources on DBZ.This isn't "Let me assign an arbitrary value for Goku's powerlevel so I can make him more admissable in a debate. Sorry it doesn't work that way.
Do those powerestimates make sense? No.
Tell me, are those power levels Linear? Exponential? Logarithmic? Something else?
I want you to answer that before you even mention the words "power," "level," and/or "estimates" again.
No one used scouters past the Frieza saga.
And it has never been done. Theoretically a well placed blast in the sun that causes a cataclysmic nova could destroy the solar system as we know it. Does that mean a typical attack can do it? No, most attacks will just pass through the vacuum of space. And does that prove he can beat Supes? No, Supes has survived things of that level and higher.
So you're saying Goku at 1000 is stronger than Majin Vegeta? Obviously not, that's called VISUAL CINEMATOGRAPHY for you.
Why you hating on Wonder Woman? She has demonstrated ridiculous feats in her own right. You can't even prove that Goku can do so much as give Supes a blackeye.
Post or Pre, he has shown feats superior to Goku's. Showing people he has defeated or contemporary isn't valid.
Superman has outsmarted and beaten Mr. Mxy, does that mean he's more powerful? Hell no.
When God asks Son he's strong?
You have NO IDEA how powerful the godlike entities of the DC universe than. There are at least several dozen entities that make the "god" of the DBZ world look like total buffoons.
And what does parady have anything to do with it? He still hasn't shown the feats that put him up with Superman, regardless if he was intended to be god or not. Darkseid was intended to be the Antithesis of God, that didn't turn out all that well.
I've never felt Goku was a "great character." The character is poorly written and executed.
As for Goku being asked by God well that cockroach looking thing in the sky is Kami which is "god" in Japanese. I've already said my peice on the matter however I will say that I know how strong the DC universe gods/entities are. I have almost 20 years experience in DC comics and at one time purchased every single non-vertigo book DC put out. My post was written with the confidence I have in the material of both character universes. And also personally I think Son is a great character (in regards to the gods in DBZ yes they can be bufoonish but that doesn't make them any less powerful) and as for being poorly written and handled look no further than how Superman has been treated the past few years. As a diehard Superman fan I hate what's happened to him (which is why I'm praying to God "All Star Superman and IC will bring him back to the greatness that Superman IS -wat he should be). But like I said, I already said my peice and there is nothing I can add without being redundant.
Thank you all for your reading and commenting on my posts.
Later
Originally posted by jinzin
oh please.. logic alone dictates the power levels to be higher than those pathetic estimates... goku would have had to have been at the very least at or above 2 million just to even touch form 4 frieza... goku was using kioken times 20 and was still getting the bajeezus beat out of him... so a frieza not at 50% power was kicking the crap out of goku at 20million (low estimate)... twice that ALONE put's frieza into the 40million range....is dbz inconsitent? yes.. do these powerestimate make sense? hell yes... do dbz characters have enough power to take out solar systems? OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAH...
you can calim hyperbole all you want.. but these guys have machines that display power levels.. so I would think frieza to understand his own quite well.... and king kold new he was more powerful than a solar system.. why the **** would he say that to himself when trunks killed him if he was just making it up?...
if anything the use of majin vegeta not blowing up the world but assuming it was due to lack of effort on his part is the most B.S. thing of all here.. GOKU made a blast that was TIMES the size of that during the last episode of dragonball vs. piccolo... goku was at a power level lower than 1,000 hmmmmm interesting....
anyway.. if wonder woman can give superman a good run, supes will be hard pressed (extremely hard pressed at that) to take out goku...
I wouldn't sleep on WW crushing Goku either...it would probably be a better fight than him going against Supes. Here she is holding up a biblical chariot, the thing is huge, heavy, and incinerates mortal flesh on touch.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
I don't have much time to go at this, since I am leaving for work tight now, but Jinzin... the power levels come from DBZ.net. Look them up.
That'S not an official source though......I mean you are probably right, but you have to go by the Books...which DBZ.net seemingly did.