I haven't seen one cohesive and well -structured pro-Goku post yet. I've seen posts by you and Cresh showing all of Supes' feats complete with scans, pics, etc.
Most I've seen from Goku's side is one or two points that his supporters run with (And ultimately fail with) or a whole lot of trying to bring Supes down to Goku's level or using low-end feats to judge him entirely.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
I haven't seen one cohesive and well -structured pro-Goku post yet. I've seen posts by you and Cresh showing all of Supes' feats complete with scans, pics, etc.Most I've seen from Goku's side is one or two points that his supporters run with (And ultimately fail with) or a whole lot of trying to bring Supes down to Goku's level or using low-end feats to judge him entirely.
That's all they can do is try to decrease Superman power to ssj3 Goku's level, so that he can stand a better chance of losing. 😄
Originally posted by jinzinYou're doing the same thing the spiderman fans are doing in the vs wolverine threads.
dude.. that's pretty damned sad.. there's no need for such disrespect...what happened to you?
Originally posted by jinzin
grasping for straws? not at all.. I just think that goku's physical strength and durability are being completely undermined here.../Then put in the support beams 🙂No, we've already had people try to lower supes down with out dated evidence that is counteracted by newer events.Hyperbole and hearsay are insufficient.
[QUOTE=5206874]Originally posted by jinzin
I was simply making a point on goku's strength.. not saying he was going to be winning by out lifting/slugging supes... just thought I was bringing something to the table that hadn't been addressed before...Originally posted by jinzin
now...you keep assuming people to be dragging down superman to a level less than what he is..[quote]we already know that being in the 100 ton class is enough to stagger supes with punches
monkey plant and electricity hurts superman
Now why would I POSSIBLY think that?
Originally posted by jinzinOutdated. 🙂
but that's not the case.. we're using evidence on the character, how we've seen him presented..
Originally posted by jinzinI'm sorry if he's at a level greater than you want him to be. Goku's the one that hasn't once shown to be up to where you say he is. 🙂
I'm sorry but if he's presented at a level less than how you want him to be,
Originally posted by jinzinI'm affraid you wanting him to be lower doesn't make it true. How about instead of lowering Superman down from levels we've already shown him to be at, you show goku is at the levels you say he is.
that doesn't make it any less true when it's done.. and frequently at that...
Originally posted by jinzinOh so now it's pis because you don't like it?
what makes him escaping a black hole any more credible than any other PIS?
Hmm. . .
Originally posted by jinzinTHis coming from the man who tries to rationalize S vs FL? You just called the black hole feats pis.
I'm not trying to use the pis argument here..
Originally posted by jinzinContradicted your last statement.
all I'm saying is that you should probably consider that superman isn't about to do that 9 out of 10 times or anything.... no more than logan taking a nuke...
Originally posted by jinzinYour interpritation of supes, much like the spiderfans saying logan was begging for his life in any encounter with spiderman.
from what I've seen of supes,
Originally posted by jinzinHe holds back, Like the other superheros. If they didn't hold back Logan would have killed Peter.
that's not his standard of speed and power...
Originally posted by jinzin"No one is trying to lower superman." 😄
like I said.. superman gets punched by the likes of darksied, orion, lobo, batman,and etrigan, and on top of that,
Originally posted by jinzinLike when Wolverine has low showings that are glorified?
he was staggered by a bunch of puny lazers from some pathetic war worlders... you can't blame people for thinking that he might succumb again..
Originally posted by jinzinYou sound EXACTLY like a Spiderman fan now. 🙂
he's getting punched in the face every week.. he doesn't escape black holes every week..... there's a huge difference in consistency there..
Originally posted by jinzinit's more reliable than guestimates based off of lack of empirical knowledge.
now I know you're using JUST empiricle knowledge here.
Originally posted by jinzinWhich might level off and not have as strong a power increase as you think it does.
you but have to consider the fact that the power level sysytem is a linear system man..
Originally posted by jinzinWishful thinking.
it's self evident..
Originally posted by jinzinExcept for the fact that What you said about Superman is actually true about Goku, and not the other way around.
and bardock explained it perfectly...
Goku can destroy solar systems right? Vegeta's stronger than Goku right?
How come they failed to do that when they tried? 🙂
Originally posted by jinzinWhich still has yet to be shown exactly how that works, cause it doesn't seem to work out very well when those numbers aren't being called off after Freiza. . .
if you're going to ignore that, than there's no use in further debate as you're completey bypassing the staple LAW of the DBZ verse...
Originally posted by jinzinNo, that's reasoning over empirical knowledge, because you're discarding ther fact that that would be true of anything. the statue of liberty is as big as my thumb, until I get close to it. . . so that's opbviously not empirical knowledge.
as for empiricle knowledge over reasoning... the sun looks like it's the size of my finger tip... no one's been able to bring it closer to show me otherwise.. it must be the size of my finger tip....
Originally posted by dvampire
I know DD has gotten far more powerful than since his first encounter with Superman.What I was trying to prove is that Superman has taken strength greater than Goku's even at the end of DBZ. And Goku struggled with 40 tons after the Cell saga in his normal stat (when he was getteing ready for the tornament against Pikon), he had to go ssj. 😕
Yes, but that'S no problem since his normal state is not his fighting state....and he is way, way, way more powerful than that in SSJ...just look how he moved with these 40 tons....
This is going in circles. Look, Supes' side has shown multiple (and easily readible) scans, logical arguments and shown enough to put Supes way the hell up there.
Goku? His side is attacking small points, showing a lot of hearsay, and showing little to no evidence. Look, I'll respect your efforts in the debate but please, instead of arguing every little point show some scans and pics or reliable sources... none of this "Let's focus on one little aspect of Goku and use a vague determination of his power" or "let's assume Goku can compete with Supes and not show it directly". A picture is worth a thousand words, and a decent argument for your side is worth a few pictures at least.
Just once, I'd like to see in a single post or even two bck to back posts someone showing systematically and with cited sources, proof and scans or pics of Goku being able to win this fight. REMEMBER... this is not to determine who has a chance to win... hell, Lois Lane has a slim chance to beat Supes in her own way... that's not the point. The point is to prove who has the odds most in their favor. It's Superman. And it's looking to remain that way until you guys band together and make some good arguments and not try to nitpick.
No, you're wrong.
While this isn't an absolute science here, we can infer who is better from their respective feats and powers. Cyclops and Batman may operate in totally different realities, but they can be compared to a certain point. And that is enough to make a judgment. If you feel we cannot compare them, then step down and step away. This thread is for determining just that; it presupposes that we can make such a judgment.
Second, there is a lot of proof that Supes is capable of feats Goku is not. These feats both explicitly and implicitly show he is capable of higher endurance, strength, energy attacks and indeed is capable of outer space travel and fighting and surviving elements even as mighty as the sun.
Does this mean that Superman wins? As it stand now, YES!
Originally posted by Bardock42We've shown a very high power level for superman. the DBZ side hasn't matched.
You need to understand there is no way to proof that A DBZ man can win...but there'S none that Supes could win either.....the fact is that we don't know and can hardly determine the Power of DBZ Fighters....does that mean that Superman wins? ....NO.
What's more logical for a person who is shown to be stronger faster an more durable to win or one who has not shown that level of strength?
Currently Superman has the higher stats. Goku has yet to match that. And the Z characters have shown to not be up to the DBZ side's claims.
That is because Cyclopse and Batman aoperate in similar Universes....we don't know the real Power of a Genkidama...not even of a Kame Hae Ha...ok we have seen Ki Blasts doing more than Superman ever did...but we cannot really say how they would compare...we can to some extend..but soe of it is not explicitly said.....and the Hiogh End Feats of the DBZ Characters were never Measurable because they didn't occur anywhere we could compare it too.
Where? Show me one time where Superman Showed he could destroy a Planet......if he can't he cannot Harm Buui....never......you see again you only showed him being able to Take a Lot...we can't see how much he can Give....
No it doesn't...it means tat Superman..might not lose.....but not that he wins...how should he win?
Originally posted by Creshosk
We've shown a very high power level for superman. the DBZ side hasn't matched.What's more logical for a person who is shown to be stronger faster an more durable to win or one who has not shown that level of strength?
Currently Superman has the higher stats. Goku has yet to match that. And the Z characters have shown to not be up to the DBZ side's claims.
You're hopeless. Unwilling to accept valid Superman evidence but all too willing to accept DBZ hearsay and ridiculous bullshit as admissable evidence. And if we refute that, you argue they can't be compared. You've gone from being reasonable to ridiculous, Bardock. Please... stop arguing fallacies in circles.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
You're hopeless. Unwilling to accept valid Superman evidence but all too willing to accept DBZ hearsay and ridiculous bullshit as admissable evidence. And if we refute that, you argue they can't be compared. You've gone from being reasonable to ridiculous, Bardock. Please... stop arguing fallacies in circles.
Ok....whatever...just show me Superman can hurt Buu...show me just a little evidence..and I will reconsider.....as for now..I don't think Supes can hurt Buu..maybe Buu can't hurt Supes either...but that's a different thing....
Lol Buu can be hurt by physical attacks if they are strong enough.... also it is shown Buu can only take so much pain before being down for the count.... Unless you wanna say Mr. Buu (The Fat Buu) wasn't a Buu...
Superman side has already shown that Superman is stronger then most if not all characters in Dbz, while Dbz's side has shown no such proof... meaning as it stands right now "Superman" could hurt Buu.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Ok....whatever...just show me Superman can hurt Buu...show me just a little evidence..and I will reconsider.....as for now..I don't think Supes can hurt Buu..maybe Buu can't hurt Supes either...but that's a different thing....
Lmfao.
Janus: "Please stop arguing fallacies in circles."
Bardock: "Ok...whatever...
-argues fallacy in circles-"
Good job.
come on, if all every fanboy reads all the pages of this thread they don't need to see anymore proof, im a big fan of goku's but theres no proof at all that he is faster or stronger than supes, infact all the proof had pretty much gone to supes, the only reason this thread should stay open is to try set a world record of the longest thread of fanboyism vs proof, even at ss4 goku is no match
Originally posted by Whiteclipse
come on, if all every fanboy reads all the pages of this thread they don't need to see anymore proof, im a big fan of goku's but theres no proof at all that he is faster or stronger than supes, infact all the proof had pretty much gone to supes, the only reason this thread should stay open is to try set a world record of the longest thread of fanboyism vs proof, even at ss4 goku is no match
Thank you for being a fan of DBZ but still being able to say DBZ characters don't always win.