Originally posted by jinzin
yeah superman prime took that sundip for well over a hundred years bukko... so again.. SO WHAT?are you aware that superman is not 1,000 years old? 😕
Originally posted by jinzin
at this point I'd like to adress the fact that HE-MAN, a guy with ONLY superstrength going for him really, no super speed or anything to speak of almost killed pre-crisis supes.. yet your argument is that goku is slower than normal supes or can't touch him or something?pfffft.. riiiight.
Well He-Man is magically based and his strength grows to overpower his opponent. That is the nature of his power.
Originally posted by jinzin
sure he can, he takes energy all the time.. doesn't matter that people are giving it to him.. he IS infact taking it regardless...orrrr we could just go the nonsentient way.. goku made a spirit bomb using nearly completely non sentient life in his fight with frieza... there proven...
He can't take people's energy no matter how many times you say it, or you can post some scans and back it up, and goku's spirit bomb is based on the shinto religion which believes everything from the sky to rocks has a spirit/conscious it's called kami.
Originally posted by jinzin
sure it is, the number was posted by another member which I already quoted.. it is evidence your ignoring the fact doesn't mean the fact doesn't count...
Post it again .
Originally posted by jinzin
yeah superman prime took that sundip for well over a hundred years bukko... so again.. SO WHAT?are you aware that superman is not 1,000 years old? 😕
I'm quoting superman fans here.
Originally posted by MadMel
are you aware that, thnx to time travel, supes has over 1000 years of experience..now that i think about it...its kinda weird that he isnt instantly pwning every villain coming at him...anyways...
guess I'm not.. can someone explain to me how he has 1,000 years of experience without being 1,000 years old..
also need I remind you guys how old some of the afterlife tourny fighters are? they surely have thousands of years of experience.. does that make them better fighters than goku? no.. infact goku was picking apart people with more experience then himself when he was a child.. so did gohan, and trunks, and goten. etc etc etc...
Originally posted by Blue nocturne
He can't take people's energy no matter how many times you say it, or you can post some scans and back it up, and goku's spirit bomb is based on the shinto religion which believes everything from the sky to rocks has a spirit/conscious it's called kami.
Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Post it again .
maybe if I have more time to go back and look through these pages.. until then find it yourself... the burden of proof lies on you not me...
Originally posted by Blue nocturnewow.. so then you don't know...
I'm quoting superman fans here.
Superman wins. He's faster, way stronger, way more durable, and has far more stamina.
SSJ3 Goku won't last long in a fight against Supes, heck he spent the whole fight against Kid Buu trying to save energy because he loses it to fast.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=n7Y08MtkYsw&search=Dragonball%20z%20episode%20265
And IT whould be of little help, he'll just be wasting energy using that technique and whould be vunerble for attacks anyways if he tried it.
Originally posted by dvampire
Superman wins. He's faster, way stronger, way more durable, and has far more stamina.
superman's not faster or more durable...
dbz characters are strong enough to blow up planets at 16,000 PL
frieza's a few million times stronger than that by the end of the frieza saga... and these characters are going blow for blow... more durable? my ass...
stronger perhaps, but then again goku is far more powerful....
more stamina? that's entirely debatable.. most fights with superman end real quick.. DBZ characters fight for entire days straight.. the only time superman ever did that he wasn't in too good a shape.. in fact.. he died.
Originally posted by dvampirecause he was on a physical plain using limited energy as it was... 🤨
SSJ3 Goku won't last long in a fight against Supes, heck he spent the whole fight against Kid Buu trying to save energy because he loses it to fast. .
Originally posted by dvampirelittle help? it's what makes him FAR faster than superman....
And IT whould be of little help, he'll just be wasting energy using that technique and whould be vunerble for attacks anyways if he tried it.
Originally posted by jinzin
superman's not faster or more durable...dbz characters are strong enough to blow up planets at 16,000 PL
frieza's a few million times stronger than that by the end of the frieza saga... and these characters are going blow for blow... more durable? my ass...
stronger perhaps, but then again goku is far more powerful....
more stamina? that's entirely debatable.. most fights with superman end real quick.. DBZ characters fight for entire days straight.. the only time superman ever did that he wasn't in too good a shape.. in fact.. he died.
cause he was on a physical plain using limited energy as it was... 🤨
little help? it's what makes him FAR faster than superman....
and how is he vulnerable to attacks if he tries it? care to elaborate?
Superman wins. He's faster, way stronger, way more durable, and has far more stamina (he can fight for weeks).
SSJ3 Goku won't last long in a fight against Supes, heck he spent the whole fight against Kid Buu trying to save energy because he loses it to fast. He could barely keep it togather (it's why Vegeta needed to step in). And they have never fought for entire days. Prove it? Anything Goku throws at Supes will be stoped, then Supes will easily finish the job with a punch.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=n7Y08Mtk...20episode%20265
And IT whould be of little help, he'll just be wasting energy using that technique and whould be vunerble for attacks anyways if he tried it. Why wasn't he using IT in his fight against Buu and Cell constantly like you're trying to claim?
So one question, can Goku perform IT at lightspeed? I mean can he can he IT thousands of times per second?
See, there are many characters that are faster than Supes because they can traverse dimensional rifts and such, so they can travel from A to B faster than Superman, but Superman has natural speed that exceeds thought by many times. Supes can move on an opponent and punch them many times over before the opponent even gets one complete thought through.
That is what I mean by Superman being faster than Goku.
Originally posted by jinzin
superman's not faster or more durable...dbz characters are strong enough to blow up planets at 16,000 PL
frieza's a few million times stronger than that by the end of the frieza saga... and these characters are going blow for blow... more durable? my ass...
stronger perhaps, but then again goku is far more powerful....
more stamina? that's entirely debatable.. most fights with superman end real quick.. DBZ characters fight for entire days straight.. the only time superman ever did that he wasn't in too good a shape.. in fact.. he died.
cause he was on a physical plain using limited energy as it was... 🤨
little help? it's what makes him FAR faster than superman....
and how is he vulnerable to attacks if he tries it? care to elaborate?
Originally posted by bean_machine
So one question, can Goku perform IT at lightspeed? I mean can he can he IT thousands of times per second?See, there are many characters that are faster than Supes because they can traverse dimensional rifts and such, so they can travel from A to B faster than Superman, but Superman has natural speed that exceeds thought by many times. Supes can move on an opponent and punch them many times over before the opponent even gets one complete thought through.
That is what I mean by Superman being faster than Goku.
why would he use IT at lightspeed? then it wouldn't be I.T. it would be lightspeed... 🤨
IT already transcends lightspeed.. why would he slow it down?
IT is faster than anything superman has displayed so goku is faster...
Another thing is that weak characters can't blow up planets by just creating a blast and making contact with the earth, it has to be focused to hit the center of the planet. How much power energy does it take to blow up the world by making a blast that hits the worlds surface and causes it to explode and completely gone?
I if all the nukes in the world were to go off, the planet would not be destroyed in the sense that it would be gone. Earth would still exist, but just be lifeless. But if all the nukes in the world were to go off in the center of the planet, well then that is another story.
Originally posted by bean_machine
Another thing is that weak characters can't blow up planets by just creating a blast and making contact with the earth, it has to be focused to hit the center of the planet. How much power energy does it take to blow up the world by making a blast that hits the worlds surface and causes it to explode and completely gone?I if all the nukes in the world were to go off, the planet would not be destroyed in the sense that it would be gone. Earth would still exist, but just be lifeless. But if all the nukes in the world were to go off in the center of the planet, well then that is another story.
well that depends on who you consider to be relatively week.. we see frieza in form 1 easily destroy an entire planet by throwing a deathball at it he made with his finger.. blowing the shit out of that planet had nothing to do with hitting the core of it...
then freiza gets over 2 million times stronger than that when he's in his 100% battle form.... and goku's powerlevel dwarfs that by the time trunks shows up, and then vegeta's power level dwarfs goku's by the time the androids show up, and then piccolo's dwarfs theirs by the time goku is healed, and then vegeta's dwarfs his by the time goku's in the chamber, and then goku's dwarfs his by the time he comes out, and then gohan dwarfs him by the time gohan turns ss2...
and so on and so forth.. I mean those previous estimates for how many planets these guys could kill were low at best.. I mean if frieza on his own could blow up planet vegeta with a finger and he got 2 million times stronger than that by the end of his saga.. then that's easily 2 million planets worth of destruction....
Originally posted by bean_machine
I mean Superman can easily blow up the world with little effort by just using heat vision and messing up the core of the world.
MAYBE... I mean in his fights with doomsday superman doesn't hold back his heatvision whatsoever.. he's pouring it on, now while doomsday does take the brunt of the attack there is a fair amount of heat vision that hits buildings, rocks, the ground etc.. and superman doesn't really blast a hole through them.. so him "easily" destroying the earth with heat vision alone is pretty questionable IMO.
Originally posted by jinzin
instant.. superman using superspeed is an action that needs to be preformed.. but I digress.. I think you misunderstand... goku can fight at I.T. speeds.. there's a clear example of this kind of technique in movie 6...
Movies aren't cannon, they're not in the same timeline as the manga. In that case I should use non cannon Superman versions then.
If Goku could just use IT in a fight like that, how could he NOT beat Cell or Buu, because he obviously has a Speed Advantage with it.
Fact is, IT takes a few seconds to use. It's a techinque, requires both acquiring a target and locking onto it, which is why you never see it used more than a special trick against Cell in the series. Trying to use it in combat would mean he'd have to lock onto the ki every time, put his fingers up to his head, and then actually complete the technique, which would take more time than simply moving.
Not only that, but he can't come out IT with a punch or a kick. He's never done that before; he's only ever come out of IT the way he went in, which normally means he has his fingers up to his head and he's towing a Kamehameha with him or a person. It really can't be used to strike someone, or he'd probably have already done it once before.
IT whould be useless in a fight. 🙂
Oh and they're not throwing planet destroying blasts (I mean as soon as even a small blast touch the planet, it should blow up), they charge their blasts forcing it threw the planet (with a Kamehameha wave or any other special moves that can be charged).
Superman wins. He's faster, way stronger, way more durable, and has far more stamina (he can fight for weeks).
SSJ3 Goku won't last long in a fight against Supes, heck he spent the whole fight against Kid Buu trying to save energy because he loses it to fast. He could barely keep it togather (it's why Vegeta needed to step in). And they have never fought for entire days. Prove it? Anything Goku throws at Supes will be stoped, then Supes will easily finish the job with a punch.
Originally posted by dvampirenon cannon superman versions HAVE been being used in this thread in case you haven't been made aware.. in any case.. I'm well aware that the movies are not canon evidence.. but it does illustrate how goku can use a power that we already know he has...
Movies aren't cannon, they're not in the same timeline as the manga. In that case I should use non cannon Superman versions then. [/url]
Originally posted by dvampire
If Goku could just use IT in a fight like that, how could he NOT beat Cell or Buu, because he obviously has a Speed Advantage with it.
Originally posted by dvampire
Fact is, IT takes a few seconds to use. It's a techinque, requires both acquiring a target and locking onto it, which is why you never see it used more than a special trick against Cell in the series. Trying to use it in combat would mean he'd have to lock onto the ki every time, put his fingers up to his head, and then actually complete the technique, which would take more time than simply moving.
you just contradicted the hell out of yourself right there.. more time then simply moving? hands to his head? you JUST used the cell fight as an example where he negated both of those things...
in any case the only time goku's shown to take a while to I.T. was to either go VERY far away or RIGHT AFTER he learned it.. never again and never since has he had trouble using I.T. to go short distances.. hell he didn't even take that long to go grab piccolo and tien..
the"fact is" he can fight in I.T. superman can't... superman loses..
Originally posted by dvampire
Not only that, but he can't come out IT with a punch or a kick. He's never done that before; he's only ever come out of IT the way he went in, which normally means he has his fingers up to his head and he's towing a Kamehameha with him or a person. It really can't be used to strike someone, or he'd probably have already done it once before.[/url]
coput... if superman could become intangible when he was fighting batman he would have probably done it once or twice before... you see where that logic faulters?
as for the other crap.. I refer to my post which I already quoted in regards to that.