Originally posted by DizzleFeats are howwe know what they are capable of. They let us know, how, when and where they gained the ability to do something they "should" be able to do.
See, he uses the same logic as me. He figures out how powerful Goku should be, not by feats.
Superman should be able to do a hell of a lot more than goku because Superman is strong enough to pull himself out of a double black hole.
How do we know he's strong enough? He did it.We have a feat showing him doing it.
How do we know what goku "should" be able to do? We see him doing it or something like it.
A character saying this or that is meaningless, as characters lie.
Originally posted by DizzleMathmatical standpoint?
You two go solely by feats, and basically disregard the mathematical standpoint.
You don't have enough information to use that.
Goku's power level is 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 is meaningless since we don't know supe's power level. Certainly if he's strong enough to pull away from a double black hole he's gotta have an incredible power level. He might very well be goku's power level OR he could be Goku's power level to the power of goku's power level.
Originally posted by DizzleOne is incomplete, another is more complete.
Both are arguable, they just follow two different lines of thinking.
We can't compare numbers, because they are a representation of something, something that we don't have.
We can compare feats, to see what these guys can do.
If one can lift 5 pounds and the other can't, then the one that CAN is obviously stronger.
Originally posted by DizzleDon't really see a reason for it too. We have illreagular shaped satilites that orbit the sun. And why did it explode?
And planets die if enough damage is done to them. Frieza shot an energy ball almost to the core of the planet, but not quite. The planet began crumbling and eventually exploded. You don't think that if someone blew a hole 3/4 of the way to the Earth's core that it would explode?
What was the scientific reason? It's not like it's a balloon.
Originally posted by DizzleWhich isn't the case with DBZ. They seem to run off of a HP system.
Detonating a big blast in the core would do it faster, but planets don't run on a hit point system. You need a damn big blast to blow it up.
Originally posted by DizzleA DBZ planet? With ease. Just blast down 3/4's of the way and boom.
Hey Cresh, do you think Superman could honestly blow up a planet in one shot? Please say yes, I need a good laugh...
A DC planet or Real one? No, probably not.
[QUOTE=4587733]Originally posted by Creshosk
[B]
Superman should be able to do a hell of a lot more than goku because Superman is strong enough to pull himself out of a double black hole.
Certainly if he's strong enough to pull away from a double black hole he's gotta have an incredible power level.
Superman is a physical guy his body is tough. That's like saying if Raditz' body went through a double black hole that he could beat SS4 Goku just because he has a tough body.
A DBZ planet? With ease. Just blast down 3/4's of the way and boom.
A DC planet or Real one? No, probably not.
How exactly would Superman blast 3/4 of the way? That crappy laser vision wouldn't be able to do that.
You guys say that Superman is so strong but yet when fighting a villain he gets punched an flys through the air. He can take a double black hole but he can't take a punch? That would mean the villains he fight could also take a double black hole and more. But they can't so they shouldn't be able to knock him through the air.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Superman should be able to do a hell of a lot more than goku because Superman is strong enough to pull himself out of a double black hole.
Goku's power level is 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 is meaningless since we don't know supe's power level. Certainly if he's strong enough to pull away from a double black hole he's gotta have an incredible power level. He might very well be goku's power level OR he could be Goku's power level to the power of goku's power level.
It's time for Black Hole education. It doesn't matter how strong you can't PULL yourself out of a black hole like its a giant toilet. A black consists of a outer event horizon, a inner event horizon, and a singularity. If you are in the OEH you can still get out, but if you are in the IEH then you can't escape because the gravity of the singularity would pull you in. The bigger the black hole the smaller the gravity. A double black hole is weaker than one small black hole. To escape a black hole you'd have to be traveling at the speed of light squared. A double black hole is stronger than a regular normal sized black hole. So you'd have to be traveling at the speed of light to the 4th power to esacape it. You'd have to be traveling at the speed of light to the 5th power to escape a small black hole. So Superman was traveling at the SOL^4 to escape.
But The Flash is faster than Superman but he can't travel that fast so what does that leave us with. That means "Superman escaped a double black hole" is null and void. :-)Bottom line Goku wins.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW CRESHOSK?
Originally posted by theobvious
Dude you just posted the worst thing in history. Superman could beat Goku without his Super-Strength? That's crazy talk.
You misunderstood what I was saying. The guy said that Supes can't fight without his powers. I just wanted to prove that Supes is a great fighter without his power. 🙂
Originally posted by theobvious
It's time for Black Hole education. It doesn't matter how strong you can't PULL yourself out of a black hole like its a giant toilet. A black consists of a outer event horizon, a inner event horizon, and a singularity. If you are in the OEH you can still get out, but if you are in the IEH then you can't escape because the gravity of the singularity would pull you in. The bigger the black hole the smaller the gravity. A double black hole is weaker than one small black hole. To escape a black hole you'd have to be traveling at the speed of light squared. A double black hole is stronger than a regular normal sized black hole. So you'd have to be traveling at the speed of light to the 4th power to esacape it. You'd have to be traveling at the speed of light to the 5th power to escape a small black hole. So Superman was traveling at the SOL^4 to escape.But The Flash is faster than Superman but he can't travel that fast so what does that leave us with. That means "Superman escaped a double black hole" is null and void. :-)Bottom line Goku wins.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW CRESHOSK?
That your a fanboy and that you can't except when your character is beaten. SSJ3 Goku counld barely lift halve a city and ssj4 Goku struggled pushing a building. Goku whouldn't come close to escaping a black hole.
Originally posted by theobvious
You guys say that Superman is so strong but yet when fighting a villain he gets punched an flys through the air. He can take a double black hole but he can't take a punch? That would mean the villains he fight could also take a double black hole and more. But they can't so they shouldn't be able to knock him through the air.
Supes with toe to toe with a guy that crushes stars with his bare hands and won. One punch from Superman and anybody from DBZ/GT will be KOed. 😐
Originally posted by dvampire
That your a fanboy and that you can't except when your character is beaten. SSJ3 Goku counld barely lift halve a city and ssj4 Goku struggled pushing a building. Goku whouldn't come close to escaping a black hole.
Originally posted by theobvious
Read the post again. I never said Goku could escape a black hole, even though he can. Using Instant Transmission. Don't say that Goku wouldn't have time to put his two fingers on his forehead because he doesn't have to. Give me a reason why Goku can't beat Superman.
Strength- ssj3 Goku struggled with a lifting halve a city (manga only) and ssj4 Goku struggles with a building; Goku is far less powerful than Supes, his hits won't even hurt Supes. Supes lift small moons with ease, and push planets with light speed engines going against him. Supes stronger.
Speed- ssj4 Goku couldn't out beat Omega Shinrons energy blast. Supe out raced a photon, went around the equator in a second, and travels at light speed. Supes is faster.
Durablity- ssj3/4 Goku get hit by attacks far less than what Supes whould do to him. Supes has taken star destroying attacks, survived a black hole, worm hole, survived a sun eater at ground zero and lots more. Superman is more durable.
Stamina- ssj3/4 Goku takes up way too much energy. Supes has way better stamina.
Supe wins. 👆
Originally posted by theobvious
How does Superman beat enemies that have beaten him before?
As far as I know Superman doesn't train to make himself stronger.
Supes has trained in Kryptonian MAs, has gotten trainning from Mongul II, Batman, Wonder Woman, and has been fighting all his life, plus hes always out stoping enemies so hes always at the top of his game. He's no amature in fighting. 😐
QUOTE=4595310]Originally posted by dvampire
Strength- ssj3 Goku struggled with a lifting halve a city (manga only) and ssj4 Goku struggles with a building; Goku is far less powerful than Supes, his hits won't even hurt Supes. Supes lift small moons with ease, and push planets with light speed engines going against him. Supes stronger.
Speed- ssj4 Goku couldn't out beat Omega Shinrons energy blast. Supe out raced a photon, went around the equator in a second, and travels at light speed. Supes is faster.
Durablity- ssj3/4 Goku get hit by attacks far less than what Supes whould do to him. Supes has taken star destroying attacks, survived a black hole, worm hole, survived a sun eater at ground zero and lots more. Superman is more durable.
Stamina- ssj3/4 Goku takes up way too much energy. Supes has way better stamina.
Supe wins. 👆 [/QUOTE]
Strength- While Goku isn't as physically strong as Goku his ki is overwhelmingly strong. After nearly expending all his energy on fighting Cell Goku could still destroy Earth. So being a thousand times stronger would mean he could easily destroy the sun which is the source of Superman's power. But he wouldn't have to because he would just blast Superman to pieces.
Speed-Isn't Omega Shenron the evil version of a wish granting dragon? Well anyway Goku can zanzoken anywhere. Superman can't sense ki so in a fight Goku could just zanzoken to places and attack Superman just like when he hid underwater and tricked Frieza. Speed nullified.
Durability-Didn't Goku fight the evil version of the Eternal Dragon and win?
Stamina-See Above mentioned Eternal Dragon.
Originally posted by theobviousYou're a fanboy for applying real world theoretical science to one fictional combatant, and not the other.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW CRESHOSK?
We've been over this, Superman is fictional so is not bound by real world sceince, theoretical or otherwise.
Goku likewise is also fictional and thus not bound to real world science theoretical or otherwise.
You cannot learn to fly through martial arts. You can not learn how to blow up mountains through martial arts. You can not destroy planets through martial arts.
It also tells me that you're a psuedointelectual for even attampting to use theoretical science as scientific fact.
You are away that all "facts" about black holes are theories at best? Educated guesses. Know why? Because none of this has been proven. We take the data that we can collect such as the behavior of the celestial bodies and what we can actually see, and then use inductive reasoning (that's fancy talk for "educated guess"😉 to come up with theories as to why and how the celestial bodies behave.
We have never been close enough to test any of what is believed about black holes. So nothing has been proven one way or the other.
And all of this is made moot merely by the fact that Superman is fictional and is thus not bound by any real world sciences.
Superman has pulled himself out of a double black hole.
Oh, and through manipulation of the Speed Force Flash can basically freeze time. So him not being able to move at infinite speeds is ridiculous.
😮💨
Originally posted by theobviousSuperman has survived a double black hole, now unless you're back peddling and going to insinuate that goku's energy beams are faster than C^4, Superman would be able to dodge any of goku's blasts. 😉
Strength- While Goku isn't as physically strong as Goku his ki is overwhelmingly strong. After nearly expending all his energy on fighting Cell Goku could still destroy Earth. So being a thousand times stronger would mean he could easily destroy the sun which is the source of Superman's power. But he wouldn't have to because he would just blast Superman to pieces.
Originally posted by theobviousYou'd still have to hit him, and the instant that superman became aware of goku's attack (probably because Goku would kiai) he could dodge at C^4. 🙂
Speed-Isn't Omega Shenron the evil version of a wish granting dragon? Well anyway Goku can zanzoken anywhere. Superman can't sense ki so in a fight Goku could just zanzoken to places and attack Superman just like when he hid underwater and tricked Frieza. Speed nullified.
Originally posted by theobviousSuperman survived a double black hole. 🙂
Durability-Didn't Goku fight the evil version of the Eternal Dragon and win?
Originally posted by theobviousSee above mentioned double black hole. 😉
Stamina-See Above mentioned Eternal Dragon.